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From the other side:
Had i been in Finubar's place, i would try to spin it that Asarnil's action were in accordance with my orders while having a quiet chat with him to explain why, while justified, his actions could endanger the whole realm in the future if lesser elves try to imitate him.
Let him have his parade and congratulate him publicly on his mastery of tactics and saving the people, while preserving chain of command, because adapting to new information is what generals are for, anyone can follow orders.
 
Idk that's an incredibly lame reason not to have kids on Malus, the world is always out to get everyone on that planet. Heck everyone has to deal with Morrslieb once a month, and the wildlife isn't exactly a pushover. Tbh the average dwarf is probably safer than the average human when they're born.
The average human child doesnt turn to stone under the sky
 
We're a famous general and war hero, and we couldn't replicate most of the gambles we made. Actually running an army with an actual doctrine only works if everybody buys into it.
WEBER doctrine, of course, is so self-evidently the superior choice that buy-in is never in doubt.
(Totes disappointed not to see the option for a paper on our groundbreaking military strategy, Warfare Execution Blitz Engagement and Reconnaissance :V)
One in two Dwarf Kings agree!
 
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It's probably most accurately interpreted as both sides having their heads so far up their ass that they're escalating at every step:

-Asarnil walks off with part of the army to pick his own fight and wins the fight.
--He's actually not at all in the wrong here, in a medieval equivalent army, the field leader is given a great deal of independent authority, including the authority to take said army to engage an enemy on his own initiative like Kazador could have done if we just kept him waiting too long. Like we could have peeled off the wizards of Eight Peaks to do whatever we wanted when we got assigned as their warleader.

-Asarnil expects to be given a parade(or equivalent) in honor of his victory.
--This is reasonable...taken in a vacuum consisting ONLY of the battle and the victory.
--Its like if Mathilde took the Undumgi from their Caldera post during the Battle of Karagril and went to assault Moulder on her own initiative, winning, but if Belegar needed a pike unit in the Caldera at the time...whoops?

-Finubar tells Asarnil to meet him, possibly to get an after action report explaining what the heck.
--This is reasonable by the standards of anyone except maybe drama queens.

-Asarnil is outraged by the idea of needing to answer questions instead of being immediately honored as the hero of the day. He flies off in a snit, making a big show of it.
--This is unreasonable by any standard. Your King calls you for an audience, you don't refuse him like that.

-Finubar, as a sovereign, cannot take being disrespected like that without damaging his authority(if Asarnil had just stomped off maybe, but flying off on a dragon is not subtle and certainly the gossip item of the year). He doubles down and tells Asarnil to show up or lose his citizenship.
--While probably not the best plan, such a demand is well within his authority. And however much I like Asarnil, Finubar certainly considers his authority being more important than the feelings of one hero unit.

-Asarnil doubles down and loses his citizenship, pending a public apology.
--This works out fine for Finubar, he has more dragonriders, even if Asarnil is a really good one, and heck, even in exile Asarnil is furthering his foreign policy, by showing how badass elves are, by fighting gribblies in the Old World without stepping on human toes by deploying foreign militaries on sovereign soil, and by keeping one loud and clearly unable to control himself Caladorian prince out of his court.

Now, this all worked out in our favor, Asarnil could have been any random Proud Caladorian Prince back home continuing to push for isolationism or gloryhounding.

Instead, he's applying dragon to solve problems, at the expense of merely money.
 
Exactly, he only cared about the public perception, as a private meeting would only affect military doctrine which is what was being argued.
But public perception affects military doctrine! This is not modern world where they sit down and iron things out in AARs. This had to be considered wrong publicly or the next general might do it anyway.
and i think Asarnil bailing is entirely Fubinar's failure to actually manage the situation
You are agreeing with me, but then go and disagree with me? :eyebrow:

i would put him on "Shave the dwarf embassador" levels of political savvy, he lost a brilliant general and hero when at best, the message he wanted to get across is "Don't ever question my orders, even if you know better" which he could have simply told to the people that needed to hear it.
I don't think it is in any way fair to compare him to Caledor the Idiot. If anything else consider this: Arsanil had dragons: had he not acted impulsively he could have asked permission(his surprise to Finubar's reaction shows that he did not) or at least given warning before bailing(he might have done this). Finubar's actions were smart when thinking about military doctrine: keep people from doing stupid shit. They were problematic politically since he called out a victorious Dragon Prince. He prioritized future victories over political gain.
 
They have heavy cavalry, who Warmaster called knights. I'm unsure if they have any of the cultural implications behind the word, or they just picked up the concept of heavy cavalry=knights from all the wars they fought with Bretonnia and the Empire.
I mean, if the Arabyans are anything like medieval Arabs, concepts like Futuwwa (chivalry), Furusiyya (equestrianism) and Ghazi (campaigning warriors) would exist and be equivalent to Bretonnian and Imperial expectations. And given their proximity to Ulthuan by trade, we can't be sure that the Arabyans don't have some understanding of Elvish chivalry either.

I mean, really, the concept of knighthood isn't some unique great leap forward by the West. Many societies developed some concept of warrior nobility or heavy cavalry at some point.
 
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He flies off in a snit, making a big show of it.

He didn't just fly off. He straight-up said that he no longer considers himself a subject of the crown of Ulthuan. What could Finubar do after that except doubling down? You can't just ignore such a challenge to your authority.

even in exile Asarnil is furthering his foreign policy

That is true. Asarnil's entry even has a a special note that unlike other mercenaries he only offers his services to the "good guys" armies - HE, WE, Dwarves, Bretonnia, Empire and Lizardmen.
 
