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I suppose. Anyways, changing the subject, I've been thinking about the Skaven techonlogy, now that we're getting closer to the end of the war turns. While it might be difficult to get the dwarves to outright reverse engineer things, how difficult might it be to just use the underlying principles in developing new and even more terrifying weapons? Like... cannons. Dwarves like cannons, and we've already started innovation there, but if we got Gotri some copies of, say, the Skaven machine gun schematics, might we get gattling cannons? or maybe actual automatic rifles like in modern times? Or real tanks that don't require steam and are liable to blow up at any time? Of course, I doubt the tech would be anywhere near modern levels, but even rudimentary versions could completely change how the Dwarven war machine works, and put them on at least equal footing with the Skaven. hell, even the gyrocoptors getting an electricity upgrade might make them more effective.
Dwarves want things clean and authentic. I think we'd be better off putting our Wizards on it, we got an Engineer Bright, and two Golds, reverse engineer it on wizard time, and then Adela just casually chats with Gotri about engineering principles during their lab time.

Thats how you 'launder' the ideas anyways.
 
That seems... an excessive worry?

It happened once, right after we pulled that trick stealing 2% of Mork's MP.
Maybe it is! :D

It'd be convenient if it was, and we'll get some information in that direction here shortly on what sorts of situations we can expect Godly interference in.
 
Even better, it brings up the question of whether there is any real limit on runes at all. Like, we previously believed you could only stick three runes on something, but now we have an object with five. Who says it has to stop there? Bok might only have five runes because that's all he needed to do his job. What if we could put seven, or nine, or even more on something? Unlikely, I know, but it's possible until we find out more.
Maybe it's only prime-numbered number of Runes allowed when more than 1.
1,2,3,5 Runes are acceptable but 4 Runes is not.
 
Dwarves want things clean and authentic. I think we'd be better off putting our Wizards on it, we got an Engineer Bright, and two Golds, reverse engineer it on wizard time, and then Adela just casually chats with Gotri about engineering principles during their lab time.

Thats how you 'launder' the ideas anyways.
Eh, I figured we could use that disdain for shit engineering to prompt them into making something better and more reliable. Talking about reverse-engineering Skaven stuff though, I wonder if it would be at all possible to create a reverse of the Dreaded Thirteenth Spell, essentially turning Skaven into humans. we would need to either see it in action or find some sort of spellbook describing its mechanics, of course, but if anyone could do it, it would be Mathilde. Windsage and Avatar--if it's partially divine--plus the ulgu conceptuality of stealing or fooling the Horned Rat into releasing his grip on their souls would probably lend themselves well to that. We might even be able to turn Qrech, if we managed it!
 
Eh, I figured we could use that disdain for shit engineering to prompt them into making something better and more reliable. Talking about reverse-engineering Skaven stuff though, I wonder if it would be at all possible to create a reverse of the Dreaded Thirteenth Spell, essentially turning Skaven into humans. we would need to either see it in action or find some sort of spellbook describing its mechanics, of course, but if anyone could do it, it would be Mathilde. Windsage and Avatar--if it's partially divine--plus the ulgu conceptuality of stealing or fooling the Horned Rat into releasing his grip on their souls would probably lend themselves well to that. We might even be able to turn Qrech, if we managed it!
Extremely unlikely. Extremely.
 
Eh, I figured we could use that disdain for shit engineering to prompt them into making something better and more reliable. Talking about reverse-engineering Skaven stuff though, I wonder if it would be at all possible to create a reverse of the Dreaded Thirteenth Spell, essentially turning Skaven into humans. we would need to either see it in action or find some sort of spellbook describing its mechanics, of course, but if anyone could do it, it would be Mathilde. Windsage and Avatar--if it's partially divine--plus the ulgu conceptuality of stealing or fooling the Horned Rat into releasing his grip on their souls would probably lend themselves well to that. We might even be able to turn Qrech, if we managed it!
The Thirteenth is Divine, and I assume its less Turning Humans Into and rather Turns Target Into Skaven, which is within the Horned Rat's divine portfolio.

