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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Glau said:
I like Qrech! He's been both skaven and interesting, and honestly we've gotten more character development and working from him than I ever would have guessed. I am unwilling to 'hand him off' to what's probably an execution, so if people are unwiling to keep him in a gilded cage then I'd argue for releasing him somewhere far away. Maybe with a trinket that'd help him against other skaven.

But as far as it goes, one is freedom, so he is as close to free as he has ever been. I'd like to push that towards full rehabilitation, even if I expect him to remain locked up forever. Honestly, a skaven librarian would be pretty cool.
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Glau, this is the Lima Syndrome talking, he is a prisoner of war and as far as we can tell a patriot.

if we let him go, he will go back to mourder and let them know that humans can in fact read Quickish, they will then start coding things and everything we did will be set back.

if we give him a inch, he will try to run away
 
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Glau said:
I like Qrech! He's been both skaven and interesting, and honestly we've gotten more character development and working from him than I ever would have guessed. I am unwilling to 'hand him off' to what's probably an execution, so if people are unwiling to keep him in a gilded cage then I'd argue for releasing him somewhere far away. Maybe with a trinket that'd help him against other skaven.

But as far as it goes, one is freedom, so he is as close to free as he has ever been. I'd like to push that towards full rehabilitation, even if I expect him to remain locked up forever. Honestly, a skaven librarian would be pretty cool.
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Shame Skaven have a lifespan of like ten days, though... You know, it's occurred to me that a very significant percentage of Qrech's life has been spent in our dungeon.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Glau, this is the Stockholm talking, he is a prisoner of war and as far as we can tell a patriot.

if we let him go, he will go back to mourder and let them know that humans can in fact read Quickish, they will then start coding things and everything we did will be set back.

if we give him a inch, he will try to run away
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You're thinking of Lima Syndrome, I think is what they're calling the opposite, but the general sentiment is accurate.
 
Honestly, Qrech may be useful to figure out whether Skaven evil is social programming or soul programming. He seems pretty decent, though that can be that he acts in order to get us to drop our guard.

I am also all for redeeming him, if that is possible, not because Lima syndrome, but because on my redeemability criteria, "social programming" is higher than "net evil generated". I do get, however, that our time may be better spent doing good elsewhere, which is why I will accept the fact that we may lack the time to redeem him if we get nothing out of it. We may get crucial Skaven info out of it tho.
 
While I am firmly against letting Qretch go, I am also firmly against killing him without a good reason and I don't consider "You have outlived your usefulness" to be a good reason for killing someone.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Glau, this is the Lima Syndrome talking, he is a prisoner of war and as far as we can tell a patriot.

if we let him go, he will go back to mourder and let them know that humans can in fact read Quickish, they will then start coding things and everything we did will be set back.

if we give him a inch, he will try to run away
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Which leaves us with the gilded cage or execution (by us or by proxy) choices. Which is yours?

Edit: I'm assuming gilded cage will require at least an every-other-turn AP. There's not much point in choosing otherwise, and we have made him our responsibility (and benefited from him.)
 
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Glau said:
Which leaves us with the gilded cage or execution (by us or by proxy) choices. Which is yours?

Edit: I'm assuming gilded cage will require at least an every-other-turn AP. There's not much point in choosing otherwise, and we have made him our responsibility (and benefited from him.)
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We hired someone to talk to the We, we can hire someone to keep Querch entertained, probably not a dwarf, but a human would be fine, there are plenty of Khazalid speakers around
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
honestly, I think we should just pass Qrech on to the college, we have got what we need from him.

spoken is something the college can work on from here. (I just don't see us getting far on a language that has a smell component anytime soon with the resource we have right now.)

we also don't have a supply of Skaven stuff anymore to give him, and the moment he figures out that mouder is dead and he is not helping us with morr and the others he is going to clam up.
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That's perfectly fine with me, if it's uncontroversial enough to get accepted. I really don't care what happens to Qrech, aside from 1. he stops taking up an AP and 2. the way that is accomplished isn't massively out of character like just walking up to the poor rat and saying 'you've outlived your usefulness' and murdering him, as an extreme out off left field example. But...

Glau said:
I like Qrech! He's been both skaven and interesting, and honestly we've gotten more character development and working from him than I ever would have guessed. I am unwilling to 'hand him off' to what's probably an execution, so if people are unwiling to keep him in a gilded cage then I'd argue for releasing him somewhere far away. Maybe with a trinket that'd help him against other skaven.

But as far as it goes, one is freedom, so he is as close to free as he has ever been. I'd like to push that towards full rehabilitation, even if I expect him to remain locked up forever. Honestly, a skaven librarian would be pretty cool.
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storryeater said:
Honestly, Qrech may be useful to figure out whether Skaven evil is social programming or soul programming. He seems pretty decent, though that can be that he acts in order to get us to drop our guard.

I am also all for redeeming him, if that is possible, not because Lima syndrome, but because on my redeemability criteria, "social programming" is higher than "net evil generated". I do get, however, that our time may be better spent doing good elsewhere, which is why I will accept the fact that we may lack the time to redeem him if we get nothing out of it. We may get crucial Skaven info out of it tho.
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Oshha said:
While I am firmly against letting Qretch go, I am also firmly against killing him without a good reason and I don't consider "You have outlived your usefulness" to be a good reason for killing someone.
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That idea seems unpopular. Also I rather obviously agree with you @Oshha.
Edit: Your idea, Jyn Ryvia, not the hypothetical out off left field example.
 
