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I know I parroting myself, but whether or not it would be good or bad to set up a paramilitary navy is not relevant yet, the important question is can we handle the politics of it? and right now its a no.

and yes, turning economic power into military power, even for something as limited as river patrol is a political action. the forces of power in the area and our bosses will start side-eyeing us no matter how nice we act or pure our intentions.

because watching out for rising star's and snuffing them out before they outstrip you is how the powerful stay powerful, it's a survival instinct at this point.

if you still are advocating for a paramilitary then I hope you advocate for Diplomacy training, because getting military power of any kind is jumping into the deep end of that pool.
There isn't a political factor involved though. Everyone else raises forces as a means of protecting their shipping, and no one will so much as blink twice at it. No one acted against the EIC for hiring mercenary groups.
 
I would argue that an EIC navy of the type discussed would be exactly the sort of thing we'd want to have for intel-gathering about non-human threats within the Empire before they get to a size where a massive response must be mustered. With accounting behind them they'd be perfect for picking up on increased or decreased Greenskin activity in a region, beastkin movements, and other issues that are generally hard to spot before they get to a city-razing size from scattered merchant reports.
 
I have no problem with characters having weaknesses, though i don't think they are necessary for one to be interesting.
I do have a problem with a character having a weakness in a fairly central part of their job, and never taking steps to fix that weakness or work around it.

Diplomacy as a skill is important for a Grey Magister, especially someone aspiring to become a Lord Magister.
Mathilde is not stupid, she knows this, and she knows she could be better at it.
I do see Diplomacy being something we will never be great at, but as its part of the job we can work to be functional at it (14-16)
 
My perspective on 'EIC Navy' is very simple: opportunity cost.
Are there other things we can do with our next (few) EIC actions that would be more useful? Yes. Undoubtedly and inarguably.
When we have made some inroads into turning the EIC into an information-gathering mechanism we can consider giving it an offensive military capability.
I would put forward that we want to get the navy up and running before the canal finishes, because it is easier to prevent piracy than stamp it out once established.
 
I do see Diplomacy being something we will never be great at, but as its part of the job we can work to be functional at it (14-16)
Mathilde should try to not suck at diplomacy.
And seek ways to work around her not being good at it, one way would be to get advisers of her own, but that would probably become a huge AP sink.
 
Yes, we do, that's why we're running this at all. The fundamental premise that our control over the organization isn't legitimate is faulty, because otherwise the Bursar would have told us so. It's our job to make the company the best it can be, and it being our job means it's our responsibility to determine what that actually means. There's nobody providing oversight here; the buck stops with us.

There's a fair amount of evidence that what Mathilde is doing is fundamentally illegitimate, at least in terms of canon, and the Grey College are playing at best fast and loose with the rules and at worst acting in defiance of their charter by letting her. Realms of Sorcery says this 'The title "Magister" was created to prevent Wizards from becoming too wealthy at the behest of the Burgomeisters. In essence, they are vassals of their order and so they cannot manage business or own extensive property. Instead, a Magister's College functions like a Barony, and its Wizards are in service to it.' It also says 'The Lords of the Grey Order assure all Magisters of their Order are bound very tightly by the Articles of Magic and by the Order's own very strict rules. Shadowmancers may only practice their spellcraft for the benefit of Imperial society and are expressly forbidden from using their magic for their own profit or solely for the political or financial profit of their patrons.'

Several of Mathilde's activities as Spymaster of Stirland would be in breach of the latter rule, although she could make the excuse that she thought that the Stirland League was controlled by vampires, it's not a very convincing one.
 
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We are getting a way with lot more than i would have expected.
And everytime people vote to push the envelope a little bit more, i get worried.
But i guess this is some weird alternate universe where Grey Magisters are allowed to run megacorps.
 
Technically we don't, we just have stocks. We're operating on a lot more soft power than anything people can explicitly point to, that's why most of our valuable currencies are favors rather than money values.
Fine, own a third of a megacorp.
Point is, we are getting away with lit more than we should.
I assume in the interest of making the quest interesting and not limiting the votes.
 
What I'm saying is that, as the nobility of Stirland, they are.

