Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[FallenPears]

Actually, according to legend Shallya could be that powerful if she wasn't grounded by her father.

This is why we need a feminist revolution in the imperial pantheon.
(yes, yes, I know that legends aren't neccesarily true, but it's not like a feminist revolution would hurt anyways)

Click to shrink...

'Shallya is said to be the daughter of Verena and Morr, tempering
both death and justice with mercy. She feels the suffering of every
living thing, and as a result is constantly in tears. Some legends
say that her tears can even move her father, and that, as a result,
he refuses to see her; he knows the danger inherent in yielding to
pleas to return the dead. Other legends say that her father forbade
Shallya from helping more than one person in a
moment, lest no one die.'

Sounds like a bloody good thing Morr is keeping her grounded because 'feels the suffering of every living thing' sounds a disturbing amount like a Chaos God if some of the earlier theories in the thread about the differences between Worship vs Emotion, Order vs Chaos Gods are true.

What if the reason Morr 'forbade' her is really that he's restricting her from becoming the Chaos God of Suffering. Is Shallya a potential destroyer of worlds and the only reason she isn't currently Ruler of The Five is her father neutering her into an order god of mercy?

That makes the 'Some legends say that her tears can even move her father, and that, as a result, he refuses to see her' bit seem even more dodgy.

 

[LilyWitch]

'Shallya is said to be the daughter of Verena and Morr, tempering
both death and justice with mercy. She feels the suffering of every
living thing, and as a result is constantly in tears. Some legends
say that her tears can even move her father, and that, as a result,
he refuses to see her; he knows the danger inherent in yielding to
pleas to return the dead. Other legends say that her father forbade
Shallya from helping more than one person in a
moment, lest no one die.'

Sounds like a bloody good thing Morr is keeping her grounded because 'feels the suffering of every living thing' sounds a disturbing amount like a Chaos God if some of the earlier theories in the thread about the differences between Worship vs Emotion, Order vs Chaos Gods are true.

What if the reason Morr 'forbade' her is really that he's restricting her from becoming the Chaos God of Suffering. Is Shallya a potential destroyer of worlds and the only reason she isn't currently Ruler of The Five is her father neutering her into an order god of mercy?

That makes the 'Some legends say that her tears can even move her father, and that, as a result, he refuses to see her' bit seem even more dodgy.

Click to shrink...

I think you are reading way to much into a throwaway textbox written by a freelancer in a tie-in product. This legend is just there for the same reason every religion has some way of justifying death.

 

[ninjafish]

I think you are reading way to much into a throwaway textbox written by a freelancer in a tie-in product. This legend is just there for the same reason every religion has some way of justifying death.

Click to shrink...

IE they can't justify it?

Morr's an asshole and nagash did nothing wrong in killing him and creating a realm of undeath instead of regular death.

Undeath is much better.

Morr has just given humans a case of species wide stockholm syndrome.

But Brave Nagash struck forth a Great blow against his horrific tyranny!

Death can Die my friends! And we can kill it!

Be brave! Step forth for a bolder, immortal future!

 

[BurnNote]

One interesting thought: The dwarfs are screwed by the presence of the winds, coming from the broken warp gates. But they were fine before. So presumably, the aether doesn't cause them problems. So how does our snakejuice, which is aether not sevir, interact with dwarfs? There's all sorts of interesting possibilities there.

 

[Omegahugger]

Sounds like a bloody good thing Morr is keeping her grounded because 'feels the suffering of every living thing' sounds a disturbing amount like a Chaos God if some of the earlier theories in the thread about the differences between Worship vs Emotion, Order vs Chaos Gods are true.

What if the reason Morr 'forbade' her is really that he's restricting her from becoming the Chaos God of Suffering. Is Shallya a potential destroyer of worlds and the only reason she isn't currently Ruler of The Five is her father neutering her into an order god of mercy?

That makes the 'Some legends say that her tears can even move her father, and that, as a result, he refuses to see her' bit seem even more dodgy.

Click to shrink...

On one hand, having an extra Chaos God would abviously be a problem.

On the other hand, it could prevent another another Abel situation.

... You know what, how about we give this theoretical Ayllahs lady a try and we'll see if not dying can solve our dwarven population problems!

 

[Alliterate]

So presumably, the aether doesn't cause them problems. So how our snakejuice, which is aether not sevir, interact with dwarfs? There's all sorts of interesting possibilities there.

Click to shrink...

Let's get brewin'.

-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.

Click to shrink...

Hmm. Mathildes' Magical Mead?
No...
Mathildes' Aethyric Trippel-Head Improved Libation Distillation Expectation Ale.

 

[Glau]

Ok, I'm in favor of helping Shallya take over the pantheon. Seems like it would lead to some pretty substantial improvements in quality of life all over. All we need to do is have Ranald mug Sigmar and Morr, and pass power back to Shallya as a way of settling the old debt.

