Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
Valmond said:
Wilhelmina is after profit (long term, sustainable), we want information.
Yes, Wilhelmina can, for now, be left to handle everything day to day, but that is not an excuse to not take an occasional look and offer extra direction if needed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To make a profit, you need information. Yes, there are probably a few places that have much more useful information for us than for a CEO, but I'd imagine there's a lot of overlap. We'd both want to set up in big cities, important border crossings, maybe even political seats of power, if Wilhelmina's started bribing lobbying local nobles to act in ways that benefit her.
 
adaer said:
To make a profit, you need information. Yes, there are probably a few places that have much more useful information for us than for a CEO, but I'd imagine there's a lot of overlap. We'd both want to set up in big cities, important border crossings, maybe even political seats of power, if Wilhelmina's started bribing lobbying local nobles to act in ways that benefit her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Right, hence no need to direct its spread. Simple economics says they want to spread into nexus of trade, and Wilhelmina is cheating on top by having a goddamned Canal built on her suggestion to rework the Imperial Trade Network along nodes she already controls.
 
adaer said:
To make a profit, you need information. Yes, there are probably a few places that have much more useful information for us than for a CEO, but I'd imagine there's a lot of overlap. We'd both want to set up in big cities, important border crossings, maybe even political seats of power, if Wilhelmina's started bribing lobbying local nobles to act in ways that benefit her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And if there are not holes, great, i just want us to take a look to make sure that is the case, hardly needing a full AP i think, and probably will be part of setting up EIC as active info network action.
 
I feel compelled to point out once again that Mathilde isn't the only Grey Wizard in existence. She doesn't need to carry the entire Empire on her back. She can let the many other Grey Wizards that actually live in the Empire and whose assigned task is dealing with its business do their jobs.

Particularly if it's anything like canon, where meddling in the Empire's internal politics is expressly forbidden for Grey Wizards, whose mandate is only to deal with attempted subversion by external actors, not to intervene in internal conflict or competition, whether it be political, commercial, or religious. A Grey Wizard's job isn't to pick winners amongst the various factions in the Empire, it's to make sure that those factions can compete without Chaos meddling. I don't think they're even meant to have anything to do with conflict with non-Empire group that aren't Chaos (and arguably vampires). The canon Empire was apparently very worried about the Grey College picking sides, to the degree that they're much, much more limited in what jobs they're allowed to take than the other Colleges.
 
lets actually look at this.
The Eastern Imperial Company
Your outstanding debt: 625 crowns
Your share of EIC profits: 125 crowns / turn
Current Focus of the EIC: Handgun Factory in Blutdorf (Grand Opening!)
[ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
[ ] Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
[ ] Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.
[ ] Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.
[ ] Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
[ ] Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry. (NEW)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So Economic side:
Your outstanding debt: 625 crowns
Your share of EIC profits: 125 crowns / turn
Current Focus of the EIC: Handgun Factory in Blutdorf (Grand Opening!)

Five more turns and we are going to be load.
and the Handgun Factory is going to be open this social!

[ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
[ ] Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.
[ ] Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.

I guess these are the information actions, Rumour mill for (macro, but general information) while handlers for (micro, but hidden information) while the Julia is for connecting up with the Striland network or just getting her as a minion. (so widen network or Julia does a random action for EIC? along side our one?)

[ ] Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
[ ] Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
[ ] Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry. (NEW)

these seem to be the Defence options. there to use the EIC to help with problems externally (the enemies of the empire and friends) and internally (keeping us from being an enemy of the empire and friends).

auditor are internal (keep trust of the powers that be), Roswita is a dip action (So stronger and friendlier Striland) river navy is defending profits and the trade routes, but thats now a problem that can be put back a bit. (also to be fair, this one is newish, so people haven't had a lot of time to think about it.)

I don't think Infomation or defence is more important than the other in the long run, so a 1 to 1 turn vote would be best... but we have done a lot of Defences so we need a bit of a cath up to... hmmm

in order of 'lets get' (knowing that it will change with new stuff.)

