Sadly, wolf has our magical signature, thus we would count as having done the necromancy.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
neutronium95
Mad Rocketeer
- Location
- The launch pad
You people are going about this all wrong. Don't try to find some technicality to get around the articles, just get rid of the articles themselves. It shouldn't be too difficult to arrange for Roswita to be removed by her political opponents. Then all of her successors will meet with unfortunate accidents, until they give the job to the woman who smashed Drakenhof. Then when the Empress gets bored of palace life, she can disappear, the Emperor suffers a tragic accident, and either Mathilde gets elected or finagles her way into becoming regent.
From there it's a simple matter to instate a new, more permissive set of articles, and then Mathilde can work on magic as much as she wants without any legal concerns.
From there it's a simple matter to instate a new, more permissive set of articles, and then Mathilde can work on magic as much as she wants without any legal concerns.
- Pronouns
- It/They
Look we'll just tempt them with delicious fishy sticks and it will be all good.
Perhaps it would be more expedient to mentor little Mandred into pushing for more acceptance for mages.
Surely Ranald will approve of removing the shackles and overthrowing the unjust oppression of the Articles in his Protector persona.
Mathilde could pick up the Supreme Matriarch role - maybe push it through so the Colleges can get an Elector vote.
neutronium95
Mad Rocketeer
- Location
- The launch pad
The most expedient option would be to convince the Empress that the articles are strangling the potential of the colleges. They were written in a darker, more superstitious time, and the wizards have proven themselves. A tiny little loosening of the regulations couldn't possibly cause any harm. If we get her inside, and she convinces her husband, we could be experimenting in a few years, instead of waiting for the Emperor to kick the bucket.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Read as 'elf titties.'
Changed the whole subsequent mental image of The Protector, I can tell you that.
Once, Before, in the Long, Long Ago before BoneyM left us. The elders, they tell of a time of plenty. When updates fell as rain.
But in these sad, grim times, there is only an eternity of darkness, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
It has been over 24 hours! We can only assume he is dead, and the updates have departed never to be seen again. Beyond that pale horizon, perhaps there is some better world than this. There must be, if we can only believe.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
There's no point trying to appease Makoto, she'll argue about whatever choice you make.
I don't think there's actually anything wrong with the articles themselves. They serve an important purpose that hasn't in the last three centuries become any less important, and loosening the regulations for everybody due to a single non-replicable outlier isn't good administration.
The informal by-laws that describe the actual internal operation of the colleges could do with some circumstantial exceptions (like adding a process to apply to study previously sealed off topics if new information or safety measures come to light), but in general they're mostly still very relevant as well.
They really have. I get kind of wrong-footed when I refresh the page and don't see new posts these days. It's kind of weird.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Plus you kind of get the feeling that if she really felt the need, she could spend six months buckling down and rebuilding necromancy in an ulgu-derived variant and then use that to cast Mass Confusion on the universe and bluff the world into thinking Abel (plus or minus an army of not-skeletons) is alive again.
She proved she can do it with the Matrix.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Necrowomancy, Now!
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Nekowomancy, Now!
We are honestly getting the the point were I think someone making a 'develop a new evil magic style' quest could be outright interesting.
Curse you people.
Curse you people.
- Pronouns
- It/They
That is the goal yes.
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
i on the other tentacle want a Good Necromancer quest
the sheer WTF of that should be interesting, also should be a pain since the good guy hate you for using Dark magic and the bad guy will also hate you because you are fucking them over because they are evil
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Actually, I'm curious. Do the articles explicitly state working with Dhar as illegal, or just necromancy and warpstone experimentation? Because the proposed Umbramancy wouldn't technically be considered illegal in the latter case. Oh, practically we'll still probably be declared a witch if we brought it out in public, but if they never knew the skill existed...
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
"7. No Magister may ever study the Forbidden Lores of the Daemonic Powers, nor the unholy ways of Necromancy, nor any other sorcery or witchcraft that utilises the wicked powers of Dark Magic. Any Magister found disregarding this Article is guilty of an Abominable Act and is both Heretic and Traitor and will be put to sword and fire immediately."
Fairly explicitly verboten.
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
Yep, quite illegal.
Edit: Damn the ninjas! Full posting ahead!