I'm also in favor of trying to hook up the Lady and Ulric, because they'd make a cute couple and there is some intriguing synergy between their cults.

 

[FallenPears]

On one hand, having an extra Chaos God would abviously be a problem.

On the other hand, it could prevent another another Abel situation.

... You know what, how about we give this theoretical Ayllahs lady a try and we'll see if not dying can solve our dwarven population problems!

Click to shrink...

Well when Ayllahs reunites the living with everyone who had ever died and prevents more deaths I don't believe anyone will be worried about population decline!

Plus the remaining major Gods in the world would certainly be happy with the new state of affairs.

Khorne could be satisfied with wars, combat and bloodshed, except nobody would actually die.

Nurgle could send out all the diseases he wants and people will just have them forever.

There will be plots which make the current plots of elder races look like childs play because everyone will have all eternity to create them and get better at doing so, so Tzeench will be happy.

Slaanesh will be able to voyeur up all of the Most Fucked Up Orgies Ever he wants, because people can do some really kinky shit now they don't die and what else are they supposed to do with eternity?

And of course Ayllahs, Queen of Chaos and Goddess of Suffering, will be so happy that everyone is united in their suffering as they fight, fuck, plot against and puke on each other for all eternity.

It would even make sense that She would be the leader God of Chaos because she's the only Chaos God that all of the others feed into and thrive in so perfectly; they all generate and thrive in suffering! It's almost like She's been the missing piece for the perfect World of Chaos all along...

(Rapidly approaching headcanon status as silly as it is, good job Morr keep it up for the love of all that is holy. Is this thread madness?)

 

[chocolote12]

The only people who are supposed to know Khazalid are Dawongr and Dawi.

Click to shrink...

Makes you wonder about the Sigmar Priests who go around teaching it as a secret language amongst each other.

Ayllahs

Click to shrink...

I immediately read this as All-Ya'll and it stuck. (The especially terrifying thing is that the spellcheck doesn't detect that as an error. )

 

[Akasha]

@Omegahugger your argument is well thought out and completely logical.

Like it always is.

Truly we should heed your great wisdom more often, but most of the thread is afraid to stand up in the face of adversity and defy all convention, so we don't.

Click to shrink...

So long as he keeps voting for Snek Juice, he has my soul.

Souls grow back, anyway.

 

[deathofrats0808]

I'm also in favor of trying to hook up the Lady and Ulric, because they'd make a cute couple and there is some intriguing synergy between their cults.

Click to shrink...

The Lady might be a married Elf.

 

[Omegahugger]

The Lady might be a married Elf.

Click to shrink...

Right, and murdering her spouse for the sake if a demented pairing would be unethical and wrong.

... I think that's what they told me at the shipper penitentiary. I will admit I tend to zone out whenever I visit.

 

[Taut_Templar]

Personally speaking, I disagree with the quite frankly absurd amount of shit Sigmar has gotten from the thread.

First of all, lemme clarify that I understand why Mathilde would be angry with him and the Imperial Cult. Her experiences with the faith have been universally negative, whether it be because she's a wizard, a Ranaldian, or the tragedy with Abelheim. Not to mention the fact that Sigmarism is not!christianity and thus contractually obligated to have their church be ludicrously corrupt and incompetent. It's hardly irrational for Mathilde to hold a grudge.

The Thread, on the other hand, doesn't really have the same justification to take this vendetta so far. Being pissed at the Cult - okay, fine. Literally every appearance of them has them acting either actively malevolent or criminally incompetent. The one exception of a sympathetic devout Sigmarite was Abelheim - and that leads into the second mess.

There seems to be some sorta absolute conclusion that Sigmar 'abandoned' Ableheim, or at least sacrificed him for some reason. To be frank, we have no idea what actually happened.

Sigmar is not God. He is not omnipotent, able to spread his influence and energy tirelessly. Priests, when they try to summon his power and perform miracles in his name, roll dice. Or IC, it's an effort with a chance of failure. Doing this is not effortless, trivial, or certain to succeed, even under ideal circumstances. We don't know what actually happened IC when Kasmir flubbed his roll - does anyone here actually understand how being a lowercase god works? Does anyone know how many crisis's were on his plate at that moment?

It's a somewhat moot point - really, we don't and never will know. Not unless Sigmar himself sees fit to show up and explain himself. But, c'mon people. At least try and approach the situation with a bit of objectivity and contemplate the idea that Sigmar might actually not be a butt.

 

[ninjafish]

Personally speaking, I disagree with the quite frankly absurd amount of shit Sigmar has gotten from the thread.

