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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Rafin said:
My personal reason was that I didn't want it exposed or visible to the local dragon population. But I guess a squat underground tower could have been possible? *shrug* I made it an altar and got no arguments in favor of a different size category. Everyone was just arguing wether dragon or no dragon.
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I just don't want mathy to be a one tower pony.
 
The obvious solution here is just to turn everyone in the Empire into a dragon. Not only will it solve the problem of the transformee turning on their own kin, it will also make it easy for the state to destroy all its enemies in general.

Also, no one will need to spend money on clothes anymore.
 
Rafin said:
My personal reason was that I didn't want it exposed or visible to the local dragon population. But I guess a squat underground tower could have been possible? *shrug* I made it an altar and got no arguments in favor of a different size category. Everyone was just arguing wether dragon or no dragon.
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There were also things like mobility and, for me at least, the fact that a tower would be unwieldy since we would have to fit a dragon in it and have easy ways in and out. An altar, on the other hand is probably shaped to avoid that. Though I do have to admit a Tower would probably allow for more regular usage, which would be interesting.
Also, just thinking, but without an active time-limit on when the dragon turns back—assuming that's still true—wouldn't it theoretically be possible to just stack uses, so long as the time between isn't too long? Like, sure, if it takes a week or a month between uses, that'd be bad, but what if it only takes a day to recharge? If we just waited a day or two, we could theoretically gather two or three dragons to use at once. Of course, this only works for offenses, since defenses are rarely that lenient with time, but it's a thought.
 
Ericwinter said:
There were also things like mobility and, for me at least, the fact that a tower would be unwieldy since we would have to fit a dragon in it and have easy ways in and out. An altar, on the other hand is probably shaped to avoid that. Though I do have to admit a Tower would probably allow for more regular usage, which would be interesting.
Also, just thinking, but without an active time-limit on when the dragon turns back—assuming that's still true—wouldn't it theoretically be possible to just stack uses, so long as the time between isn't too long? Like, sure, if it takes a week or a month between uses, that'd be bad, but what if it only takes a day to recharge? If we just waited a day or two, we could theoretically gather two or three dragons to use at once. Of course, this only works for offenses, since defenses are rarely that lenient with time, but it's a thought.
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I'm going to asusme that for game balance purposes we can't stack uses, either the recharge time is too great or the risk is too great for anything other than a life or death emergency to use at all.
 
DragonParadox said:
I'm going to asusme that for game balance purposes we can't stack uses, either the recharge time is too great or the risk is too great for anything other than a life or death emergency to use at all.
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Probably. Oh, I know, we could probably make guesses based on the Eye and how it works. Wasn't it something like once a day if you're not a grey wizard? Or something else?
... though that does remind me that Mathilde can technically use all the big scary magic items near constantly since she can channel the necessary wind herself without difficulty. Maybe we should see about getting Belegar to hire an Amber wizard just in case.
 
BoneyM said:
Moderately Complicated
The Wilds Undisturbed: You and several touched creatures can move freely through wilderness and leave no trail.
Leaf Fall: Spinning leaves partly conceal you, making it hard to aim ranged attacks at you for several minutes.
Earth Gate: You sink into the earth and reappear on another nearby patch of earth.
Father of Thorns: Thornbriars grow in a large area of earth, causing damage and hindering movement for several minutes.
River's Whisper: You commune with the spirit of a river and receive general answers to questions. Long casting time.
Vital Growth: A plant you concentrate on grows very rapidly, at a rate of about one year per hour spent casting.
Wood Shape: Touched willing creature takes the form of a personality-appropriate tree for several hours.
Spring Bloom: Ensures the fertility of a field or creature. Very long casting time.
Trees' Rustle: You commune with the spirit of a tree and receive general answers to questions. Extremely long casting time. Trees talk slowly.
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@BoneyM this list is missing Summer Heat.
 
Ericwinter said:
Probably. Oh, I know, we could probably make guesses based on the Eye and how it works. Wasn't it something like once a day if you're not a grey wizard? Or something else?
... though that does remind me that Mathilde can technically use all the big scary magic items near constantly since she can channel the necessary wind herself without difficulty. Maybe we should see about getting Belegar to hire an Amber wizard just in case.
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No, the eye can fire continuously off its batteries for days. That is a bit of apples and oranges though. This is and independent super unit.
 
DragonParadox said:
No, the eye can fire continuously off its batteries for days. That is a bit of apples and oranges though. This is and independent super unit.
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Maybe? I mean, I'm sure Boney will find a way to make it work, I would be perfectly happy with the system being un-gameable, it just seems like an obvious oversight that we could cast a big spell like the Tower uses over and over again while a single transformation wouldn't be able to. Unless the Eye actually uses less raw magical power—which could be a thing since it's technically not a Battlemagic spell despite its size, and this is—it would come off as a little bit odd. Also, considering that the tower basically let us obliterate a massive army in an instant and turned the million-plus Waaagh into a pushover, defining what counts as game breaking is kinda difficult.
If nothing else I figure Boney can look at my random theories and hypotheticals before he starts writing and use them to cover any obvious loopholes where necessary.
 