1: [ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
2: [ ] Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.
3: [ ] Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
4: [ ] Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.
5:[ ] Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
6:[ ] Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry. (NEW)

catch up with info and then move back to a 1 to 1 pick order.
 
Last edited:
Valmond said:
And if there are not holes, great, i just want us to take a look to make sure that is the case, hardly needing a full AP i think, and probably will be part of setting up EIC as active info network action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You'd really need to define what you mean by 'holes' here, because its manifestly impossible to cover the whole of the Empire with observers.

The EIC is going to be focused on human interest intelligence. People disappearing, bandits, monsters, famines, plagues. Things which impact the flow of trade. The EIC would have, via its habits of cozying up to local nobility, lesser information on troop movements via the sale of supplies, and strategic jockeying. The EIC might as a point of courtesy to the majority stockholder, pass word on regarding local witchcraft and magical matters in case Grey Wizard things need to happen to them.

The EIC would also be utterly terrible for learning about Waaaghs and Warherds arising in the forests of the Empire. It'd have access to a limited spectrum of Cult detection(which is for the best, since I'd rather not pit it against a Chaos Cult). It'd have active interdiction from Marienburg where they see competition, and it has zero penetration outside the Empire's borders, though it's wired into the Karaz Ankor gossip network.
 
veekie said:
You'd really need to define what you mean by 'holes' here, because its manifestly impossible to cover the whole of the Empire with observers.

The EIC is going to be focused on human interest intelligence. People disappearing, bandits, monsters, famines, plagues. Things which impact the flow of trade. The EIC would have, via its habits of cozying up to local nobility, lesser information on troop movements via the sale of supplies, and strategic jockeying. The EIC might as a point of courtesy to the majority stockholder, pass word on regarding local witchcraft and magical matters in case Grey Wizard things need to happen to them.

The EIC would also be utterly terrible for learning about Waaaghs and Warherds arising in the forests of the Empire. It'd have access to a limited spectrum of Cult detection(which is for the best, since I'd rather not pit it against a Chaos Cult). It'd have active interdiction from Marienburg where they see competition, and it has zero penetration outside the Empire's borders, though it's wired into the Karaz Ankor gossip network.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I meant locations we want eyes in, that EIC is not having any activity developed for whatever reason.
Like, eventually EIC will have offices everywhere, and mostly the places where profit is will be where we want eyes in.
But we may, for whatever reason, want eyes in places that are not as high on the priority list for profit making.
 
Valmond said:
I meant locations we want eyes in, that EIC is not having any activity developed for whatever reason.
Like, eventually EIC will have offices everywhere, and mostly the places where profit is will be where we want eyes in.
But we may, for whatever reason, want eyes in places that are not as high on the priority list for profit making.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Where specifically would those be?
It'd naturally transit along trade routes, towards major ports and provincial capitals.
It'd avoid areas of conflict as unreliably profitable of course.

So what might we care about that it doesn't?
 
Valmond said:
I meant locations we want eyes in, that EIC is not having any activity developed for whatever reason.
Like, eventually EIC will have offices everywhere, and mostly the places where profit is will be where we want eyes in.
But we may, for whatever reason, want eyes in places that are not as high on the priority list for profit making.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I do feel like your forgetting the spy network is hitching a ride on the EIC trade side, not the other way around.

the plan is to follow where the EIC goes and set up networks there. if we want to control where the EIC goes we need to control the EIC (e.g hook AP to it.) Boney said this a few times.
 
Not to mention that having traders poking around in areas they usually wouldn't be found would raise red flags with any competent cult/other wrongdoers.
 
NuclearConsensus said:
Not to mention that having traders poking around in areas they usually wouldn't be found would raise red flags with any competent cult/other wrongdoers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See this is where I want to have the EIC information network be a "College resource" where we have spent some favour on training some of the handlers and such alongside our EIC action if we can, and that way it will be more directly aligned with the college than running entirely through Mathilde.

These won't be eager novices, but low experience trained professionals guided by Mathilde and some college trainers, and with college interactions starting sooner it is handier for us to have the information from all the EIC to be sifted through and collated and sent on than having Mathilde running the analysis entirely by herself. Hopefully we can slip in a few non-wizards or peputatals from the college long term at no ongoing favour cost, due to this being for the college's benefit.
 
