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if its anything like the stirland end game we will get a few peaceful, 'get some shit done' turns before Boney pokes us to get off our ass's and start a new adventure.
I suspect we have until 2488 at the latest, the year of the Battle of Death Pass, where Morglum Necksnapper convinced the Bretonnian King to end the Errantry War against greenskins by wiping out his army.
 
if its anything like the stirland end game we will get a few peaceful, 'get some shit done' turns before Boney pokes us to get off our ass's and start a new adventure.
Belegar: "So, what do you intend to do now that you've been instrumental in reconquering Karak Eight Peaks, Mathilde?"

Mathilde: "I could really use a vacation. Would you mind if I go to Ulthuan to kill some Elves?"

The entire Karaz Ankor: [standing ovation]
 
I doubt the latter. We were unemployed at the end of Stirland, and due to take our Magister exam. As far as the college is concerned, top advisor to a Dwarf King is a perfectly acceptable spot to rest our laurels, and there's no obligation whatsoever to try for Lord Magister.
King-Bro might give a 'nothing urgent, do what you think is best' orders for a year or two tho.

and I'm still not giving up on backing down on being the loremaster job when the 5 years are up.

tho I am changing my vote from going back to the empire, too work more closely with the Undumgi in building their new nation-state. technically a downgrade, but we will still be working for King-bro when he needs us and I think the Undumgi and K8Ps will need a spymaster in the coming years more than a court-mage when they have a Kragg.
 
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We might also be able to do it through our knowledge of mor but I will admit that might be skirting necromancy. I just like the thought of Mathilde becoming a god.
 
It is the only way to defeat death that isn't becoming a slave to chaos.

arguable. something will keep going. It'll probably have something very much like your memories, and maybe even your face, but saying it would really be you is a bit of a stretch. Exactly what the self is is up in the air, but the kind of radical negative and externally forced changes to the mind necromancy inflicts rather blurs the line between rapid change and making something new out of the corpse of the necromancers self.

Death death is prefferable to ego death. At least if your just dead you don't have some horrid thing running around shiting on your legacy and killing those you loved, and its not like your meaningfully less dead than if your fucked up your mind badly enough.
 
The way to beat death are 3 ways we can pull off without becoming a abomination.



1 The first is study necromancy and create the elixee of life or just absorb life from things we kill. It's something we could pull off right now sort of. Only problem is hope don't mess it up like the vampires did. These means studying Nagash books Or liver mortis and hunting down killing vampire to study. Also the easiest way.

2 we could delve deep enough into the grey wind we can ascend. Study of Nagash books, High elf or Slann magic would all have best examples and pieces of what we need. These is relatively hard since we would need to travel the world. Doable but would involve a lot of effort on our part. Also messing these up could turn into a chaos spawn.

3 Become a god. High risk and involves us doing a lot more actions with gods and dealing with divine energy. Messing these up you become a demon or die horrible with a crater we're you use to be.
 
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arguable. something will keep going. It'll probably have something very much like your memories, and maybe even your face, but saying it would really be you is a bit of a stretch. Exactly what the self is is up in the air, but the kind of radical negative and externally forced changes to the mind necromancy inflicts rather blurs the line between rapid change and making something new out of the corpse of the necromancers self.

Death death is prefferable to ego death. At least if your just dead you don't have some horrid thing running around shiting on your legacy and killing those you loved, and its not like your meaningfully less dead than if your fucked up your mind badly enough.
It depends. Like, Necron-style 'stuff your soul in a box and watch it erase itself' necromancy sucks for everybody who isn't Nagash, who is a fifteen foot skeleton man that understands neither pity nor remorse nor the laments of filthy casuals.

Vampire style immortality is honestly really really close as far as those sorts of attempts go. Like, ignore the part where Nagash cursed them to suck and it'd be basically good, except for having to go out and manually get soul fuel by hurting people. Most vampires just turn into monsters because they're horrible people who choose to turn other horrible people, and it turns out upgrading yourself into a grander form of humanity is only a good change if you didn't inherently suck.

(Of course, most necromancers get neither of those, because they hate actually teaching anybody, but that's just a flaw in implementation.)

(For the record, I don't like Dhar because it's messy and it gets everywhere, and my end goal would be independently replicating the main effect of the Elixir of Immortality in a way that doesn't need you to top up on soul stuff by eating people, but that's one person's goal out of hundreds.)
 
The way to beat death are 3 ways we can pull off without becoming a abomination.



1 The first is study necromancy and create the elixee of life or just absorb life from things we kill. It's something we could pull off right now sort of. Only problem is hope don't mess it up like the vampires did. These means studying Nagash books Or liver mortis and hunting down killing vampire to study. Also the easiest way.

2 we could delve deep enough into the grey wind we can ascend. Study of Nagash books, High elf or Slann magic would all have beats and pieces of what we need. These is relatively hard since we would need to travel the world. Doable but would involve a lot of effort on our part. Also messing these up could turn into a chaos spawn.

3 Become a god. High risk and involves us doing a lot more actions with gods and dealing with divine energy. Messing these up you become a demon or die horrible with a crater we're you use to be.
4. Reverse-engineer Skalm, or whatever the Skaven use to make their higher-ups like the Council, the Grey Seers, or Ikit Fucking Claw live for centuries.
 
Or we could, y'know, not try to do the ascend-and-gain-ultimate-power thing? That's always an option. A preferable one, even. The apotheosis power-leveling munchkinry is boring.
 
