chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Both of us, apparently (Who do I believe?
); the words are used interchangeably, upon further inspection.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
); the words are used interchangeably, upon further inspection.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Do note that it's an offer from Boney for someone to align with the interests of the Karak Ankor as a whole, not with K8P or Belegar in particular. Karak Izor or Karak Norn seems better candidates for Carcassonne to engage with, not being thousands of difficult miles away.
There's no guarantees we-in-Quest or we-Mathilde see anything visible out of this.
They could perhaps even ally with Karak Norn and their grudges in the current Bretonnian sabre-rattling against the Athel Loren Elves that we heard about...
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- Location
- Finland
My point is that the system has to work, because if it did not, Bretonnia would have fallen already.The thing is, as an Errant you are expected to travel and go abroad in order to achieve your Errand. While I have no doubt some of it's phoned in but I do think it's less than you might think. You need to accomplish your Errand to be landed, and Knights of the Realm are apparently the majority. You'll have some people putting the bare minimum in but your Errantry is going to be a competitive environment, there's only so much land to steward and I'd be amazed if your performance didn't factor into what kind of domain you were assigned. If you fail to achieve Knight of the Realm status you're pretty much screwed.
So yes, but I also think there's elements more reminiscent of a real competitive environment that children have been raised to compete in. Families have a vested interest in seeing their children have the better showing, for more lands in their dynasty, prestige, and to politically show off for their peers and rivals. If we're assuming reality intrudes and most people aren't trying to live up to grandiose ideals, they are trying to meet societal, familial, and cultural expectations and have a lot of motivations to do so.
Where Chivalry fails, the Japanese salaryman model does not
Now it might work only because there is an active goddess and her army of magical women tipping the scales, but it works.
Not sure what kind of quests the knight errants go for (save a princess, kill a troll, slay X number of orcs?), they can't be too impressive or they would run out of quests (unless, again, the goddess and her army of magical women are tipping thr scales), not everyone is going to succeed i guess, but enough do that the nobility can keep increasing in numbers (and possibly die in other interesting ways defending the realm).
I've kinda lost the plot of this tangent now, what were we talking about?
Personally, with very little information on Bretonnia (most of it from this thread), errantry sounds lot less like some huge quest, and more like mandatory military service in some ways, but with an Arthurian twist.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
At the same time, it'd be a bit weird for us to have this vote but for it to never actually come up in the quest.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Well, we've got a choice to pick something closer to home.
Don't put our choices on Boney. I'm not saying it's impossible we'll see Errant Knights in K8P... just that aligning with Dwarven interests could also be done by Carcassonne much more easily closer to home.
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- Pronouns
- It/They
Well then you should have voted for somewhere actually near by.
Like Khemri.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I'm going to bed, but this seems wrong.
They're disapproved of, but not discriminated against and don't have to pay taxes?
If they're disapproved of then it absolutely means they're are discriminated against you don't put a thing like that in presumably at least vaguely knowing the historical context around merchants and their relationship with the nobility and not have it mean something, warhammer is not that utopian and Brettonia certainly isn't. Habitually merchants were discriminated against by nobles throughout history, it was seen as a dirty profession and while there was rarely explicit laws against them, or even taxes instead they were forced to make "charitable donations" and "gifts" or risk having consequences (usually that would be thugs or sometimes knights depending on the century coming around to your house and beating the shit out of you.)
And to me this implies the system in Brettonia is the same, they have to give gifts in lieu of giving taxes because the nobles don't want to actively dirty their hands with trade directly, instead taking this gift taxation and in all likelihood, any merchant that doesn't do this is at best ejected at worst killed.
To what extent these "gifts" would encourage or disincentivise trade is unclear, it likely would depend a lot on the person in charge, the TLDR is that there are taxes on merchants and trade and the merchants likely suffer from discrimination, the degree of which likely depends on where they are, with city nobles knowing they have to put up with them.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
One of the suggested options was Hochland. I doubt he was unaware of the possibility of us picking something a distance away.
I mean, if you want to claim Khemri is an Imperial province, you are free to try, but I feel like Settra might have a few issues with that statement.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Again. Entirely our choice. Don't presume the world will bend to fit our whims. I'm sure Hochland has closer Dwarfholds they could work with, too.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
We can't vote for Khemri
TBF they've got some of the closest things to human dawi rangers, so not an entirely bad suggestion there.
But if we did see anything, (and it would be weird for a GM to make this kind of offer and not add it into the story in some narratively impacting way) it would be Knights Errants that would be what we would get, as 'they can be found anywhere in the Old World, sometimes to the regret of the natives.'
hell, that could be their Errant 'you bunch, go to karak norn of xxx years or perform yyy feat, group B, the same but it K8P, now group C one of your fathers is a duke so you get Karak Izor and... have to come back with one goblin head each...sigh...
