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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Thomasfoolery said:
Hmm, so far all the Boon ideas (Even my preferred Dreadnought pick) seem rather flawed and unsatisfying. So I'm definitely in the let it ride camp, I think as long as we wait a bit something very suitable will eventually become apparent. I'm also quite skeptical about the idea that waiting will be a big cost to Belegar's psyche. If we waited 50 years maybe, but if we call it in within even 5-10 I think that would be considered rather quick by dwarf standards.
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to be fair, thats my bad sense of humour more than anything, (longish time poster can attest to that.) were I purposely think of bad things so my pick isn't obviously biased to it.

edit: I also don't think Boney is going to want us arguing about this non-stop for the next out of game year. so we are probably going to have to pick.

Doctor Elsewhere said:
Something to help the dwarven population issue, though its nebulous what form it would take.
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thats too squickly and morally weird, and not very solid. I don't believe boney is going to let that one through.
 
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Lupercal said:
I think they ment Mannfred's Liber Necris?
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Yeah these are Nagash's named books

  • Carrion Book of Shyish
  • Codex Mortifica
  • Liber Necris
  • Liber Necronomica
  • Tome of a Thousand Souls
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Nine Books of Nagash

The Nine Books of Nagash, also simply called the Books of Nagash, are nine massive tomes that record the secret spells of Nagash, the first and greatest of all the necromancers of the Known World. Each book contains the secrets of how to cast one of Nagash's greatest necromantic spells and many...
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Of which the Liber Necris is one.

Liber Mortis is considered one cause it was made from translations of one of the other ones for some reason.
 
picklepikkl said:
I don't think it does, for the simple reason that "if it were that straightforward, someone would have done it already.
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No that doesn't follow at all, we've discussed this oh about a hundred million times already, if you care about the fact that manipulating other winds with a wind forms dhar you're probably the kind of caster that can't afford to allow that to happen in the first place with out going insane and therefore losing any reason to care about trying to pull it off. Mathilde happens to be that kind of caster only she has the belt to stop that being an issue. The other kinds of mages that could accidentally create dhar and power through the issue and not care (Slaan or Elves) already have a method of multi wind casting and know what path they are supposed to walk down.

picklepikkl said:
My belief is that it's easy to grab on to the other winds if you don't care about them becoming Dhar -- especially if the goal is for them to become Dhar -- and that it's not terribly difficult to use a wind to manipulate Dhar (we know that Van Hal himself had the equivalent of Magic 1, but that was enough control of Shyish to master manipulating Dhar with it). What the sorcerer did is basically just what necromancers do: it wasn't new information, just a view of how dark-magic-users create Dhar when there isn't enough of it in the environment.
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Also, this is wrong as well. The Ulgu-Dhar spell that the Eshin sorcerer used was very different from standard dark magic or for that matter what we saw of necromancy, he was using dhar as the payload with Ulgu as the carrier for his attack spell. Dark magic as per the TT and RP is actually straight dhar spells. They aren't the same at all.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
I don't believe he had a book (save Vlad's book of Nagash).

Speaking of one of Nagash's books I believe is identified as a Liber Necris.
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Doomed Wombat said:
Yeah these are Nagash's named books

  • Carrion Book of Shyish
  • Codex Mortifica
  • Liber Necris
  • Liber Necronomica
  • Tome of a Thousand Souls
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Nine Books of Nagash

The Nine Books of Nagash, also simply called the Books of Nagash, are nine massive tomes that record the secret spells of Nagash, the first and greatest of all the necromancers of the Known World. Each book contains the secrets of how to cast one of Nagash's greatest necromantic spells and many...
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com warhammerfantasy.fandom.com
Of which the Liber Necris is one.

Liber Mortis is considered one cause it was made from translations of one of the other ones for some reason.
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Here. It is an in-universe work by Mannfred von Carstein that was sold as a background book irl.

The real answer of course is that the authors of WHF didn't coordinate with each other and had limited imagincations when it came to words meaning Book of Death/the Dead.

Edit: Just fyi but the Mannfred book was from 2006 while the Names of Nagash's books were not published until 2013.
 
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Lupercal said:
Here. It is an in-universe work by Mannfred von Carstein that was sold as a background book irl.