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I think the issue with that, in Warhammer at least, is that you can't really do good necromancy; it's like being a Radioactive Waste bender. In almost all situations, it would be better for everybody if you just let the bad thing happen rather than trying to reach in and fix anything using necromancy. Also, just like a fire bender you're not actually immune to your radioactive waste, so you pretty quickly turn into the thing you were trying to fight.
Yeah, sorry.
'Nor any other sorcery or witchcraft that utilizes the wicked powers of Dark Magic', to be specific, dark magic in this case being, well, Dhar-k magic.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The articles blanket prohibit Dark Magic, which is the legal term for using Dhar.
I mean Zeon are a bunch of geonicdal lunatics and Char does waaaaay to much to help their twisted cause so I'm entirly on board with never working with the guy.
Oh and working with Dhar at all is flat out illegal too.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Ah. Well, that sucks.
And the rest of it:
Or, from the sound of it, being flushed down by accident.
The moat is interesting as a defense, the very presence of a moat of running water means that burrowing under it becomes risk of everyone in the burrowing group drowning.
Theres warpstone, but this is DEFINITELY not an impact crater of any sort. How'd the Gromril get here...I sort of wonder if the Old Ones might have used the Eight Peaks Waystone network to forge Gromril from lava or something.
Oh well we'd never know.
Also the missing Skaven graffiti makes me wonder.
They wouldn't have left THIS place alone without more reason than that more than ten generations ago dwarves were super top vengeance here.
An earthbound ghost enforcing that?
-What we saw in our Caldera looting spree was that they were stretched thin and it was practically empty. This IS actually true, it currently contains only about 10% of their total manpower and every heavy weapons platform that wasn't in Karagril.
-What we saw in Karagril was that they committed every heavy weapons platform they could to the place, and about 10% of their total manpower.
-What we saw in Yar was that they committed 80% of their total manpower in clanrats and...yet it was equal in quantity to Eshin's elitist(and thus smaller than usual) forces.
-We saw no slaverats ever since they took Moulder.
My guess at the problem was that while they have plenty of food from the orcs, their ammunition and equipment stockpile was running low from just how much they're shooting into orcs, as were their body of moderately skilled units needed to crew ratling guns and Jezzails.
Thats why they mass promoted all the slaves, they needed to grind up their skills to a replacement rate, the food is great for producing more clanrats, but clanrats won't make the Red Fang salient work out, and clanrats aren't useful against Skryre's wide area indiscriminate attacks.
Like, being able to raise Skaven to maturity only matters for clanrats.
You might be able to stuff a new clanrat into a ratling gun position that lost the last one to an arrow to the head, but they'd waste more bullets, have less coherent lanes of fire to maximize the killzone, and if the gun jams they're going to take longer to restore it.
You stuff a clanrat into a Jezzail team and they're utterly useless. Even if they learned twice as fast as humans you're still looking at a 2-3 year training course to take a grunt to a sniper, assuming they actually had the talent.
So why are these a problem? Surely they're taking attrition on the expendable clanrats disproportionately against orcs in tunnels who are not known for using shields and have shitty archery?
Why would they be desperate when Eshin and Skryre are in a holding pattern?
Anyone realized we've been culling the specialist units of Clan Mors for three years without stopping? We've been preferentially attacking outposts to steal their guns, and that means killing primary AND secondary gun crews each time, because we usually kill the whole outpost, but since we leave the place unclaimed they HAVE to re-garrison it with a new outpost and another crew.
THAT is why they're desperate. Being able to replace your manpower doesn't mean shit if you can't replace the skills. And the cat-like wizards have been preferentially attacking their specialist units.
...usually this sort of thing happens to Dwarfholds instead though. March off to war, come home to find your hold had been wiped out.
After THAT they probably know to completely shred the trolls before letting their guard down.
Or were the trolls mostly surviving by eating trolls(since they regenerate by magic, they don't care about conservation of mass)?
Usually its the dwarves on the side with lots of siege dakka.
When you gamble of COURSE you rig the odds first.
Also I'd note that Desperate, Prepared, Communications Cut, Completely Isolated modifiers usually apply on dwarf war rolls too...
And they can't switch in combat because their darkvision is toast for tens of minutes after the lights go out.
Also hah, I see we got them to reposition their defences to face our force, so they have no defenses, no lights facing Kazador's way.