- Location
- Aotearoa
I mean, a Bretonnian-Karak Norn war on the Athel Loren Elves would impact the narrative?
I'm just attempting to manage thread dreams of streams of knights marching for thousands of miles to reach K8P with a note of caution.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
No, he said "Tilean, Bretonnian, or Imperial".
We can't choose Maggrita, we can't choose Kislev, and we can't choose Khemri.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This is why my reservations about Carcassonne went down once I learned that Izor is its closest major hold. The fact that Izor is one of K8P's allies provides an obvious opening for plot hooks without twisting things in knots.
...oh man, Edda and Soizic are gonna have a lot to chat about.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Judging by the other examples, I think he went for the one for which it'd be the least likely in each category.
Edda: I thought the wizard was the craziest manling...
knight Errant: for glory! (dies doing something stupid for glory)
Soizic: I'm sorry.
Knight Errant2: My Turn! (dies doing that exact same thing.)
Soizic: I'm very sorry.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I could see dwarves drawing parallels to Slayers, and reaching some odd conclusions.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Tssh. Amateurs. I can see Dame Mathildes talk to the Knight Errants now.
"So, you want to be a Knight Errant? That's a fine thing.
... and better hope you get one of those luck gods tilting the odds in your favour.
In conclusion, try being lucky when doing something stupid for glory. Luck. That's what works for me."
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until they find out that the manling are expected to survive the shit they do.
- Location
- Australia
We've gotta be careful though, if more Dawi see just how quick Humans can breed and then routinely die in stupid ways they may just declare a species wide grudge against human birth rates.
Seriously though, Brets breed like rabbits and I can imagine some weird Dawi out there getting really mad about Knight Errants dying in stupid ways because it's a valuable waste of manpower/lives.
Seriously though, Brets breed like rabbits and I can imagine some weird Dawi out there getting really mad about Knight Errants dying in stupid ways because it's a valuable waste of manpower/lives.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think one thing this discussion of Ranald is missing is the randomness inherent in his nature. Ranald is perhaps the easiest god to invoke since like is almost always applicable, but also the riskiest, as instead of overt interventions he mostly just screws with people and it's not certain if he is going to help you. Even the example with the cutthroat thief includes the qualifier that he is "more likely" to be cursed by Ranald, not that his doom is now certain. Meanwhile, even someone he favors could, say, find all the prices on the equipment they want jacked up ten times because Ranald thought it was hilarious.
This is kinda obscured by the fact that Mathilde is a bit of an adrenaline junkie who's totally fine with her god answering prayers by pranking her, but it would be a real deal-breaker for me.
There's also in-universe uncertainty about where exactly the line is; examples in the book include a priest of ranald helping law enforcment catch a group of bandits who robbed food caravans also under the name of Ranald, merchants who pray to him as the gambler/dealer to ward off the night prowler, and a sect called the humble ones who believe that literally ANYTHING is fair game as long as your hand isn't on the weapon that kills someone.
Finally, the gods are very light on the correcting of their followers; there's a list of major fanatical sects which include the Humble Ones mentioned above, Morrites who consider doctors necromancers, the sigmarites who think every other god is secretly one of the 4, the Sons of Ulric who do nothing but actively diminish the political standing of their own cult because they believe they deserve to control it, and the only one of these groups that was noted to have a major systemic problem using the lore of their god is the Plague Wardens, a group of Shallayans who kill plague-infected people and burn down quarentine zones.
This is kinda obscured by the fact that Mathilde is a bit of an adrenaline junkie who's totally fine with her god answering prayers by pranking her, but it would be a real deal-breaker for me.
There's also in-universe uncertainty about where exactly the line is; examples in the book include a priest of ranald helping law enforcment catch a group of bandits who robbed food caravans also under the name of Ranald, merchants who pray to him as the gambler/dealer to ward off the night prowler, and a sect called the humble ones who believe that literally ANYTHING is fair game as long as your hand isn't on the weapon that kills someone.
Finally, the gods are very light on the correcting of their followers; there's a list of major fanatical sects which include the Humble Ones mentioned above, Morrites who consider doctors necromancers, the sigmarites who think every other god is secretly one of the 4, the Sons of Ulric who do nothing but actively diminish the political standing of their own cult because they believe they deserve to control it, and the only one of these groups that was noted to have a major systemic problem using the lore of their god is the Plague Wardens, a group of Shallayans who kill plague-infected people and burn down quarentine zones.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
So it might just be me listening to a lot of Sabaton and rewatching Girls Und Panzer....but anyone else think that it would be awesome if Adela in the future ended up building/acquiring a custom made Steam Tank with Dwarven modifications that she uses her magic to enable it to do insane stuff. Hell maybe she ends up finding other engineering inclined wizards and they form the entire crew with them using their magic to truly make the thing insane on the battlefield.
Actually how many people are needed to crew a Steam Tank anyway?
Actually how many people are needed to crew a Steam Tank anyway?