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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Klaus said:
I had two thoughts. The gatling gun isn't quite a megaweapon, but damn if it isn't deadly:
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Ratling Gun

The Ratling Gun is the latest and perhaps most powerful weaponry Clan Skryre has ever invented, a large multi-barrelled death-dealing machine that has the potential to change the very face of warfare in favour of the Skaven race. It can fire up to 100 bullets per minute using its multiple...
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Anything that uses the phrase " ungodly amount of firepower" has my attention.

It works well underground( it's arguably more effective in tight tunnels) and is very effective against swarming enemies, and that's basically K8P's biggest threat right now. Overland threats are...less threatening these days. It normally uses a two man team, but we can also have Johann carry it for us, if we want.
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The problem is, the Ratling gun's ability to deliver full automatic fire comes from exploiting magical properties of warpstone, which are unsafe for us to use.

To reverse engineer a purely mechanical weapon capable of doing the same thing (the real life Gatling gun), we'd need to fulfill broadly the same condition that Gatling needed to fulfill: mass produced, highly uniform brass cartridges for firearms.

The dwarves don't have that kind of technology at that level of precision at the moment, IMO.
 
Simon_Jester said:
The problem is, the Ratling gun's ability to deliver full automatic fire comes from exploiting magical properties of warpstone, which are unsafe for us to use.

To reverse engineer a purely mechanical weapon capable of doing the same thing (the real life Gatling gun), we'd need to fulfill broadly the same condition that Gatling needed to fulfill: mass produced, highly uniform brass cartridges for firearms.

The dwarves don't have that kind of technology at that level of precision at the moment, IMO.
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Even if they did, they don't have, and possibly will never have, the ability to produce them in any large numbers. Dwarfs don't do industrialization and mass production, they're artisans at heart.
 
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I think people are starting to lean towards 'crazy awesome' in regards to using magic, getting too caught up in what we can do and not thinking about whether or not we should. We are going to deliver to the Dwarves a magic alter that will turn somebody into a dragon, by using well-known as unreliable and dangerous magic which Dwarves almost as a whole despise, and only a few reluctantly admit as be dangerous but situational useful. This reeks the same as 'let's try to enshrine the god of thieves as the patron god of our law enforcers'.

This is not going to be a great success, the Dwarves are not going to like this. At best they might tolerate it, but this might be the first time Belegor is going to have to pull us to the side and ask us WTF we were thinking. Instead of making a 'tried and true' weapon in a new tower, or some kind of magic AA missle launcher or flak cannon or other weapon, we need to get a volunteer human, because no dwarf will ever volunteer to have magic turn them into anything else (which is for the best because their innate magic resistance would mess with the spell i'm sure), and have them go through a dangerous, and I'm sure painful and gruesome, transformation to turn them into something to fight an Ice Dragon. And then they're going to have to fight the Ice Dragon.
 
Zedman7054 said:
I think people are starting to lean towards 'crazy awesome' in regards to using magic, getting too caught up in what we can do and not thinking about whether or not we should. We are going to deliver to the Dwarves a magic alter that will turn somebody into a dragon, by using well-known as unreliable and dangerous magic which Dwarves almost as a whole despise, and only a few reluctantly admit as be dangerous but situational useful. This reeks the same as 'let's try to enshrine the god of thieves as the patron god of our law enforcers'.

This is not going to be a great success, the Dwarves are not going to like this. At best they might tolerate it, but this might be the first time Belegor is going to have to pull us to the side and ask us WTF we were thinking. Instead of making a 'tried and true' weapon in a new tower, or some kind of magic AA missle launcher or flak cannon or other weapon, we need to get a volunteer human, because no dwarf will ever volunteer to have magic turn them into anything else (which is for the best because their innate magic resistance would mess with the spell i'm sure), and have them go through a dangerous, and I'm sure painful and gruesome, transformation to turn them into something to fight an Ice Dragon. And then they're going to have to fight the Ice Dragon.
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I mean, I didn't vote for it and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have trepidation, but....
The Dwarves are entirely capable of directing a bewildering and varied barrage at a dragon, should the need arise, and it makes no major difference to add a magical shot to that volley. What is needed is a reason for the dragon to expose itself to that barrage in the first place, and though you spent some time considering mental trickery to accomplish that, eventually you decided you needed a genuine motivation, one that did not require directly influencing the foe.
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Zedman7054 said:
I think people are starting to lean towards 'crazy awesome' in regards to using magic, getting too caught up in what we can do and not thinking about whether or not we should. We are going to deliver to the Dwarves a magic alter that will turn somebody into a dragon, by using well-known as unreliable and dangerous magic which Dwarves almost as a whole despise, and only a few reluctantly admit as be dangerous but situational useful. This reeks the same as 'let's try to enshrine the god of thieves as the patron god of our law enforcers'.