Briefvoice said:
If internal focus was desired, then "information about the non-Undumgi" would make sense as well. But the security agency seems utterly bizarre and out of nowhere given that there were zero indications an auditing agency was actually necessary. What problem was it supposed to address, exactly? Was someone worried about the skaven infiltrating the EIC?!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I remember the discussion. Back when we turnplanned the current turn, the main debate was between people who wanted to start hiring handlers to collect juicy information and people who wanted a security apparatus in place *before* we started seeking out information with potential national security implications. The latter camp won, which I think was reasonable. For this reason, I'd like to start hiring handlers next turn and set up rumor mill afterwards.

Intel on non-Undumgi stopped being an option because Karag Nar fell under the authority of the Undumgi, so it vanished from the list, and "give the EIC its own amred navy" continues to be a thing I and others are very skeptical of.
 
Quest said:
But wouldn't it be our armed navy?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's the sort of rope that Mathy could hang herself on.

I don't really like military build up actions until Mathy has enough DIP to tell if she is going to get in trouble for it.

Actually, we should try to get DIP up to the 13-16 range just so we can be ok at it. We are never going to be great at it, but not knowing how our own lecture want down with the people there embarrassing.
 
Last edited:
I'm wondering if as a Wizard lord we wouldn't be given essentially favour as a stipend to hire resources with, it stands to reason that Grey magister lords are able to hire perpetuals and other resources using grey college funds. Sort of similar to our book and gold expense fund that Belegar as given us but with a much wider remit. On that front i'm a little surprised we don't already have something like that but I suppose as we're situated outside of the Empire they probably don't feel they need to provide us with resources given whom we're employed by.
 
Last edited:
picklepikkl said:
Intel on non-Undumgi stopped being an option because Karag Nar fell under the authority of the Undumgi, so it vanished from the list, and "give the EIC its own amred navy" continues to be a thing I and others are very skeptical of.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Armed merchants are the norm here, unarmed merchants are either the foolish, the lucky, or the inexperienced. You simply cannot carry a cargo of worth across a river with gribblies, bandits and greenskins in the untamed surrounding lands without your own means of defense, unless you intend to just speedrun and pray.

All patrols do is reduce the concentration of hazards along the patrol routes, not eliminate them, because they do not actually have enough of a monopoly on force to make it happen. If your merchants are unarmed, then its simply rolling bandit gacha.

People are applying modern sensibilities to this issue, when the world is untamed and hazardous.

Heck, look at Francesco's origin story.
 
Last edited:
Alratan said:
I feel compelled to point out once again that Mathilde isn't the only Grey Wizard in existence. She doesn't need to carry the entire Empire on her back. She can let the many other Grey Wizards that actually live in the Empire and whose assigned task is dealing with its business do their jobs.

Particularly if it's anything like canon, where meddling in the Empire's internal politics is expressly forbidden for Grey Wizards, whose mandate is only to deal with attempted subversion by external actors, not to intervene in internal conflict or competition, whether it be political, commercial, or religious. A Grey Wizard's job isn't to pick winners amongst the various factions in the Empire, it's to make sure that those factions can compete without Chaos meddling. I don't think they're even meant to have anything to do with conflict with non-Empire group that aren't Chaos (and arguably vampires). The canon Empire was apparently very worried about the Grey College picking sides, to the degree that they're much, much more limited in what jobs they're allowed to take than the other Colleges.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm quite sure we don't work under these restrictions.

Otherwise breaking up trade cartells at the start of the quest would already have been an issue, nevermind our help in building up the EIC.
 
picklepikkl said:
I remember the discussion. Back when we turnplanned the current turn, the main debate was between people who wanted to start hiring handlers to collect juicy information and people who wanted a security apparatus in place *before* we started seeking out information with potential national security implications. The latter camp won, which I think was reasonable. For this reason, I'd like to start hiring handlers next turn and set up rumor mill afterwards.