And I'm thinking, it requires the Countess' permission to do so beyond what is necessary to patrol your own personal fiefdom, because any noble that just ignores private armies popping up deserves every preasant uprising they get.
Does the EIC have such a permission?
Do the EIC nobles own the riverpaths we are talking about?

Enabling trade in the Empire benefits everybody more. As the suppliers of the current military efforts, expending resources to increase their military efforts is trivial and will be recouped in increased efficiency; Pirates are an operating cost, like utilities or taxes.

Since you are so confident in this, I would like to see your analysis on the internal Empire logistics and budget in hard figures for this.
Meanwhile, I am not so certain, simply because we lack precisely that information.

At the same time, the Empire as a whole is clearly not doing too bad despite the pirates. Same for the EIC in fact! So their presence is not a disaster about to topple the existing status quo.
So the question is not, "are pirates bad?" Of course they are. The question is, what way forward is the most beneficial for Stirland and the Empire. And piracy in Stirland is just one minor issue amidst a thousand others.

Yes, we do, that's why we're running this at all. The fundamental premise that our control over the organization isn't legitimate is faulty, because otherwise the Bursar would have told us so. It's our job to make the company the best it can be, and it being our job means it's our responsibility to determine what that actually means. There's nobody providing oversight here; the buck stops with us, and our nineteen Stewardship and twenty three Martial.

You are missing the point. EIC is a legitimate trade company, not the legitimate Stirland Army.
And if we facilitate a transformation, like you said, the buck stops with us. What trouble that private military gets into by accident or otherwise, would be our fault, despite or because of our extremely sporadic operative management of it. Our oversight of EIC is always going to be limited due to AP Hell and I do not want this to turn into Mercenary Company Captain, The Quest.

Again, I repeat. What benefits the EIC is completely irrelevant. The EIC is a facilitator, a tool. Not the end goal.
 
Our oversight of EIC is always going to be limited due to AP Hell and I do not want this to turn into Mercenary Company Captain, The Quest.
I would not actually be opposed to this, though it would not be my first choice (i'm kinda hoping for imperial heirs magical auntie quest).
But it would need to be an actual vote, not something we slide into as people keep obsessing over protecting our company and its profits.
 
Technically we don't, we just have stocks. We're operating on a lot more soft power than anything people can explicitly point to, that's why most of our valuable currencies are favors rather than money values.
and thats the rub, we get away with a lot because its soft power, the paramilitary is hard power. limited hard power, but it very well could be crossing that fuzzy line we have been allowed to walk on.
 
On the diplo front, I'd say getting basic Elf diplomacy before our field trip/boot camp up there would be a good idea.

It does amuse me that we work off of soft power while having diplo as our dump stat.

Also, I think Boney's been pretty clear that the rules are written so that no level of clever technicalities would allow a Wizard to be or think they are legally untouchable for problematic behavior while leaving blatantly obvious ways to game the system that only work if the people in charge say they do. Remember, on top of the rules for Wizards being put together in a time when everyone was totally paranoid about them, this is the subset made for Grey Wizards by Grey Wizards. Everything having wiggle room is a feature, not a bug.
 
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Also, let's remember, no other college kills as many of their own as Grey College.
Not because Grey Wizards are anymore likely to go bad, but because Grey College is less willing to wait until they have gone bad.
We have gone through this with Bursar, we have only so much leeway, and we don't know how much that is.
Unless we really need to create a paramilitary forces to help our trading company, and i am not sure we do, we probably should not.
 
I would not actually be opposed to this, though it would not be my first choice (i'm kinda hoping for imperial heirs magical auntie quest).
But it would need to be an actual vote, not something we slide into as people keep obsessing over protecting our company and its profits.
I too have little interest in the EIC. It makes guns and is (going to be) a good vehicle for information gathering. It is a tool to me, and I am eager to put it to the use I was hoping for when we decided to open a branch in K8P.

After a point we'll be out if debt and then we can throw our income at something else - upkeep of the information networks and if there is any left, the shyllans could always use a couple of quid, but expansion or growth of profit for their own sake means little to me.

And I would rather a dwarven government do the millitary stuff than a human corporation, any day.