The real answer of course is that the authors of WHF didn't coordinate with each other and had limited imagincations when it came to words meaning Book of Death/the Dead.

Edit: Just fyi but the Mannfred book was from 2006 while the Names of Nagash's books were not published until 2013.
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There's also the in-universe explanation that Mannfred is a copying stealing hack who wants some association with the big boy necromancer :)

I find this explanation quite plausible actually.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
edit: I also don't think Boney is going to want us arguing about this non-stop for the next out of game year. so we are probably going to have to pick.
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I mean, people aren't constantly arguing about the Great Deed so I'm skeptical this will happen. Once the novelty fades I think either a contingent will push their idea through at the end of the turn or they won't and the whole thing will fade into the background until a novel idea eventually comes up.
 
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Alectai said:
Based on what we've seen? It seems more like a matter of "Bringing a new Dwarf into the world is kind of a minor atrocity in its own right because the world rejects them. But the Chaos Dwarfs don't care because they need more warm bodies".

Like, maybe not GW Lore, but this makes a lot of sense in the Boneyverse given what we've learned about how Dwarf souls work "They get one go at life and then every effort is made to ensure they get their eternal rest in the Glittering Realm. The world hates them and tries to turn them to stone, so no good-thinking Dwarf will have more children than they absolutely must, which combines poorly with being besieged on all sides. The Fire Dwarfs however, are too angry to care, too embattled to stick to their traditions, and in that case, a minor atrocity to ensure their ascendency is perfectly fine"
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I kind of roll my eyes at "the world hates them". It seems like the anti-stone magic resistance works just find for them.

But I think you're basically right that it's a morale issue. Not so much the turning to stone thing as... well, the world in general being a hostile, unhappy place that doesn't particularly encourage dwarves to bring children into the world.

If dwarven women decided they wanted more children and had averaged one every three or four years instead of every 15 to 20 then population issues would be solved.
 
Briefvoice said:
I kind of roll my eyes at "the world hates them". It seems like the anti-stone magic resistance works just find for them.

But I think you're basically right that it's a morale issue. Not so much the turning to stone thing as... well, the world in general being a hostile, unhappy place that doesn't particularly encourage dwarves to bring children into the world.

If dwarven women decided they wanted more children and had averaged one every three or four years instead of every 15 to 20 then population issues would be solved.
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Well at the very least we should be seeing a Dwarven baby boom in K8P since there is going to be a general sense of jubilation floating around the place for a while, not to mention the celebration that will no doubt go on for a couple days at the very least.

And now I'm imagining Mathilde getting drunk at some point and ending up marrying a bunch of people.
 
Lupercal said:
Noooo. The Mannfred book is a history of Necromancy and Vampires from Nagash to the modern times (2522 IC).
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I don't see how it being a history book as opposed to a text on dark magic that could plunge the world into darkness means he's not just a hack copying Nagash :p

If anything it demonstrates how big a slacker he is :D

Briefvoice said:
I kind of roll my eyes at "the world hates them"
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The world is likely indifferent to their suffering, but it certainly expresses that indifference quite vocally where they are concerned :)

BioWolf said:
@BoneyM Can we start voting now and just stop the thread from adding new traits?
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I think we vote when BoneyM wants us too, and I believe he wants to get the turn back on track first IIRC.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I mean, people aren't constantly arguing about the Great Deed so I'm skeptical this will happen. Once the novelty fades I think either a contingent will push their idea through at the end of the turn or they won't and the whole thing will fade into the background until a novel idea eventually comes up.
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hmmm, I think one of the reasons Great Deed calmed down was that it had a list and we didn't need anything on that list (yet). this is 'anything' so every time someone comes up with 'anything' its going to start again if left to sit.

at least that's what I think.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
hmmm, I think one of the reasons Great Deed calmed down was that it had a list and we didn't need anything on that list.
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That list wasn't exhaustive though, but you didn't see people spamming new ideas to find something we did want. I think the only new idea for it proposed in the last 2000 or so pages was a nobility promotion mechanism.

BioWolf said:
@BoneyM Can we start voting now and just stop the thread from adding new traits?
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Not how it works.
 