First of all, lemme clarify that I understand why Mathilde would be angry with him and the Imperial Cult. Her experiences with the faith have been universally negative, whether it be because she's a wizard, a Ranaldian, or the tragedy with Abelheim. Not to mention the fact that Sigmarism is not!christianity and thus contractually obligated to have their church be ludicrously corrupt and incompetent. It's hardly irrational for Mathilde to hold a grudge.

The Thread, on the other hand, doesn't really have the same justification to take this vendetta so far. Being pissed at the Cult - okay, fine. Literally every appearance of them has them acting either actively malevolent or criminally incompetent. The one exception of a sympathetic devout Sigmarite was Abelheim - and that leads into the second mess.

There seems to be some sorta absolute conclusion that Sigmar 'abandoned' Ableheim, or at least sacrificed him for some reason. To be frank, we have no idea what actually happened.

Sigmar is not God. He is not omnipotent, able to spread his influence and energy tirelessly. Priests, when they try to summon his power and perform miracles in his name, roll dice. Or IC, it's an effort with a chance of failure. Doing this is not effortless, trivial, or certain to succeed, even under ideal circumstances. We don't know what actually happened IC when Kasmir flubbed his roll - does anyone here actually understand how being a lowercase god works? Does anyone know how many crisis's were on his plate at that moment?

It's a somewhat moot point - really, we don't and never will know. Not unless Sigmar himself sees fit to show up and explain himself. But, c'mon people. At least try and approach the situation with a bit of objectivity and contemplate the idea that Sigmar might actually not be a butt.

Click to shrink...

No.

Sigmar is the biggest flabbiest butt.

 

[Glau]

At least try and approach the situation with a bit of objectivity and contemplate the idea that Sigmar might actually not be a butt.

Click to shrink...

The impression I'm getting is that this thread full of ranaldites is cutting Sigmar just as much slack as he cuts renald.

The Lady might be a married Elf.

Click to shrink...

Might bring the key word. Besides, she needs to move on up to someone in her league! Goddesses deserve better than some scrub elf as a consort!

 

[Redshirt Army]

Personally speaking, I disagree with the quite frankly absurd amount of shit Sigmar has gotten from the thread.

First of all, lemme clarify that I understand why Mathilde would be angry with him and the Imperial Cult. Her experiences with the faith have been universally negative, whether it be because she's a wizard, a Ranaldian, or the tragedy with Abelheim. Not to mention the fact that Sigmarism is not!christianity and thus contractually obligated to have their church be ludicrously corrupt and incompetent. It's hardly irrational for Mathilde to hold a grudge.

The Thread, on the other hand, doesn't really have the same justification to take this vendetta so far. Being pissed at the Cult - okay, fine. Literally every appearance of them has them acting either actively malevolent or criminally incompetent. The one exception of a sympathetic devout Sigmarite was Abelheim - and that leads into the second mess.

There seems to be some sorta absolute conclusion that Sigmar 'abandoned' Ableheim, or at least sacrificed him for some reason. To be frank, we have no idea what actually happened.

Sigmar is not God. He is not omnipotent, able to spread his influence and energy tirelessly. Priests, when they try to summon his power and perform miracles in his name, roll dice. Or IC, it's an effort with a chance of failure. Doing this is not effortless, trivial, or certain to succeed, even under ideal circumstances. We don't know what actually happened IC when Kasmir flubbed his roll - does anyone here actually understand how being a lowercase god works? Does anyone know how many crisis's were on his plate at that moment?

It's a somewhat moot point - really, we don't and never will know. Not unless Sigmar himself sees fit to show up and explain himself. But, c'mon people. At least try and approach the situation with a bit of objectivity and contemplate the idea that Sigmar might actually not be a butt.

Click to shrink...

Objectively speaking, I do agree with you that Sigmar is generally speaking a much more positive influence than Sigmarites are, and that Mathilde having a bigger grudge against the god than the (ludicrously corrupt) church is clearly due to her having some lingering trauma from Abelheim's death.

I do, however, think it's hilarious to roleplay Mathilde being petty towards Sigmar, and don't intend to stop.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

First of all, lemme clarify that I understand why Mathilde would be angry with him and the Imperial Cult. Her experiences with the faith have been universally negative, whether it be because she's a wizard, a Ranaldian, or the tragedy with Abelheim. Not to mention the fact that Sigmarism is not!christianity and thus contractually obligated to have their church be ludicrously corrupt and incompetent. It's hardly irrational for Mathilde to hold a grudge.

Click to shrink...

Don't forget the current situation with them acting like a bunch of idiots, or the whole line o nonsense with Kasmir.

might actually not be a butt.

Click to shrink...

I can accept that Ableheim's death isn't his fault and that he's a butt.

Sigmar is not a nice god, that's OK its not really in his portfolio.

positive influence

Click to shrink...

