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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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LightLan said:
That depends on knowing about the target, we know preciously little about the Dragon.
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We do have those books about dragons that we bought recently. It's possible that will let Mathilde tailor her argument to her audience, just based on what she knows about ice dragons. Possibly not, though, which is why I did not use it as an argument in favor.
13th Fleet said:
Nah, I'd say it's more that Learning applies when actually communicating at all is a major problem.
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By Word of QM, we used Learning to formulate our pitch to the council when convincing them to uplift the We:
BoneyM said:
Being able to prepare what she'll say ahead of time pretty much lets her use Learning instead of Diplomacy.
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picklepikkl said:
Night Prowler was really, really good in Sylvania, but for one-off thieving in the mountains here, it's overkill.
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But the thing is, I think with Night Prowler we could have done a lot more. It wouldn't have been just one-offs.

The Night Prowler allows a fantastic amount of automatic penetration into a settlement or city. So we could use it to get very familiarized with the terrain and patrols and territory and everything of a place. And then, we could pull off greater heists.

It, in a sense, would no longer be just one-offs. It would be a far bigger heist. We would also have a better idea of how the chosen action of "steal stuff from Skaven" + "Night Prowler Face" works.

Also, I disagree that Night Prowler was good for Sylvania and not so good here; I mean, look at what we're dealing with here. We're dealing with multiple settlements and town-equivalents, that we expected to stick around for years. The Sylvania thing? That was just a one-off job. We hit a lot of places at once, but it was a 1-turn thing.

Because, how often do we get a chance to practice thievery? That is: how often do we have a good, and obvious, city to infiltrate? As long as we were based in Karak Eight Peaks, we had all these enemy settlements open for us to target. We knew where a bunch of enemy cities were.

Without that, who/what would we steal from? Nobody in the Empire we'd want to do that to. Unless we try to go into Sylvania again, or into the Under-Cities of the Empire. But that's kind of far away, and does not have the convenience of being 'This is our current job, and our closeby concerns, too.'

Now I'm sad that we're not ever going to have a good target for it to use.

Especially because you have to set the Coin first. If you stumble upon an enemy camp of city in the course of scouting? You can't immediately use the Night Prowler; you have to return to base and do it next turn. And so long as we were in K8P, we already had these enemy camps/settlements/cities/homes right there available for selection and targeting.
 
picklepikkl said:
We do have those books about dragons that we bought recently. It's possible that will let Mathilde tailor her argument to her audience, just based on what she knows about ice dragons. Possibly not, though, which is why I did not use it as an argument in favor.
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I doubt it, as we aren't able to access those books between making the decision to talk and talking.
 
Garlak said:
Also, I disagree that Night Prowler was good for Sylvania and not so good here; I mean, look at what we're dealing with here. We're dealing with multiple settlements and town-equivalents, that we expected to stick around for years. The Sylvania thing? That was just a one-off job. We hit a lot of places at once, but it was a 1-turn thing.

Because, how often do we get a chance to practice thievery? That is: how often do we have a good, and obvious, city to infiltrate? As long as we were based in Karak Eight Peaks, we had all these enemy settlements open for us to target. We knew where a bunch of enemy cities were.

Without that, who/what would we steal from? Nobody in the Empire we'd want to do that to. Unless we try to go into Sylvania again, or into the Under-Cities of the Empire. But that's kind of far away, and does not have the convenience of being 'This is our current job, and our closeby concerns, too.'

Now I'm sad that we're not ever going to have a good target for it to use.

Especially because you have to set the Coin first. If you stumble upon an enemy camp of city in the course of scouting? You can't immediately use the Night Prowler; you have to return to base and do it next turn. And so long as we were in K8P, we already had these enemy camps/settlements/cities/homes right there available for selection and targeting.
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Sure, but this past turn, we weren't actually gunning for major loot. We only wanted Queekish writing to funnel to Qrech. You may recall that originally the only looting action was the one with the Duckling; Johann's action was flipped late in the game because people were nervous about the possibility of botching the roll and not having anything to give to Qrech.