BioWolf said:
@BoneyM Can we start voting now and just stop the thread from adding new traits?
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Please reread the post:
BoneyM said:
In the coming day or so, I will continue the turn where things left off. I plan to have a big wrap-up of the Eight Peaks campaign at the end of the IC year, and there will be three different ways these events will have ended up shaping Mathilde: one from these past two days as Thane, one from these past four years as Loremaster, and one reflecting on her personal life. I will be taking suggestions for possible entries to this list; please make these suggestions with an eye to Mathilde's continued evolution as a character, rather than mere mechanical advantage. The draft below is very rough and a lot is likely to change between it and a final list of options to vote for.
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At the end of the IC year. Which is to say, the end of 2482, the year we are not even halfway through yet. There's the remainder of this turn and an entire other turn cycle to go before the trait vote, which is why Boney was soliciting ideas now, well ahead of time.
 
picklepikkl said:
For the Nth time: nobody disputes that you can use a Wind to manipulate Dhar. That's what Necromancy is with Shyish and that's what the Eshin sorcerer did with Ulgu. The thing a lot of people are skeptical of is if that works when you use a Wind to manipulate another pure Wind.
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Yeah but there's no harm giving it a proper go now is there?

If it works the results are amazing, possibly paradigm shifting even.

If it doesn't, well the belt will handle the Dhar no problem.
 
Love tired bus times, brain goes to fun places while I struggle to stay awake.

I'm not sure which dumb meme response I like more to the future Thorgrim moment.

Belegar's "I lived, bitch" cart load after cart load of ash being dumped in front Karaz a Karak without further comment.

or

Belegar showing up and Thorgrim being like "I expected you to die!" and Belegar just slaying the king of kings with "OK Doomer" and leaving with a mic drop.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
hmmm, I think one of the reasons Great Deed calmed down was that it had a list and we didn't need anything on that list (yet). this is 'anything' so every time someone comes up with 'anything' its going to start again if left to sit.

at least that's what I think.
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The reason the Great Deed discussion calmed down is that BoneyM didn't include using it as a voting option in any subsequent turns after earning it. If he doesn't put the Boon up for a vote then I'm sure that'll calm down too. If he does put the Boon up for a vote then likely we'll choose to use it for something among whatever options list he comes up with.

ADarkerPorpoise said:
Belegar showing up and Thorgrim being like "I expected you to die!" and Belegar just slaying the king of kings with "OK Doomer" and leaving with a mic drop.
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I admit, I laughed out loud.
 
Sinsystems said:
Well at the very least we should be seeing a Dwarven baby boom in K8P since there is going to be a general sense of jubilation floating around the place for a while, not to mention the celebration that will no doubt go on for a couple days at the very least.

And now I'm imagining Mathilde getting drunk at some point and ending up marrying a bunch of people.
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I... I doubt we will without prompting. Baby booms after wars are just too contextual and heavily based around the removal of geographic barriers (ie, men and women in different places) to project that forward to what is fundementally a colonization effort. And just based off the stuff I know (American colonies) there is a huge, long-term problem of men being much, much more willing to uproot themselves and settle elsewhere than women. (Possibly/probably driven by social control mechanisms and lack of equivalent access to resources? Idk if those factors are different enough in WHF from IRL to matter.)

So we do need to push baby booms. And we do need to go out and start trying to find women to settle here. Else we're going to grow very slowly and look like a merc camp rather than a city in ten years.

I'm actually more concerned about this than most of the thread, I think. Building off of the failing-to-materialize human civilian population. You can't just ignore this side of settlement creation in favor of the men and armies and expect to end up with a workable, balanced civilian culture.

We want K8P to fill up? We need to recruit. Or send out agents to recruit. Women, dwarves, halflings. Maybe Francesco picks up on this, maybe he's got his patriarchal blinders on and needs to be pushed. Maybe Belegar picks up on this, maybe he needs to be reminded that a long creates heirs and doesn't just lead armies. Either way, this is a very large shift in mindset and priorities that I am in no way willing to take for granted.

I want K8P to be the glittering jewel of the south. That requires sustainable population ratios and self-sufficiency in production.
 
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