Ericwinter said:
Maybe? I mean, I'm sure Boney will find a way to make it work, I would be perfectly happy with the system being un-gameable, it just seems like an obvious oversight that we could cast a big spell like the Tower uses over and over again while a single transformation wouldn't be able to. Unless the Eye actually uses less raw magical power—which could be a thing since it's technically not a Battlemagic spell despite its size, and this is—it would come off as a little bit odd. Also, considering that the tower basically let us obliterate a massive army in an instant and turned the million-plus Waaagh into a pushover, defining what counts as game breaking is kinda difficult.
If nothing else I figure Boney can look at my random theories and hypotheticals before he starts writing and use them to cover any obvious loopholes where necessary.
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The simple asnwer would be for the limiting factor not to be the amount of magic at all but the risk of casting the spell at all. Basically make it unpalatable outside of an emergency for other reasons than magic availability.
 
Alratan said:
I think there are suggestions in some sources that different High Magic spells have different amounts of each Wind in depending on the specifics of the spell. Not all High Magic might have all the Winds in as well.
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I'd argue there's a difference between using Qhaysh to cast a spell (which might drain more or less of certain winds from an area) and creating actual Qhaysh, something I believe requires exactly equal amounts of all 8 Winds.

Ericwinter said:
Maybe? I mean, I'm sure Boney will find a way to make it work, I would be perfectly happy with the system being un-gameable, it just seems like an obvious oversight that we could cast a big spell like the Tower uses over and over again while a single transformation wouldn't be able to. Unless the Eye actually uses less raw magical power—which could be a thing since it's technically not a Battlemagic spell despite its size, and this is—it would come off as a little bit odd. Also, considering that the tower basically let us obliterate a massive army in an instant and turned the million-plus Waaagh into a pushover, defining what counts as game breaking is kinda difficult.
If nothing else I figure Boney can look at my random theories and hypotheticals before he starts writing and use them to cover any obvious loopholes where necessary.
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The Eye also has the advantage of having been built into a set of Towers which already gathered Ulgu anyway. And I think the firing time is still limited. It's something like an hour per day of charging, with a non-wizard in the seat IIRC.
 
So, I would not like to do commotions that often going forward as projects.

while 'dragons!' was a fun one off, it doesn't have the same feel as the Eye.

and I think its because we bought it, not made it.

yes we got a lot of help with the Eye from a lot of people, but it was still our brain-baby.

the altar... its fine for something someone else made and for a small project... but I would like to be more hands-on with future stuff even if its more of an ap sink.
 
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DragonParadox said:
The simple asnwer would be for the limiting factor not to be the amount of magic at all but the risk of casting the spell at all. Basically make it unpalatable outside of an emergency for other reasons than magic availability.
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That would work too, yeah. I also just like to sometimes imagine things even if it'll probably never happen just for the fun of it. I mean, it would be awesome to have three or so dragons to throw at our enemies, unlikely as it is to ever happen.
Of course, there's also the thought that even if we could technically throw dragons at surrounding Karaks, it wouldn't do nearly as much good as we might wish since there's not really the population for regular conquests. Sure, it would clean out some threats, but we couldn't even hold the territory for long. That's a much larger-scale balancing though, so it might not matter much.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
I'd argue there's a difference between using Qhaysh to cast a spell (which might drain more or less of certain winds from an area) and creating actual Qhaysh, something I believe requires exactly equal amounts of all 8 Winds.
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As I understand it, Qhaysh does not exist as an independent thing. It's a process, a way of safely casting spells that are composed of more than one Wind at the same time, not something like a Wind of Magic.

A Qhaysh spell is like a beautiful masterpiece of a painting using brushstrokes of many colours that don't overlap. Each Wind retains it's own independent and distinct identity while contributing to the greater than the sum of its parts result of the overall spell. The fact that the Winds aren't touching and medling is why it isn't Dhar. Different paintings use different colours of paints in different proportions.

As a result, Qhaysh only 'exists' in the form of active spells and enchantments cast or created using that method, in the same way that say, the Impressionist art style only physically exists in the form of the painting from that school.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
So, I would not like to do commotions that often going forward as projects.

while 'dragons!' was a fun one off, it doesn't have the same feel as the Eye.

and I think its because we bought it, not made it.

yes we got a lot of help with the Eye from a lot of people, but it was still our brain-baby.
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So you're saying that next time, you want us to develop a superweapon that only we could make, based on resources that only we have access to at the moment? Luckily, that's something we very easily can do! We still have that thing we got way back in Stirland we can use as a basis for some really impressive magics.

And yes, I know fully well that you and I are thinking of two entirely different resources right now, but that's fine, there's room for both of us here.
 
Omegahugger said:
So you're saying that next time, you want us to develop a superweapon that only we could make, based on resources that only we have access to at the moment? Luckily, that's something we very easily can do! We still have that thing we got way back in Stirland we can use as a basis for some really impressive magics.

And yes, I know fully well that you and I are thinking of two entirely different resources right now, but that's fine, there's room for both of us here.
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I mean, if we're going for things only Mathilde can do, it might be nice to make a Theurgy project once we get that figured out. Or maybe we should work on a Multi-wind project? That might be nice.
 
Omegahugger said:
Strictly speaking, Necromancy uses the combined power of multiple winds.
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Necromancy uses the degenerated power of multiple Winds. It's not the same. Besides, I've yet to see any really interesting ideas for how different spells might play off each other, at least in a mega-project, and as someone only loosely aware of the lore, I'm curious. That might be more my fault than anything though.
 
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