Like, sure, the way things worked out, Night Prowler might have been really nice. But we really, really, really want good Snake Juice results.
Abhorsen said:
I doubt it, as we aren't able to access those books between making the decision to talk and talking.
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We had access to them between "learning what kind of dragon was in K8P" and now, though. I think it's totally reasonable to assume that Mathilde looked up ice dragons at some point in the months between the council meeting and now.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Not without the ability to emulate musk. Skaven are a scent based species, so our illusions would be useless against them, and thus the NightProwler wouldn't activate.
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IIRC BoneyM pointed out that we could just have gotten some off of the Skaven. That some of the posts theorizing stuff like 'Could we use surgery to get it?' or 'Learn Illusion, I guess?' were overlooking the simple solutions of... making yourself smell like a Skaven. (Also, the surgery one had, uh... other problems with it. Like being permanent.)

Just rub Skaven stuff over yourself, basically.
 
Garlak said:
But the thing is, I think with Night Prowler we could have done a lot more. It wouldn't have been just one-offs.

The Night Prowler allows a fantastic amount of automatic penetration into a settlement or city. So we could use it to get very familiarized with the terrain and patrols and territory and everything of a place. And then, we could pull off greater heists.

It, in a sense, would no longer be just one-offs. It would be a far bigger heist. We would also have a better idea of how the chosen action of "steal stuff from Skaven" + "Night Prowler Face" works.

Also, I disagree that Night Prowler was good for Sylvania and not so good here; I mean, look at what we're dealing with here. We're dealing with multiple settlements and town-equivalents, that we expected to stick around for years. The Sylvania thing? That was just a one-off job. We hit a lot of places at once, but it was a 1-turn thing.

Because, how often do we get a chance to practice thievery? That is: how often do we have a good, and obvious, city to infiltrate? As long as we were based in Karak Eight Peaks, we had all these enemy settlements open for us to target. We knew where a bunch of enemy cities were.

Without that, who/what would we steal from? Nobody in the Empire we'd want to do that to. Unless we try to go into Sylvania again, or into the Under-Cities of the Empire. But that's kind of far away, and does not have the convenience of being 'This is our current job, and our closeby concerns, too.'

Now I'm sad that we're not ever going to have a good target for it to use.

Especially because you have to set the Coin first. If you stumble upon an enemy camp of city in the course of scouting? You can't immediately use the Night Prowler; you have to return to base and do it next turn. And so long as we were in K8P, we already had these enemy camps/settlements/cities/homes right there available for selection and targeting.
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We are Loremaster. We have access to a Gyrocopter transport service to take us where we will.
We can commute to the Empire and go spelunking in Under-Altdorf or Under-Nuln at will if we so choose, just allocate the action.

There are no shortage of opportunities for Night Prowler if it's considered of importance.
 
Alectai said:
I will point something out however.

When you're approaching someone and have had time to formulate your pitch, you use Learning.

Diplomacy mostly applies when you're thinking on your feet.
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nice try, but we don't have days or even hours this time, its pure opportunity, at most, we are getting the dragon books.

this is a Dip roll no matter how it is looked at.

I would actually almost get mad in a way if Boney used Learning. we know(?) the risks here and we are still taking it.
 
picklepikkl said:
OOC we know that's unlikely, because it used to live in Naggaroth, not anywhere around dwarves.

IC, it's pretty straightforward to go "deals we strike are contingent on the dragon not being Grudged and unwilling to make amends."
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"Way back when, when I was a wyrmling, I remember that Dwarves and Elves were good friends. It won't be a problem that I ate tens of thousands of elves, don't you think?"
 
uju32 said:
We are Loremaster. We have access to a Gyrocopter transport service to take us where we will.
We can commute to the Empire and go spelunking in Under-Altdorf or Under-Nuln at will if we so choose, just allocate the action.

There are no shortage of opportunities for Night Prowler if it's considered of importance.
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No, look -- it's... there's a problem with that. Hrm. How to verbalize it? Namely, that those things are not in Karak Eight Peaks.

We would have to decide that we wanted to do a big stealth-spree or thieving-spree, out of nowhere, and target it at places in the Empire (under it, anyway). It would be the equivalent of us going out of our way to do stuff with a tertiary focus of our real job.