This is not going to be a great success, the Dwarves are not going to like this. At best they might tolerate it, but this might be the first time Belegor is going to have to pull us to the side and ask us WTF we were thinking. Instead of making a 'tried and true' weapon in a new tower, or some kind of magic AA missle launcher or flak cannon or other weapon, we need to get a volunteer human, because no dwarf will ever volunteer to have magic turn them into anything else (which is for the best because their innate magic resistance would mess with the spell i'm sure), and have them go through a dangerous, and I'm sure painful and gruesome, transformation to turn them into something to fight an Ice Dragon. And then they're going to have to fight the Ice Dragon.
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see i kind of like this in its own way.

having a failure or two will let us know what Belegors and the dwarfs line is.

edit: so expand on this.

up to now everything has been a crisis that made the dwarfs go 'whatever, as long as it works' when it comes to Mathys ideas. and Mathy has gotten used to operating in that environment.

i see this as a moment that will have Mathy and the dwarfs sit down and talk about whats the line in times of peace.
 
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If we made a perfectly conventional Tower to shoot down the dragon, it would just do what we've already seen it do and use the Underway. That's beyond the problem of getting a spell that both hits and does damage to the unstoppable killing machine.
 
Ericwinter said:
@Omegahugger the real question is, does Roswita even know Skaven are a thing? Like, I get it, Roswita is awesome, and I would like to see more of her just as much as you, if not more, but... there's little chance of her being read into the Conspiracy of Silence, since even as Abelhelm's spymaster we were unaware, and even if she was, getting this to appropriate authorities might actually be just a touch harder for her then for us, since she can't just wander in and hand it directly to several of said authorities personally.
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That really just makes things better, tbh

"Wait, the what? Mathilde, what is–"
"Can't chat, gotta go, have fun Rozzy"

Completely unrelated, I have decided that <:3 is a Mathilde kitty-face.
BoneyM said:
I've experienced similar. It's amazingly frustrating to write an entire chapter, and then wake up.
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I often feel relieved after waking up, when whatever boneheaded thing I did in my dreams never happened outside my head.
 
Ganurath said:
"I have the second best kind of good news!"
"...What's the second best kind of good news?"
"What would normally be 'really bad news,' but it's followed by 'but they don't know that we know.'"
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"... I mean, probably."
"Good qualifier."
065tdsa said:
If we made a perfectly conventional Tower to shoot down the dragon, it would just do what we've already seen it do and use the Underway. That's beyond the problem of getting a spell that both hits and does damage to the unstoppable killing machine.
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Our new battle-altar would also be defeated in that case, since our dragon wouldn't have magic to fit into tiny tunnels. I assume that was some sort of Hysh magic, I don't know, maybe dragons are just scaly cats

 
If Mathilde keeps chill enough to remind Belegar that this is a weapon of last resort in case an Emperor Dragon decides to kill everyone, I think things will be fine - because then the alternative is everyone dying, and the thread has discussed ad nauseam how Be A Dragon at least gives us a chance.

Follow it up with a conventional AA tower with our Penthouse action for less dire aerial assaults - which I'm pretty sure is the plan - and we will be just fine.

No, neither the Dwarves nor the Undumgi will buy into our meme magic and decide that dragons are wonderful answers to everything, but if we remember that the dragon altar is a contingency for a worst-case scenario, given all of the logical arguments we have for the plan, given the sheer weight of reputation we have to throw around in the most magically tolerant hold around, we'll be fine. Weapons of last resort are allowed to be distasteful.
 