The path to THAT is probably looking at the Ancestor Runes' unexpected effects when used on humans.
 
Given we have the full Skaven tech library we don't actually need to reverse-engineer shit—blueprint and principles are right there and spelled out. There will be quite a bit of normal engineering to make it not a Warpstone-run monstrosity and producible with the human techbase but actually figuring out how it's put together and works is done.

As for how it influences the dwarves, I'd rather take a more passive approach there. I bet they'd be happy to know about capabilities and vulnerabilities despite the source, but if they'd actually want to lift ideas or more is debatable even for the radical we've got in place now. If it's something he'd do without prompting then more power to him, but if it's a bridge too far for him then even if we could convince him it would still be at least borderline heretical for the rest of the dwarves and thus not something that could be disseminated as well as a potential diplo landmine.
 
The Thirteenth is Divine, and I assume its less Turning Humans Into and rather Turns Target Into Skaven, which is within the Horned Rat's divine portfolio.

The path to THAT is probably looking at the Ancestor Runes' unexpected effects when used on humans.
Or we can learn Theurgy, and use Ranald's portfolio of stealing things and protecting from tyrants to do it. though yeah, figuring out how different gods effect creatures not of their patron race would probably also help.
Given we have the full Skaven tech library we don't actually need to reverse-engineer shit—blueprint and principles are right there and spelled out. There will be quite a bit of normal engineering to make it not a Warpstone-run monstrosity and producible with the human techbase but actually figuring out how it's put together and works is done.

As for how it influences the dwarves, I'd rather take a more passive approach there. I bet they'd be happy to know about capabilities and vulnerabilities despite the source, but if they'd actually want to lift ideas or more is debatable even for the radical we've got in place now. If it's something he'd do without prompting then more power to him, but if it's a bridge too far for him then even if we could convince him it would still be at least borderline heretical for the rest of the dwarves and thus not something that could be disseminated as well as a potential diplo landmine.
Eh, I wasn't really meaning anything about reverse-engineering, but basically using the knowledge and techniques to engineer new things. On the other hand, you've got a fair point.
 
I mean, we have a bunch of mad lads in Nuln who'd be ecstatic to launder any mechanical processes we want to implement in a way that doesn't tip off the Under Empire that we just walked off with the complete encyclopedia of all their cool stuff, assuming we'd want to do that.
Or we can learn Theurgy, and use Ranald's portfolio of stealing things and protecting from tyrants to do it. though yeah, figuring out how different gods effect creatures not of their patron race would probably also help.
You can't just skip all the difficulties by claiming it falls under one thematic or another; by that logic anything's possible. Ranald takes stuff from people, but he doesn't regularly mutate entire populaces so hard they spontaneously and permanently transform into a relatively stable and self-replenishing species, which the Horned Rat does. If Ranald stole the spell, my closest guess would be that other people just wouldn't be able to cast it until they got it back, not that he could turn it into its exact opposite.
 
I mean, we have a bunch of mad lads in Nuln who'd be ecstatic to launder any mechanical processes we want to implement in a way that doesn't tip off the Under Empire that we just walked off with the complete encyclopedia of all their cool stuff, assuming we'd want to do that.
We don't even have to go to Nuln. We've got a branch of the Imperial Gunnery School right here in Karak Eight Peaks now, thanks to Kazrik, and that could be expanded for actual production instead of just research.

Might actually be better here, since Under-Nuln is still around while the major Skaven presence in Karak Eight Peaks is gone.
 
For laundering the engineering secrets we got the gold order will have something figured out. It's primary Johann's project anyway.
 
I mean, we have a bunch of mad lads in Nuln who'd be ecstatic to launder any mechanical processes we want to implement in a way that doesn't tip off the Under Empire that we just walked off with the complete encyclopedia of all their cool stuff, assuming we'd want to do that.

