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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Large-scale metaphysical engineering is well above the sort of thing I am interested exploring in this quest.

Insofar as I am interested in exploring themes of divine power struggles, it's basically entirely through the lens of "Mathilde's relationship with her patron" rather than trying to realign the chakras of an entire plane of existence.
 
chocolote12 said:
They tried that, in Nehekhara. Just a little bit of undeath, they promised, you won't even noticed. Then they slipped and got the 'oops, all bones' of undeath servings.

Settra was not well pleased.
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Undeath probably just has too many downsides to be workable. It was worth asking the question, though.

I like the idea of trying to build infrastructure that absorbs stray emotions and makes them into something useful, though. Like a monolith in every settlement or something.
 
picklepikkl said:
Large-scale metaphysical engineering is well above the sort of thing I am interested exploring in this quest.

Insofar as I am interested in exploring themes of divine power struggles, it's basically entirely through the lens of "Mathilde's relationship with her patron" rather than trying to realign the chakras of an entire plane of existence.
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Come now, it's a fascinating problem that would require interacting with all sorts of interesting people and leveraging difficult issues. Doesn't that intrigue you?
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Come now, it's a fascinating problem that would require interacting with all sorts of interesting people and leveraging difficult issues. Doesn't that intrigue you?
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It would be neat, but in reality chaos would catch on pretty quick, then they would flip the table press the "End Times" button and destroy the planet.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Come now, it's a fascinating problem that would require interacting with all sorts of interesting people and leveraging difficult issues. Doesn't that intrigue you?
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Not really. One of the things I like about this quest is that Ranald is a character; not a major character, but a real character who has taken actions and who has opinions about things. Making him more powerful by setting up menhirs along leylines or whatever is much less interesting to me than setting up temples in his name, studying his power, and trusting him when the chips are down.
 
adaer said:
Isn't a big part of the necrons that they have since reconsidered their position, and are very irritated with the "no takebacksies" clause they agreed to?
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No they want bodies that can actually feel physical sensation and shit.

they very clearly are "No fucking with the warp allowed" in stance.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
If Chaos could end things wouldn't they have done it already?
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They feud too much to cooperate long-term. As much as they dislike everyone else, their main rivals are each other, who are also the only beings in the same power-range.

Anybody that could actually threaten them would immediately earn their undivided attention.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Come now, it's a fascinating problem that would require interacting with all sorts of interesting people and leveraging difficult issues. Doesn't that intrigue you?
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Would empowering the gods opposed to chaos be helpful though? What you are suggesting is trying to divert energy that normally goes to chaos gods to the human gods. This sounds good but I see some really big problems with it.

The biggest one I see is the assumption that we could do something like this fast enough to give the human gods enough power to withstand an attack by the chaos gods. It seems like a big ask to me to pretend that the chaos gods wouldn't notice what is being done. We know from our encounter with Mork and Ranald that gods can not only take power from each other and, if thread's thoughts on what a six would have done, interact directly with each other. Now the stealing part may have only been because of Ranald's nature but I think counting on chaos gods not to take what they want is a mistake.

Human gods are not strong enough to directly hold off chaos gods. Currently both sides act mostly through proxies. We don't want to create a situation that changes the status quo in this regard. We don't want the chaos gods acting directly instead of using the closest person lucid enough to give orders.
 
Neshuakadal said:
Would empowering the gods opposed to chaos be helpful though? What you are suggesting is trying to divert energy that normally goes to chaos gods to the human gods. This sounds good but I see some really big problems with it.

The biggest one I see is the assumption that we could do something like this fast enough to give the human gods enough power to withstand an attack by the chaos gods. It seems like a big ask to me to pretend that the chaos gods wouldn't notice what is being done. We know from our encounter with Mork and Ranald that gods can not only take power from each other and, if thread's thoughts on what a six would have done, interact directly with each other. Now the stealing part may have only been because of Ranald's nature but I think counting on chaos gods not to take what they want is a mistake.

Human gods are not strong enough to directly hold off chaos gods. Currently both sides act mostly through proxies. We don't want to create a situation that changes the status quo in this regard. We don't want the chaos gods acting directly instead of using the closest person lucid enough to give orders.
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You're right, but you're overlooking something. Unless the status quo changes, everyone in the world is doomed.