Probably the best way to put a god one of whose divine gifts as I recall makes one irrationally paranoid.

 

[deathofrats0808]

Might bring the key word. Besides, she needs to move on up to someone in her league! Goddesses deserve better than some scrub elf as a consort!

Click to shrink...

Canon has her married to Asuryan you realize?

 

[TimEd]

It's a somewhat moot point - really, we don't and never will know. Not unless Sigmar himself sees fit to show up and explain himself. But, c'mon people. At least try and approach the situation with a bit of objectivity and contemplate the idea that Sigmar might actually not be a butt.

Click to shrink...

you say that, but built it up from this

Being pissed at the Cult - okay, fine. Literally every appearance of them has them acting either actively malevolent or criminally incompetent. The one exception of a sympathetic devout Sigmarite was Abelheim - and that leads into the second mess.

Click to shrink...

Sigmar is affected by his followers and vice versa. The Cult of Sigmar is our (and Mathilde's) main way of interacting with Sigmar himself. So if the Cult is being a butt, has been a butt, and is continuing to be a butt, then it is perfectly justified and rational to hate on Sigmar, especially with how restrained this thread has been regarding the whole matter. A good portion even voted to forgive Sigmar and waste a Trait on it even with there being no change about his Cult being butts.

 

[wrecksalot]

Personally speaking, I disagree with the quite frankly absurd amount of shit Sigmar has gotten from the thread.

First of all, lemme clarify that I understand why Mathilde would be angry with him and the Imperial Cult. Her experiences with the faith have been universally negative, whether it be because she's a wizard, a Ranaldian, or the tragedy with Abelheim. Not to mention the fact that Sigmarism is not!christianity and thus contractually obligated to have their church be ludicrously corrupt and incompetent. It's hardly irrational for Mathilde to hold a grudge.

The Thread, on the other hand, doesn't really have the same justification to take this vendetta so far. Being pissed at the Cult - okay, fine. Literally every appearance of them has them acting either actively malevolent or criminally incompetent. The one exception of a sympathetic devout Sigmarite was Abelheim - and that leads into the second mess.

There seems to be some sorta absolute conclusion that Sigmar 'abandoned' Ableheim, or at least sacrificed him for some reason. To be frank, we have no idea what actually happened.

Sigmar is not God. He is not omnipotent, able to spread his influence and energy tirelessly. Priests, when they try to summon his power and perform miracles in his name, roll dice. Or IC, it's an effort with a chance of failure. Doing this is not effortless, trivial, or certain to succeed, even under ideal circumstances. We don't know what actually happened IC when Kasmir flubbed his roll - does anyone here actually understand how being a lowercase god works? Does anyone know how many crisis's were on his plate at that moment?

It's a somewhat moot point - really, we don't and never will know. Not unless Sigmar himself sees fit to show up and explain himself. But, c'mon people. At least try and approach the situation with a bit of objectivity and contemplate the idea that Sigmar might actually not be a butt.

Click to shrink...

But we know that gods can perform miracles without any divine spellcasters present, as was shown with Ranald's blessing, and there could not possibly have been too many more important things for him to worry about, because there are only so many Elector Counts in His Empire. In conclusion, sogmar is a butt

 

[deathofrats0808]

But we know that gods can perform miracles without any divine spellcasters present, as was shown with Ranald's blessing, and there could not possibly have been too many more important things for him to worry about, because there are only so many Elector Counts in His Empire. In conclusion, sogmar is a butt

Click to shrink...

Thinking an Elector Count is more important to Sigmar simply because of their position is a fairly large assumption. As is the idea that Sigmar knew Abelheim needed help at all.

 

[Glau]

Canon has her married to Asuryan you realize?

Click to shrink...

Who is a bit of a scrub elf. Sits at his pyramid, never talks, and I mean, seriously, what does a goddess have to do to get his attention?

Plus there's the reference to a daughter with Arloth, right? So she's already looking for someone else who can do for her what Asuryan can't.

 

[deathofrats0808]

Who is a bit of a scrub elf. Sits at his pyramid, never talks, and I mean, seriously, what does a goddess have to do to get his attention?

Plus there's the reference to a daughter with Arloth, right? So she's already looking for someone else who can do for her what Asuryan can't.

Click to shrink...

She has kids with Asuryan too. But yes, she also canonically has a kid with Araloth.

 

[LilyWitch]

She has kids with Asuryan too. But yes, she also canonically has a kid with Araloth.

Click to shrink...

In general the Endtimes is not considerd canon by the posters in this quest.

 

[deathofrats0808]

In general the Endtimes is not considerd canon by the posters in this quest.

Click to shrink...

That's sort of irrelevant for a couple of reasons. 1) It is canon, whether you like it or not. 2) It may also be canon for this quest, although that's not been confirmed and is unlikely to come up.