Zedman7054 said:
I think people are starting to lean towards 'crazy awesome' in regards to using magic, getting too caught up in what we can do and not thinking about whether or not we should. We are going to deliver to the Dwarves a magic alter that will turn somebody into a dragon, by using well-known as unreliable and dangerous magic which Dwarves almost as a whole despise, and only a few reluctantly admit as be dangerous but situational useful. This reeks the same as 'let's try to enshrine the god of thieves as the patron god of our law enforcers'.

This is not going to be a great success, the Dwarves are not going to like this. At best they might tolerate it, but this might be the first time Belegor is going to have to pull us to the side and ask us WTF we were thinking. Instead of making a 'tried and true' weapon in a new tower, or some kind of magic AA missle launcher or flak cannon or other weapon, we need to get a volunteer human, because no dwarf will ever volunteer to have magic turn them into anything else (which is for the best because their innate magic resistance would mess with the spell i'm sure), and have them go through a dangerous, and I'm sure painful and gruesome, transformation to turn them into something to fight an Ice Dragon. And then they're going to have to fight the Ice Dragon.
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Absolutely agreed. The voterbase, and Mathilde by extension, have become overconfident due to the great string of victories we had and had become used to an enormous freedom in executing orders justified by the maxim "victory needs no explanation".

Conveniently forgetting that therein lies a very dangerous slippery slope, and that because we (and Mathilde) likes playing with fire we need to be doubly careful not to get burned.
 
Guile said:
Our new battle-altar would also be defeated in that case, since our dragon wouldn't have magic to fit into tiny tunnels. I assume that was some sort of Hysh magic, I don't know, maybe dragons are just scaly cats
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That's probably Dwarves building huge rooms and tunnels for the sake of it, actually. The Dragon used tunnels wherever it could fit and used spells to dig out the Skaven who hid where it couldn't.

Though considering Bok was programmed to recognize a Dragon as a guest, it may be that at least some of those rooms and tunnels were built deliberately to fit Dragons who came to K8P along with elven guests.
 
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Guile said:
Our new battle-altar would also be defeated in that case, since our dragon wouldn't have magic to fit into tiny tunnels. I assume that was some sort of Hysh magic, I don't know, maybe dragons are just scaly cats
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065tdsa said:
That's Dwarves building huge rooms and tunnels for the sake of it, actually. The Dragon used tunnels wherever it could fit and used spells to dig out the Skaven who hid where it couldn't.
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To give this context, the Great Hall of Karaz-a-Karak is something like a mile long. Dwarfs built big, when they were doing this, probably at least partially because they anticipated having a much larger population than they ever really reached.

065tdsa said:
Though considering Bok recognized a Dragon a guest, it may be that at least some of those rooms and tunnels were built deliberately to fit Dragons.
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Which would make sense considering Vala-Azril-Ungol was the Dwarf/Elf collab Karak, back when the Elven solution to military problems could literally be "drop a dozen dragons on it".
 
Regarding the Battle Altar of Endragoning, I suspect the "ugliness" will be in how it is recharged. Remember how the Seed can recharge off of a living body, or a number of dead ones? I have a sneaking feeling that it will require something unpalatable. Or, possibly, it simply will be a one-way thing... which Mathilde will be rather unhappy with subjecting people to.

As for other Fun Ideas... something that would probably take a bit more Enchanting knowledge, is setting up something that would maintain a flock of crows (or whatever corvids we have around) with Matrixes filled with Cloud of Confusion (Mathilde's mastery-variant of Universal Confusion), which could be commanded to swarm whatever target is required. Although... @BoneyM - does Mathilde think that casting something like Ghur's Master's Voice on an animal with a Ulgu-Matrix in it would cause Dhar?

If we wanted to get disturbingly conventional, Mathilde could always just enchant some ballista-bolts with, say, Mockery of Death (set to activate on contact after launch, so it just needs to hit), which if it succeeds would be very unpleasant for anything flying.

As for the idea of a Runic Talisman for whoever does get Dragoned, Kragg's Rune of Rancour that's on Mathilde's belt would be a good start.
 
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