It makes nobles with interests in competing companies less concerned, for one thing, and many other compelling reasons I haven't thought of yet :p

...
Could we spend dwarven favour on getting the dwarves to run patrols on the river? Like 10 for a full time thing? Preventing the loss of goods should make it worthwhile to K8P imo, and it would save us half an AP.

I'm sorta confused why we can't fire off a letter to Whilamena or Anton and have them to spend their AP on this instead of ours, but that might be poking the game mechanics...
 
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and thats the rub, we get away with a lot because its soft power, the paramilitary is hard power. limited hard power, but it very well could be crossing that fuzzy line we have been allowed to walk on.
If it was such a major problem, it wouldn't be an option. Mathilde isn't an idiot. She's a Magister of the Grey Order and a former spy-mistress. She knows how all of this works much better than us.
 
I too have little interest in the EIC. It makes guns and is (going to be) a good vehicle for information gathering. It is a tool to me, and I am eager to put it to the use I was hoping for when we decided to open a branch in K8P.

After a point we'll be out if debt and then we can throw our income at something else - upkeep of the information networks and if there is any left, the shyllans could always use a couple of quid, but expansion or growth of profit for their own sake means little to me.

And I would rather a dwarven government do the millitary stuff than a human corporation, any day.

It makes nobles with interests in competing companies less concerned, for one thing, and many other compelling reasons I haven't thought of yet :p

...
Could we spend dwarven favour on getting the dwarves to run patrols on the river? Like 10 for a full time thing? Preventing the loss of goods should make it worthwhile to K8P imo, and it would save us half an AP.

I'm sorta confused why we can't fire off a letter to Whilamena or Anton and have them to spend their AP on this instead of ours, but that might be poking the game mechanics...
I kinda assume they are.
But they are doing it from a profit/loss standpoint, and eradicating all the threats is probably more expensive than just accepting that some shipments get lost.
 
On the River
On the River
.....................


A girl walked slowly, eyes down.

There had been a battle the night before.

Out on the river there had been the boom of cannon and the shadows of barges and monitors thrown by burning hulks before they slipped under the water. No one she had spoken to had known who the sides were- or if there were only two.

A beam stepped over. An oar. A body.

The dead man had worn buff and tan, cheap dyes but strong fabric, stitching doubled over what was needed, but how it had been washed she could not tell under the riverine silt.

An overturned boat, with footprints leading away. She'd have to tell the village hunters to keep an eye out for stranded pirates- they were likely to be careless with the lives of the locals.

Another shattered mess of timber. Some rope. A shirtless youth, perhaps fourteen. Who twitched.

She gasped softly, swiftly kneeling and turning him first on his side as he choked out the water then to his back as she checked him over for wounds, the only thing apparent an ugly purple mottling over the base of his throat, as if a blow had struck to take off his head.

She frowned. ABCs, airway, breathing, circulation. He was gasping, so that was good? No bleeding she could see. So.... She wracked her thoughts.

"Sister Juliana's lesson...ABCs, then broken bones, then make sure they are warm, but don't move them much. Ok! I can do this."

She felt down his limbs and across his ribs, remembering only to blush when his blue eyes flickered open with her hands spread across his chest.

He seemed ok. She swirled her cloak off her shoulders and across his body, leaning a little closer to whisper- "Stay still, I'll go get help."

........

Douglas Mitchen, Heir to Stonefort Valley by the grace of Myrmidia and his father's strong right arm, choked, spitting out water. The golden-haired girl of about his age had just run off, and he wasn't sure he'd survive till her return.

The last thing he remembered was his uncle's ship, there pride of his father's fleet, shuddering under him as the spiked boarding ramps slammed down. They had fallen upon the three EIC merchant barges just after sunset, staging from a two tributaries to avoid the dwarven patrol and then pincer their prey. It had been a glorious fight, full worthy of a princeling's first battle. He even dueled a marine! Uncle sent him in the second wave to the last ship, the first two falling to small, slim galleys with grapenels and the last saved for the River Viper, after a ranged duel to goad the Marines into exhausting their powder.