Intel on non-Undumgi stopped being an option because Karag Nar fell under the authority of the Undumgi, so it vanished from the list, and "give the EIC its own amred navy" continues to be a thing I and others are very skeptical of.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, I like the idea of a proper East India Company EIC. I'm not sure it would be wise, but on the other hand, Mathilde is moving into the range where the empire probably wouldn't have a huge issue with it (partiallz because she doesn't actually need a private army to raise utter havok). And I'll point out that the Grey's already have a closely aligned knight order, so this isn't actually new ground.

Ultimately though, I'm more interested in Science Wizard Mathilde than in Wizard-General Mathilde.
 
Alratan said:
Particularly if it's anything like canon, where meddling in the Empire's internal politics is expressly forbidden for Grey Wizards, whose mandate is only to deal with attempted subversion by external actors, not to intervene in internal conflict or competition, whether it be political, commercial, or religious.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Going by the Bursar's backstory, that is not the case in quest-canon. She very much meddled in internal politics and economic issues, for the good of the Empire as a whole.
 
veekie said:
Armed merchants are the norm here, unarmed merchants are either the foolish, the lucky, or the inexperienced. You simply cannot carry a cargo of worth across a river with gribblies, bandits and greenskins in the untamed surrounding lands without your own means of defense, unless you intend to just speedrun and pray.

All patrols do is reduce the concentration of hazards along the patrol routes, not eliminate them, because they do not actually have enough of a monopoly on force to make it happen. If your merchants are unarmed, then its simply rolling bandit gacha.

People are applying modern sensibilities to this issue, when the world is untamed and hazardous.

Heck, look at Francesco's origin story.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh, I fully expect their merchant ships have armament. But that wasn't the option:
BoneyM said:
[ ] Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry. (NEW)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is a very significant difference between "armed merchant vessel" and "combat vessel," and it's a can of worms I don't want to open.
 
veekie said:
Armed merchants are the norm here, unarmed merchants are either the foolish, the lucky, or the inexperienced. You simply cannot carry a cargo of worth across a river with gribblies, bandits and greenskins in the untamed surrounding lands without your own means of defense, unless you intend to just speedrun and pray.

All patrols do is reduce the concentration of hazards along the patrol routes, not eliminate them, because they do not actually have enough of a monopoly on force to make it happen. If your merchants are unarmed, then its simply rolling bandit gacha.

People are applying modern sensibilities to this issue, when the world is untamed and hazardous.

Heck, look at Francesco's origin story.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If it's that critical then Whilmena will take care of it as a standard part of merchant operations and therefore we don't need to devote an action to it.
 
picklepikkl said:
Oh, I fully expect their merchant ships have armament. But that wasn't the option:

There is a very significant difference between "armed merchant vessel" and "combat vessel," and it's a can of worms I don't want to open.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am less worried by it, because I have a feeling that if the EIC doesn't do it, some other organization will, and unless it's the dwarves, it will be one I trust less than the EIC. Also, with the EIC's focus on long-term profits, any trade up the Blood River will lead to profit as people go through Karag Nar.

And hopefully, we can get it to partner with Barak Varr's (and K8P's) river-navies, which will be an additional ethical rudder for the organization.
 
Yeah, I'm quite fine with giving a company a navy. It's one thing when the prospective enemies of the company are human natives, its quite another when they are fighting Orcs pirates.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
If it's that critical then Whilmena will take care of it as a standard part of merchant operations and therefore we don't need to devote an action to it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is fair enough, but then people were asking why we didn't realize there was an explosion of Border Prince piracy and how we couldn't have done anything about it.
We had all the information and ability to do something about it.

Having better things to do than to head off the pirates getting the crucial initial hauls needed to jumpstart their process is fine. After all, nevermind Wilhelmina, Belegar got hands on dealing with it, though apparently dwarves aren't too good at hunting down rats on water, they got enough dakka to kill anything they run into but the pirates are there one moment and ordinary fishers/tradesmen the next.

Believing that patrols are sufficient to do more than slow piracy is excessively optimistic.
A pirate ship doesn't even need to be bigger than a fleet of rowboats with the grapnels to do a boarding action in the night.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top