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Reynal said:
While I understand not everyone wants to risk potentially rolling on the arcane mark table, I would really like to get cloak activity down. On top of it not being redundant—unlike illusion it allows us to effectively multi-task, and there are circumstances where we do not want to just disappear with invisibility—it also looks like something that might work very well as the basis for some form of Fog of War based battle magic.
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The thing is that EVERY time we cast a spell we have the chance of getting an arcane Mark, so if we keep casting our magic as frequently as we do right now, it is almost impossible to avoid getting some more marks.

And you should remember that we did not get our las two marks because of a miscast or a bad roll, we git them out of critical successes...
 
Fanhunter696 said:
The thing is that EVERY time we cast a spell we have the chance of getting an arcane Mark, so if we keep casting our magic as frequently as we do right now, it is almost impossible to avoid getting some more marks.

And you should remember that we did not get our las two marks because of a miscast or a bad roll, we git them out of critical successes...
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Actually, no. We need to roll for a spell, not cast a spell. And we only roll if the spell is hard or we are tired.
 
The more we talk about what's best for him while not letting him free, the more the secret part of imperial zoo seems like the best choice.

As scummy as putting a sentient in a institution that's call a zoo feels, they are the best able to keep him locked up while giving him as nice a life as possible.

They deal with dragons, pegis and griffins. They know how to treat beings that are as smart as or smarter then humans.
 
also, I feel that once again modern, IRL morality is getting in the way of what an agent of the empire will do in this situation.

so, to your question @Glau, if it came to glided cage, execution or setting him free?

I think Mathy, an agent of the grey order, would choice execution. the same way she killed the breeders or won't waste seed charges on the average solder.

she wont like it,

I wont like it.

but in her culture, history and training... its the 'right' choice.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
I think Mathy, an agent of the grey order, would choice execution.
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I think we're already choosing the gilded cage, and will continue to default towards it unless we switch to one of the other options.

It costs us nothing to keep him around for the rest of his life, after that final action to let him have other friends, and it's honestly better for his quality of life and health of mind than the other two.

He's a bad guy, but there's no reason we need to mistreat him or anything, and letting him have his final years in peace is just basic decency.

Jyn Ryvia said:
The more we talk about what's best for him while not letting him free, the more the secret part of imperial zoo seems like the best choice.

As scummy as putting a sentient in a institution that's call a zoo feels, they are the best able to keep him locked up while giving him as nice a life as possible.

They deal with dragons, pegis and griffins. They know how to treat beings that are as smart as or smarter then humans.
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Jyn Ryvia said:
also, I feel that once again modern, IRL morality is getting in the way of what an agent of the empire will do in this situation.

so, to your question @Glau, if it came to glided cage, execution or setting him free?

I think Mathy, an agent of the grey order, would choice execution. the same way she killed the breeders or won't waste seed charges on the average solder.

she wont like it,

I wont like it.

but in her culture, history and training... its the 'right' choice.
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Also, please don't double post.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
also, I feel that once again modern, IRL morality is getting in the way of what an agent of the empire will do in this situation.

so, to your question @Glau, if it came to glided cage, execution or setting him free?

I think Mathy, an agent of the grey order, would choice execution. the same way she kill the breeders or won't waste speed charges on the average solder.

she wont like it,

I wont like it.

but in her culture, history and training... its the 'right' choice.
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Cool, but I am a modern person with my own set of morals so when I vote, it is going to be with my morals and not some made-up set of morals that require me to do evil things under my morals. I also disagree with your assertion that is how Mathilde would act. You seem to be doing that thing again that you make a bunch of assumptions and assert them as facts.
 
storryeater said:
Actually, no. We need to roll for a spell, not cast a spell. And we only roll if the spell is hard or we are tired.
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It doesn't matter, Boney has confirmed numerous times that any use of magic can potentially cause an Arcane Mark (even from safe spells)

Having said that it is far more likely to get them as a consequence of an extreme result (either success or failure) than a "average " result, but the risk is still there...
 
Arcane Marks are the price we pay for being a human wizard, we can try and minimise them but unless we stop casting entirely (not going to happen) we can not avoid them
 
Oshha said:
Cool, but I am a modern person with my own set of morals so when I vote, it is going to be with my morals and not some made-up set of morals that require me to do evil things under my morals. I also disagree with your assertion that is how Mathilde would act. You seem to be doing that thing again that you make a bunch of assumptions and assert them as facts.
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I really don't like the under implication that being thrown at me here, its possible to like horror films or films with bad guy protagonists and not like the things in them IRL.

its the same here, to at least some point WBF needs you to 'think in the setting.' its not morally corrupt to play a bad guy in a game.

warhammer has moral greyness. Mathy has moral greyness. I'm just pointing out I don't think she would free the Skaven because as an Agent of the Empire thas kind of 'wrong'. and glid cage is a lot of work for something that's not really a good thing either.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
I really don't like the under the implication that being thrown at me here, its possible to like horror films or films with bad guy protagonists and not like the things in them IRL.

its the same here, to at least some point WBF needs you to 'think in the setting.' its not morally corrupt to play a bad guy in a game.

warhammer has moral greyness. Mathy has moral greyness. I'm just pointing out I don't think she would free the Skaven because as an Agent of the Empire thas kind of 'wrong'.
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Well, yes, Mathilde is in fact pretty Grey. :V
 
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