Sure, acting is a risk. But this problem needs to be solved somehow. Maybe the least risky way to solve it is some other method. I'm very open to suggestions. But the races do not have the luxury of doing nothing. To do nothing is certain, inevitable failure.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
If Chaos could end things wouldn't they have done it already?
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Chaos is self defeating, they are near incapable of working together by virtue of their existence and they don't really want to outright destroy the world per say anyway
Tzeentch in particular doesn't want to actually full out win almost any conflict since as the god of schemes, change, evolution and hope he abhors the idea of winning the great game and being stuck with the stasis of victory, he needs to define himself against some form of adversity to adapt against, usually the other Chaos Gods, actually outright winning and eliminating the opponent is antithetical to his nature
All the Chaos gods have this to some degree, Khorne needs endless conflict and war, Slaanesh needs people to experience the emotional extremes of suffering and joy, even Nurgle needs the people to wallow in stagnation and corruption

Chaos needs the world to sustain itself, if they eat everything then there's nothing left and they die off
So their current goal is to just make it so that the world is one of unending strife, war and suffering to both sustain themselves and to give them a fun toy box to kick around for giggles, and well, by those parameters they've kinda already won; life in the world of Warhammer already is one of constant struggle, horror, violence and suffering

Chaos is also being physically shut out of the world due to measures from the Slann and High Elves, namely the way stone network and the great vortex which act to siphon excess magic out of the world to deny Daemons the ability to just manifest on the material plane, without that Chaos would have a far more active hand in all the events that are transpiring, so I suppose they haven't truly won after all
They all dream of the day they can break through to the mortal world and reshape it in their image eternally
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
You're right, but you're overlooking something. Unless the status quo changes, everyone in the world is doomed.

Sure, acting is a risk. But this problem needs to be solved somehow. Maybe the least risky way to solve it is some other method. I'm very open to suggestions. But the races do not have the luxury of doing nothing. To do nothing is certain, inevitable failure.
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The world isn't doomed though. That's end times stuff which isn't currently cannon for this quest. Even then the good guys had a solid shot of winning supposedly.

The best way to improve the world is through slow careful change. Order forces want to keep slowly building up the advantages they have. The forces of chaos get boosts to power only sometimes. But the empire specifically is constantly trying to build up strength. Eventually that slow but constant build up will over come the boosts that chaos only sometimes get.

Steady and continually improvement is the way to eventually over come chaos.
 
CrimsonOddball said:
Chaos is self defeating, they are near incapable of working together by virtue of their existence and they don't really want to outright destroy the world per say anyway
Tzeentch in particular doesn't want to actually full out win almost any conflict since as the god of schemes, change, evolution and hope he abhors the idea of winning the great game and being stuck with the stasis of victory, he needs to define himself against some form of adversity to adapt against, usually the other Chaos Gods, actually outright winning and eliminating the opponent is antithetical to his nature
All the Chaos gods have this to some degree, Khorne needs endless conflict and war, Slaanesh needs people to experience the emotional extremes of suffering and joy, even Nurgle needs the people to wallow in stagnation and corruption

Chaos needs the world to sustain itself, if they eat everything then there's nothing left and they die off
So their current goal is to just make it so that the world is one of unending strife, war and suffering to both sustain themselves and to give them a fun toy box to kick around for giggles, and well, by those parameters they've kinda already won; life in the world of Warhammer already is one of constant struggle, horror, violence and suffering
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Okay, so why the chaos invasions and end times? Isn't that like a farmer burning his own fields?
 
On the one hand the risks are tremendous in possibilities. On the other hand, this may be the best time we'll ever have to do it period.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Okay, so why the chaos invasions and end times? Isn't that like a farmer burning his own fields?
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The end times had a lot of stupid plot holes, in the aftermath the Chaos Gods even reached the obvious realization that there wasn't anything left for them, though everything got rebooted with Age of Sigmar afterward solving that issue... somehow, I don't really know or understand the details of how the universe got reborn

As for all the other Daemonic incursions see my edit to my first post below
CrimsonOddball said:
Chaos is also being physically shut out of the world due to measures from the Slann and High Elves, namely the way stone network and the great vortex which act to siphon excess magic out of the world to deny Daemons the ability to just manifest on the material plane, without that Chaos would have a far more active hand in all the events that are transpiring, so I suppose they haven't truly won after all
They all dream of the day they can break through to the mortal world and reshape it in their image eternally
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