Just. It's different when you don't have those places right next door to you, you know?

Like -- having them here meant that our minds were always focused on it, or aware of it. It was always front and center to us. Which meant that if anybody wanted to start a Map Karak Eight Peaks project, or a heavy "steal from everybody" project, it would be... all-together and focused and stuff. And it would be an obvious place to use the Night Prowler.

Places under the Empire though? It would require somebody deciding that "Hey, we want to go do this thing in another place" and then successfully arguing to spend a Facet on it. (And I'm not confident that the confluence of factors and pre-existing ties, that is Stirland and Sylvania, will happen for another place in the Empire. We had history in Sylvania and characters and such. And an immediate relevant thing.)

Also, it will compete against the idea of 'Well, that is a secondary or tertiary thing we're doing... Meanwhile, let's spend the Gambler on our Primary goals or job or Snakejuice research.'


Now, granted. It might still happen again. If we specifically decide to focus on Under-Nuln and Under-Altdorf. Or perhaps Karak Drazh, maybe.

Or if, when we start looking through the Eshin data on the Civil War, find something actionable and important.

But it's a bit more tenuous compared to a bunch of people deciding "Hey let's go on a sneaking spree/stealing spree in Karak Eight Peaks!"

The "default-ness" of actions and perspectives and modes of thought matter a lot.
 
Ericwinter said:
Wait, when did we learn that?
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In this post:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

As a Journeywoman, Grey Wizard Mathilde Weber is dropped into the deep end of intrigue and double-dealing after a surprise assignment to the necromancer-afflicted province of Stirland. Follow her trials, travails, feats and discoveries as she makes her way in the world and does her best to...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com
 
picklepikkl said:
In this post:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

As a Journeywoman, Grey Wizard Mathilde Weber is dropped into the deep end of intrigue and double-dealing after a surprise assignment to the necromancer-afflicted province of Stirland. Follow her trials, travails, feats and discoveries as she makes her way in the world and does her best to...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com
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Right, thanks. I wasn't paying too much attention yesterday.
 
For another example, another problem with Facets like Night Prowler is that they depend a lot on knowing a lot about the shape of the strategic field.

i.e. What if it turns out that during the 'Internship' to Nagarythe, the Shadow Warriors have us sneaking around a lot in Druchii Cities?

Then, Night Prowler would have been super applicable.

But we don't know that when we first choose the action. We have to guess at what's going to happen first, and while we can try to figure it out and reason it out, we're... probably more likely to go with what we feel is a trustworthy or 'default' choice. Which would be 'Place Gambler on it, better rolls is always good right?' Or Protector, as some speculate and hope might work out.

But, again, if we show up to the Internship and it turns out they're going to be taking us to Naggaroth? We'd regret not having known that in the first place.

... It would be really nice if we could choose the Coin Face when we get more information about what's going to be happening in future months, but after we already made the turn plan. But that'd probably be a bit less smooth for Normal Average Operating Turns.

... Maybe making it the case for when we're about to, knowingly, start a mini-turn or special action? Like the Nagarythe Work-cation? After we have some idea of what it's going to entail?
 
I also love that when we did roll a 1, we made sure it was on a roll where the number wasn't bad or good. That's what we want to see, getting rid of bad rolls while keeping the good rolls.

Yes, this usually makes no sense using probability, but I bet it works with Ranald. Actually, that would be a really cool mechanic for Ranald: less random dice. Basically, the the more Ranald was worshiped, the more the dice were loaded, they became streaky, or became 'due'. I'll have to remember this if I ever GM.
 
Actually, thinking about it, I wonder if the dragon having been in Naggaroth might mesh well with the elven internship? We'd probably have to get a good roll, but I could totally see it happening.
 
Abhorsen said:
Yes, this usually makes no sense using probability, but I bet it works with Ranald. Actually, that would be a really cool mechanic for Ranald: less random dice. Basically, the the more Ranald was worshiped, the more the dice were loaded, they became streaky, or became 'due'. I'll have to remember this if I ever GM.
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So Randald converts your gambles to work on pseudo-random distribution?
 
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