You can't just skip all the difficulties by claiming it falls under one thematic or another; by that logic anything's possible. Ranald takes stuff from people, but he doesn't regularly mutate entire populaces so hard they spontaneously and permanently transform into a relatively stable and self-replenishing species, which the Horned Rat does. If Ranald stole the spell, my closest guess would be that other people just wouldn't be able to cast it until they got it back, not that he could turn it into its exact opposite.
I wasn't saying it wouldbe skipping difficulties, like at all. We still habe to learn basic Theurgy, figure out the general shape of the spell, rework it to apply for Ranald and humanity, all sorts of stuff. And I meant Ranald would be staling the Skaven, not the spell.
 
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How much do you think Gotri would give for an item of illusion that lets him enroll in the gunnery school under a false name, and have a career as a mad genius 'human' who gets to build all the crazy stuff even the liberal dwarves would hate?
 
Dwarves can't be in contact with magic permanently without going to stone.
Dwarves inherently reject magic, but if he wore a hat that just so happened to project the illusion of being worn by a short guy I don't see any point where it'd actually be running through him. :V

It'd probably just be easier to disguise him as a fat guy who doesn't usually leave his workshop or something, though, or use an actor when other people want to meet him.
 
Dwarves inherently reject magic, but if he wore a hat that just so happened to project the illusion of being worn by a short guy I don't see any point where it'd actually be running through him. :V

It'd probably just be easier to disguise him as a fat guy who doesn't usually leave his workshop or something, though, or use an actor when other people want to meet him.
It's probably be easier to make a fake identity and just keep sending papers in.
 
You can't just skip all the difficulties by claiming it falls under one thematic or another; by that logic anything's possible. Ranald takes stuff from people, but he doesn't regularly mutate entire populaces so hard they spontaneously and permanently transform into a relatively stable and self-replenishing species, which the Horned Rat does. If Ranald stole the spell, my closest guess would be that other people just wouldn't be able to cast it until they got it back, not that he could turn it into its exact opposite.
Yeah, a Ranaldite Reversal of the Thirteenth, if its even possible, is probably just straight out stealing the transformation...then calling in Shallya to fix the traumatized broken mess left after you stole it.
 
So… assuming the things go to plan Mathilde is about to get a kill count in the hundreds of thousands. I'm unsure if this is something to celebrate or be worry about but I suspect the answer will involve large quantities of alcohol either way.
 
So… assuming the things go to plan Mathilde is about to get a kill count in the hundreds of thousands. I'm unsure if this is something to celebrate or be worry about but I suspect the answer will involve large quantities of alcohol either way.
It would certainly be a nice boast.
Random dwarf: "I've killed hundreds of greenskins!"
Other random dwarf: "Fool, i've killed thousands!"
Mathilde: "Bitches, please."
 
So… assuming the things go to plan Mathilde is about to get a kill count in the hundreds of thousands. I'm unsure if this is something to celebrate or be worry about but I suspect the answer will involve large quantities of alcohol either way.

Honestly, this is the type of thing Khorne would approve of. Initially, when he first hears about it. A single person killed hundreds of thousands of Orks in a single fight? Oh yeah, he'd love it. And then he'd find out it was a magic thing and then the salt and rage comes in.
 
Honestly, this is the type of thing Khorne would approve of. Initially, when he first hears about it. A single person killed hundreds of thousands of Orks in a single fight? Oh yeah, he'd love it. And then he'd find out it was a magic thing and then the salt and rage comes in.
Tzeentch, on the other hand, would be all over that shit.
 
Tzeentch, on the other hand, would be all over that shit.
Let's hope he isn't.

Assuming they can get past Gazul, a shadow mage could wipe out most of the Dwarfs in 8 Peaks with what we have here. We should never forget that using Burning Shadows like this still represents a massive potential risk if it's not mitigated.

(In our case, I think circumstances are enough for it to be secure- both from the presence of Gazul, and the fact that the only way into it is through our fairly well-guarded home)
 
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Let's hope he isn't.

Assuming they can get past Gazul, a shadow mage could wipe out most of the Dwarfs in 8 Peaks with what we have here. We should never forget that using Burning Shadows like this still represent a massive potential risk if it's not mitigated.

(In our case, I think circumstances are enough for it to be secure- both from the presence of Gazul, and the fact that the only way into it is through our fairly well-guarded home)
Could the tower be used in a lesser mode without invoking Gazul though?
 
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