4. Reverse-engineer Skalm, or whatever the Skaven use to make their higher-ups like the Council, the Grey Seers, or Ikit Fucking Claw live for centuries.

I'm not sure that one qualifies for "without becoming a[n] abomination," considering that for the first two examples I'm pretty sure the secret ingredient is Horned Rat juice and for the third it's warpstone-powered cybernetics.
 
Vampire style immortality is honestly really really close as far as those sorts of attempts go. Like, ignore the part where Nagash cursed them to suck and it'd be basically good, except for having to go out and manually get soul fuel by hurting people. Most vampires just turn into monsters because they're horrible people who choose to turn other horrible people, and it turns out upgrading yourself into a grander form of humanity is only a good change if you didn't inherently suck.

I'm not so sure about that. Like, those questing knights who got truned and went full supervillan, and all but a handful of vampires are monsters. Its to consistent for the change itself not to have serious issues. Also about nasgash, the guy was crazy in a way that looks similar to dhar madness before he started. So it might just be he's fine with it because that kind of bugfuck is his baseline.

The way to beat death are 3 ways we can pull off without becoming a abomination.



1 The first is study necromancy and create the elixee of life or just absorb life from things we kill. It's something we could pull off right now sort of. Only problem is hope don't mess it up like the vampires did. These means studying Nagash books Or liver mortis and hunting down killing vampire to study. Also the easiest way.

2 we could delve deep enough into the grey wind we can ascend. Study of Nagash books, High elf or Slann magic would all have beats and pieces of what we need. These is relatively hard since we would need to travel the world. Doable but would involve a lot of effort on our part. Also messing these up could turn into a chaos spawn.

3 Become a god. High risk and involves us doing a lot more actions with gods and dealing with divine energy. Messing these up you become a demon or die horrible with a crater we're you use to be.

Probly want to got for option 2. Halfassing transhumanisim is a terrible idea, and I can't see using necromancy on yourself as anything but half assing it.
 
Or we could, y'know, not try to do the ascend-and-gain-ultimate-power thing? That's always an option. A preferable one, even. The apotheosis power-leveling munchkinry is boring.
Yeah. Like, I think it would be cool if Mathilde became Dwarf Ancestor God of Rangers, but I would also be fine with her dying a heroic death or, better yet, dying after a long and fulfilling life, having left a good legacy, surrounded by family and friends.
 
...end goal would be independently replicating the main effect of the Elixir of Immortality in a way that doesn't need you to top up on soul stuff by eating people, but that's one person's goal out of hundreds.)
Well, there is that whole "drink dragon blood" deal that does something to vampiric souls - something that allows them to go without blood from that point onward, somehow. Whatever mechanics of that are, it gotta be pretty wild.
 
I'm not so sure about that. Like, those questing knights who got truned and went full supervillan, and all but a handful of vampires are monsters. Its to consistent for the change itself not to have serious issues. Also about nasgash, the guy was crazy in a way that looks similar to dhar madness before he started. So it might just be he's fine with it because that kind of bugfuck is his baseline.
Yeah, but questing knights aren't inherently noble, you know? And I'm pretty sure they were deserters, or some other flavor of black guard before they got started; it's a bit of a self-fulfilling truth that only jerks become vampires, because only jerks are okay with becoming vampires.

Nagash was always crazy, and I am sure that Nagash's immortality did just as much to him as the mental effects of channeling however much Dhar he did; literally nothing, because he was a supervillain.
Yeah. Like, I think it would be cool if Mathilde became Dwarf Ancestor God of Rangers, but I would also be fine with her dying a heroic death or, better yet, dying after a long and fulfilling life, having left a good legacy, surrounded by family and friends.
I think getting stabbed is always bad, and I'd never be content with dying of old age. It's a personal preference thing, so we can't ever convince each other, but dying when we might not have died is something I think is bad, and therefore not good.
 
Yes, Necromancy.

It is the only way to defeat death that isn't becoming a slave to chaos.
Our enemy isn't mortality, its the destruction of cultures caused by chaos, greenskins and undead. We have no reason to expect immortality to solve any of our problems when the elven factions make it clear that being long lived is meaningless.
Yeah, but questing knights aren't inherently noble, you know? And I'm pretty sure they were deserters, or some other flavor of black guard before they got started; it's a bit of a self-fulfilling truth that only jerks become vampires, because only jerks are okay with becoming vampires.

Nagash was always crazy, and I am sure that Nagash's immortality did just as much to him as the mental effects of channeling however much Dhar he did; literally nothing, because he was a supervillain.
Becoming a vampire means using dhar and dhar corrupts its users. Therefore all vampires are evil.
 
If long life is an issue (and to be clear, with Mathilde's lifestyle and m.o. I sincerely doubt it will be), why not just do some favors for the Shallyans? No moral dubiousness involved at all.
 
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I missed the plan discussions but there is something I would like to add I feel is relevant: We have the books from Under-Karagil, and having Johann translate them would count as an action towards the current task. I feel this is the best use we have for him since there are no more enemies to raid. So the following plan structure would be viable:

Turn A: 3 AV
Max: Receive dictation on Queekish-Khazalid dictionary
Johann: Study artifact: Translate Under-Karagril books
1: Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
2: Dictate Queekish-Khazalid dictionary
3: AV or other
4: AV or other
Overwork: AV or other

That's enough to close the book on the Queekish project, but if the thread wants to continue it Johann can continue work on the Under-Karagril books and Mathilde can help Max translate the Chaos Dwarf book for a total of three actions.
 
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