And then it had all gone wrong. The River Viper was tied to the barge, all the Prince's fleet engaged in looting and making their prizes ready for tow in the near-black, when two new ships, looking like variants on light dwarven half-monitors in the cannon-flash, opened up on them. And only them- their gunnery was good enough to quickly set two of the smaller raiders alight, and from there cannon systematically destroyed anything revealed by flickering light. Except the EIC barges, they were untouched. But counter-boarded by musketry and sabres in the hands of merchant troops, and...

His throat hurt. He had been wearing a gorget, hadn't he? That and a wide leather and metal belt over his kidneys- too much more, he had been told, and he'd drown should he fall overboard.

He groaned again. Trying to form words and ending up with a whistling moan.

But as he turned his head, he saw the girl returning, with two men and a small wagon, two other survivors, one in the colors of his father and one in EIC gear.

But the girl smiled.

.................

"It was years later that Douglas, known then as the Silent Prince, would be celebrated in song for his deeds driving back Waaagh Broketeeth, alongside his wife, Marianne of the Shallayan Priesthood. But it is to his childhood that we must look for the influences that made him the man he was, first among the border princes-turned-pirates so common in those days, and then in the small river village where he met his future wife and was tutored by shallayans, and an ex-EIC trader, known to history only as Uncle Joe."

- The Conquest of The Badlands, Lissile d'Monafortreau, Senior Thesis Collection XCVIII, U of K8P Press
 
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If it was such a major problem, it wouldn't be an option. Mathilde isn't an idiot. She's a Magister of the Grey Order and a former spy-mistress. She knows how all of this works much better than us.
Mathilde is not all knowing, and we have had bad vote options in the past.
Just making a paramilitary forces won't get her assassinated, but it could raise eyebrows and get us another talk with the Bursar.
And if we keep pushing the envelope, we may end up in the colleges shitlist.
 
I can't wait for the Reclaimation Epilogue.

Yes, the Waaagh lectures and their impact are gratifying.

Yes, we finally continued the AV research, and I am both happy and very curious about it.

Yes, I am looking forward to getting our Patriarch speechless when we deliver the Queekish dictionary.

But nothing can compare to my excitement for seeing how Belegar, Kragg, Kazador and all the other beautiful bearded battleaxe butterflies react to Karak Eight Peaks, Restored and Triumphant.
 
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Everything having wiggle room is a feature, not a bug.

Well, consider what Mathilde has actually been spending major money on:, using the wiggle room:
1. Making the lives of people in her fief better, investing in a lot of infrastructure for them.
2. A whole bunch of fancy research labs, with some facilities then repurposed toward Eye of Gazul, also open to the ducklings.
3. A large research library, also opened to the ducklings.

All of those are I think things the order would find valuable for their cause. The romance collection is probably pushing things, though...
 
For people interested in old world trade, I've modified the old world trade map to include K8P and the planned canal between Black Water and the River Aver. Note that the side of the World's Edge Mountain the Black Water flows out of different on some maps.

I'm trying to upload it, but am having trouble. Is there a maximum size for an image, or something like that? Here's the link:
ibb.co

divided-Loyalties-Map-Trade-Old-World hosted at ImgBB

Image divided-Loyalties-Map-Trade-Old-World hosted in ImgBB
 
If it was such a major problem, it wouldn't be an option. Mathilde isn't an idiot. She's a Magister of the Grey Order and a former spy-mistress. She knows how all of this works much better than us.
she is not an idiot, but this is not an area she is great at, she often doesn't think about the ramifications of her actions or how they look on the outside.

politics are an actual, in-game, blind spot for her.
 
For people interested in old world trade, I've modified the old world trade map to include K8P and the planned canal between Black Water and the River Aver. Note that the side of the World's Edge Mountain the Black Water flows out of different on some maps.

I'm trying to upload it, but am having trouble. Is there a maximum size for an image, or something like that? Here's the link:
ibb.co

divided-Loyalties-Map-Trade-Old-World hosted at ImgBB

Image divided-Loyalties-Map-Trade-Old-World hosted in ImgBB
some times files are not coded into the forums 'ok' list. try downloading it onto an image hosting site and then post the link.
 
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