Not like theres a GOOD way to fight a lightning cannon admittedly.
Also I wonder if dwarves might like to adopt the tactic. Carrying their own portable fortifications with them seems like the sort of idea that might appeal to a dedicated dwarf crossbow unit. They already do shieldwalls after all, this is just the step beyond, with heavier walls.
Once more the reversal, the Skaven can't see what they're shooting at due to the sudden darkness, but the dwarves have all the Skaven lit up as targets.
The Besiegers are worth every coin.
Breaking and routing is terrible because whoever DOESN'T break is exposed to attacks while unsupported. But if your whole force routs simultaneously...well, its a bit harder to take advantage, especially if you retreat into tunnels where a harrying attacker is vulnerable to a counterstrike.
Both sides routing at the same time is pretty dang novel.
Just how much Waagh and Hysh were being used?
Or is Mathilde's Windsage senses getting keener?
Huh, wonder if theres any risk of river troll swimming downstream to the Citadel.
Or, from the sound of it, being flushed down by accident.
Last words being read is going to help bring closure...and drive Angrund into a fury for the coming assault.
The moat is interesting as a defense, the very presence of a moat of running water means that burrowing under it becomes risk of everyone in the burrowing group drowning.
Hmm...this doesn't look like a meteoric caldera.
Theres warpstone, but this is DEFINITELY not an impact crater of any sort. How'd the Gromril get here...I sort of wonder if the Old Ones might have used the Eight Peaks Waystone network to forge Gromril from lava or something.
Oh well we'd never know.
Wonder where the records went. Sealed away?
Also the missing Skaven graffiti makes me wonder.
They wouldn't have left THIS place alone without more reason than that more than ten generations ago dwarves were super top vengeance here.
An earthbound ghost enforcing that?
So the bigger picture emerges. Clan Mors' situation was more complex than we initially saw:
-What we saw in our Caldera looting spree was that they were stretched thin and it was practically empty. This IS actually true, it currently contains only about 10% of their total manpower and every heavy weapons platform that wasn't in Karagril.
-What we saw in Karagril was that they committed every heavy weapons platform they could to the place, and about 10% of their total manpower.
-What we saw in Yar was that they committed 80% of their total manpower in clanrats and...yet it was equal in quantity to Eshin's elitist(and thus smaller than usual) forces.
-We saw no slaverats ever since they took Moulder.
My guess at the problem was that while they have plenty of food from the orcs, their ammunition and equipment stockpile was running low from just how much they're shooting into orcs, as were their body of moderately skilled units needed to crew ratling guns and Jezzails.
Thats why they mass promoted all the slaves, they needed to grind up their skills to a replacement rate, the food is great for producing more clanrats, but clanrats won't make the Red Fang salient work out, and clanrats aren't useful against Skryre's wide area indiscriminate attacks.
Like, being able to raise Skaven to maturity only matters for clanrats.
You might be able to stuff a new clanrat into a ratling gun position that lost the last one to an arrow to the head, but they'd waste more bullets, have less coherent lanes of fire to maximize the killzone, and if the gun jams they're going to take longer to restore it.
You stuff a clanrat into a Jezzail team and they're utterly useless. Even if they learned twice as fast as humans you're still looking at a 2-3 year training course to take a grunt to a sniper, assuming they actually had the talent.
So why are these a problem? Surely they're taking attrition on the expendable clanrats disproportionately against orcs in tunnels who are not known for using shields and have shitty archery?
Why would they be desperate when Eshin and Skryre are in a holding pattern?
Anyone realized we've been culling the specialist units of Clan Mors for three years without stopping? We've been preferentially attacking outposts to steal their guns, and that means killing primary AND secondary gun crews each time, because we usually kill the whole outpost, but since we leave the place unclaimed they HAVE to re-garrison it with a new outpost and another crew.
THAT is why they're desperate. Being able to replace your manpower doesn't mean shit if you can't replace the skills. And the cat-like wizards have been preferentially attacking their specialist units.
Boy, is Mors going to be so surprised when they come home after glorious-terrible victory.
...usually this sort of thing happens to Dwarfholds instead though. March off to war, come home to find your hold had been wiped out.
Also being horrifically outnumbered while in their fortifications is usually the dwarf thing too.