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Had i been in Finubar's place, i would try to spin it that Asarnil's action were in accordance with my orders while having a quiet chat with him to explain why, while justified, his actions could endanger the whole realm in the future if lesser elves try to imitate him.
Let him have his parade and congratulate him publicly on his mastery of tactics and saving the people, while preserving chain of command, because adapting to new information is what generals are for, anyone can follow orders.
Missed this one. Looks like an elegant solution, but depends on other people not knowing that Arsanil disobeyed.
 
I mean, if the Arabyans are anything like medieval Arabs, concepts like Futuwwa (chivalry), Furusiyya (equestrianism) and Ghazi (campaigning warriors) would exist and be equivalent to Bretonnian and Imperial expectations. And given their proximity to Ulthuan by trade, we can't be sure that the Arabyans don't have some understanding of Elvish chivalry either.
While that's true, GW don't really base their blatant expys off reality, they base them off legends, myths and stereotypes. The perception of such places, rather than them as they were.
 
Missed this one. Looks like an elegant solution, but depends on other people not knowing that Arsanil disobeyed.
Asarnil totes would fly a giant banner saying he disobeyed if he could get one.
He didn't just fly off. He straight-up said that he is no longer a subject of the crown of Ulthuan.



That is true. Asarnil's entry even has a a special note that unlike other mercenaries he only offers his services to the "good guys" armies - HE, WE, Dwarves, Bretonnia, Empire and Lizardmen.
Right.
Finubar: "Just as planned. And the best part is now Thorgrim can take elf aid without officially taking elf aid."
 
While that's true, GW don't really base their blatant expys off reality, they base them off legends, myths and stereotypes. The perception of such places, rather than them as they were.

That explains why Poland Kislev has the Winged Hussars Gryphon Legion, yes.

Or why the Crusades Errantry Wars into the Middle East Araby happened.

That is true. Asarnil's entry even has a a special note that unlike other mercenaries he only offers his services to the "good guys" armies - HE, WE, Dwarves, Bretonnia, Empire and Lizardmen.
Only an Elf of Caledor would take such offense from a fellow Elf that he would in turn sell his lance to a Dwarfish paymaster.
 
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That explains why Kislev has the Winged Hussars Gryphon Legion, yes.

Or why the Crusades Errantry Wars into Araby happened.
See there's a problem with those renamings. In that Kislev's premier cavalry are Winged Lancers and that those were Crusades into Araby, that's what they were called. GW are not very subtle.
 
See there's a problem with those renamings. In that Kislev's premier cavalry are Winged Lancers and that those were Crusades into Araby, that's what they were called. GW are not very subtle.
But you see my general point, yes? Araby doesn't just have to be Genies and slave-trading.

Also, has anyone else ever just seen Kislev as an abbrogation of 'Key Slavs'?
 
Finubar: "Just as planned. And the best part is now Thorgrim can take elf aid without officially taking elf aid."

Maybe he hoped Asarnil would help out the Old World against the Everchosens attack. After all, Asarnil left Ulthuan around the same time as Teclis if i remember right. Actually makes me wonder why Asarnil didn't fly towards Praag.
 
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But you see my general point, yes? Araby doesn't just have to be Genies and slave-trading.

Also, has anyone else ever just seen Kislev as an abbrogation of 'Key Slavs'?
I always just assumed that it is a reference to Kiev.

Maybe he hoped Asarnil would help out the Old World against the Everchosens attack. After all, Asarnil left around the same time as Teclis if i remember right. Actually makes me wonder why Asarnil didn't fly towards Praag.

He didn't actually have a plan when he departed. He flew towards Tilea because there were elven colonies there once, before the War of the Beard. Instead he found human cities, and some cunning Tilean prince realized how lucky he is and quickly sold him the whole "mercenary" idea and hired him against a rival city.
 
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Maybe he hoped Asarnil would help out the Old World against the Everchosens attack. After all, Asarnil left around the same time as Teclis if i remember right. Actually makes me wonder why Asarnil didn't fly towards Praag.
Asarnil is a Proud Caladorian Prince.
If in exile he's going to be looking for opportunities to show off how big his dick dragon is.

I'd guess he'd have joined the Order forces, though the specific force he's with is more in doubt.
 
But you see my general point, yes? Araby doesn't just have to be Genies and slave-trading.

Also, has anyone else ever just seen Kislev as an abbrogation of 'Key Slavs'?
Oh that's entirely true, but look at how Bretonnia is written, it's full of cliches. And it doesn't typically better the further away from the more developed countries you get. Of course, the quest can write whatever into canon, I'm just saying I doubt GW bothered doing the research to find things that aren't a popular stereotype when they were designing what little of Araby ever got mentioned.

Kislev is etymologically based off Kievan Rus' IIRC.
 
See there's a problem with those renamings. In that Kislev's premier cavalry are Winged Lancers and that those were Crusades into Araby, that's what they were called. GW are not very subtle.
And don't get me started on GW leaving every language it can reach in a humiliatingly mutaliated, yet still recognisable shape. Kislevan names make me facepalm and I understand Reikspiel is not better off.
 
Maybe he hoped Asarnil would help out the Old World against the Everchosens attack. After all, Asarnil left Ulthuan around the same time as Teclis if i remember right. Actually makes me wonder why Asarnil didn't fly towards Praag.
Asarnil is a Proud Caladorian Prince.
If in exile he's going to be looking for opportunities to show off how big his dick dragon is.

I'd guess he'd have joined the Order forces, though the specific force he's with is more in doubt.
IIRC he left before Teclis did, and so never heard that the Empire needed help. He fucked off to Tilea to murder a bunch of helpless soldiers from Miragliano instead.
 
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