Hmm, I guess as far as the first Undumgi fight against trolls go thats pretty good. The mild casualties, I suspect is that the first one they fought they just stabbed through the head and heart and then assumed it was dead. Then got a little mauled when it got right back up.
After THAT they probably know to completely shred the trolls before letting their guard down.
Hmm, speaking of food, had we seen ANY food in Kvinn-Wyr?
Or were the trolls mostly surviving by eating trolls(since they regenerate by magic, they don't care about conservation of mass)?
That is a lot of dakka.
Usually its the dwarves on the side with lots of siege dakka.
Witness the power of Stacking The Deck.
When you gamble of COURSE you rig the odds first.
Also I'd note that Desperate, Prepared, Communications Cut, Completely Isolated modifiers usually apply on dwarf war rolls too...
And the lights tell me they were expecting an attack by Eshin. If they were expecting dwarves they'd have left the lights off because Skaven need less light than dwarves.
And they can't switch in combat because their darkvision is toast for tens of minutes after the lights go out.
Also hah, I see we got them to reposition their defences to face our force, so they have no defenses, no lights facing Kazador's way.
The Jezzail aim certainly seems to have degraded a bunch from their reputation. Though maybe they were used to using rounds which were armor piercing against sane thicknesses of metal.
Goddamit. Attacking emplaced siege sucks.
Not like theres a GOOD way to fight a lightning cannon admittedly.
Taken from the Jezzail engineering textbook we looted from Skryre?
Thats a nice professional force. The warp lightning could have shattered the line, but it misfired? I'm not sure how much warp lightning cannons adhere to physics, since if I'm not mistaken steel shields anchored to stone by steel rods SHOULD ground normal lightning strikes entirely.
Also I wonder if dwarves might like to adopt the tactic. Carrying their own portable fortifications with them seems like the sort of idea that might appeal to a dedicated dwarf crossbow unit. They already do shieldwalls after all, this is just the step beyond, with heavier walls.
And now the dwarves are in darkness and the Skaven are lit.
Once more the reversal, the Skaven can't see what they're shooting at due to the sudden darkness, but the dwarves have all the Skaven lit up as targets.
The Besiegers are worth every coin.
The panic spreads. They're shooting wildly now if they don't even have the height right.
Mathilde: "Even when they cast with items instead of sorcerors they still miscast. Shoddy Dhar using fools."
In that moment they all shit a brick facing a thousand runewarriors at maximum morale who had just read the last words of their ancestors dying to Skaven an hour ago.
HERE'S KAZADOR!
Utter Dismay?
The shock effect must be immense. The entire rank evaporating at once gives the second rank a VERY good reason to flee.
AND coordinated with the charge. Kazador's Throng had a lot of practice at this huh?
Mercenaries: "Best gig ever. They pay lots, they pay on time and they put you at the back because they want all the kills."
It occurs to me that Fear Musk might well be a feature not a bug.
Breaking and routing is terrible because whoever DOESN'T break is exposed to attacks while unsupported. But if your whole force routs simultaneously...well, its a bit harder to take advantage, especially if you retreat into tunnels where a harrying attacker is vulnerable to a counterstrike.
That looks like a bitch to attack. What wouldn't I give for some spider cavalry for this, just to be sure that they can't take out the walkway.
#YaketySax
Both sides routing at the same time is pretty dang novel.
...hell, they engaged the berserker mode. Theres already fifty thousand dead Skaven on both sides and they must win or starve.
So we're looking at maybe 2000-3000 Skaven left. And most of their Stormvermin were probably drawn out by the gambit earlier, so its mostly clanrats, traps and engines.
Hmm, weren't those a mile away from here and through stone?
Just how much Waagh and Hysh were being used?
Or is Mathilde's Windsage senses getting keener?
DevilsAdvocate
Always follow the golden rule.
I was under the impression that they are great examples if overcrowded or "utopian" rats.
Though normal ones are very different.
- Pronouns
- It/They
Alright so we just make sure no one ever finds out.
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
Mathilde is technically already in violation of that article because she decided to read the Liber Mortis. Now, she has a decent chance of talking her way out of an execution if discovered, but it's far from a sure thing.
Actively experimenting with Dark Magic, even with "tongs" would make talking her way out of it much less likely.
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