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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Portec said:
@Threat
I have now found the time to read through the sidestories as well (I beliefe they are canon while the apocrypha are not) and still have not found how Dame Weber obtained the titels of The Dämmerlichtreiter and Sängerkritisch. They kind of appeared after taking down the trader leage and for the second I am uncomfortable to put it time-wise there at all. Can someone point me to their origin or explain please?
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Here's the specific chapters where each one was first introduced:
BoneyM said:
"The Dämmerlichtreiter," the man breathes.

You blink in surprise at him. "The what now?" You had been prepared for all sorts of reactions, but not calling you that.

He stares, wild-eyed, pointing accusingly. "You! The Rider of Dusk! The woman who rides the coming of night across Stirland, bringing ruin to the enemies of the Hunter-Count!"

You stare back, and a delighted smile spreads across your face. "I mean... gosh. I hadn't realized people had been noticing. The Rider of Dusk? That's... wow." You bask for a moment, but duty calls. "Anyway. Not why I'm here."
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BoneyM said:
Weeks more pass in busy work, as the Purge is expanded to cover the Woods since you're there already and the greenskins have been all but exterminated. When the Throng of Zhufbar arrives, having decided to follow up their hard-won victory over the greenskins by destroying their fort, they find it already far advanced in deconstruction, with a single tent standing in the middle of it all, and within it Van Hal is carefully scrubbing the last vestiges of flesh from the skull of what had once been a Strigoi vampire. His gift to you, he had said, and you suppose you could always use a terrifying paperweight for the laboratory.

Sitting beside Van Hal as the dwarves enter is you, staring in troubled thought at the candle that flickers away almost to nothing whenever you draw near to it.

[Arcane Mark gained: Flicker]
[Title gained: Sängerkritisch]
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Okay, so at this point, it's very clear that "Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition), 10 Pull Gacha Edition" is going to win. There are things that make me uneasy about this plan, and I wanted to talk a bit about them. Either as possible failure states in which we fuck up achieving our goals, or cases where the expenditures aren't worth the prize.

First up, the main Rat himself, Qrech. The agonizing part of this is comparing it to the original version of this plan, where there was an additional Qrech action revolving around extending our rapport and establishing the lie that Mathilde is self-interested enough to reward compliance with helping the Skaven. That was an incredibly strong combo in my eyes, as we need to sidestep his loyalty to his race, we need to not make it as big of a betrayal as it actually is. Engineer a Deceiver boosted scenario where it doesn't hurt the Skaven race at all to teach her written and spoken Queekish. And making a promise to help the Skaven race is a FUCKING BROKEN INTERROGATION STRATEGY when he literally cannot disbelieve you. That's what that plan did, and skimping on the setup in order to grab written Queekish translations makes me nervous about it. The current Kill With Kindness strategy is a status quo I want to maintain and the moment he erupts in angry refusal and gets punished is the moment it kinda disappears. It can be salvaged by strength of reward/punishment reinforcement, but that takes time and the possibility of sabotage and resistance. The Perfect Interrogation is an extended sequence of Mathilde the Deceiver getting everything she ever wanted out of a Qrech who has zero clue what he's actually doing. The things that Qrech gives to her willingly is going to be more reliable than the things that she pries out of his skull with her bare hands. If there is a single fear I have, it is that jumping right to translating written Queekish will hit a stumbling block in this endeavor.

Also, the 10 Favour expenditure to, as I understand it, get a roll on every remaining Grey spell. Oooooh boy, feelings about this. That is quite a lot of favor, that is Lord Magister assistance favor, I said the same exact shit about wasting Dwarf favor to get the books, and it is even more true when it concerns 10 Favour. The fact that were getting this when we are 2-3 AP away from finishing everything is also A Thing. I really get the rationale behind this, I know it's because of the AP Hell and the fear of Mathilde's incoming negatrait, but boy we are spending this shit as soon as it enters our bank. Blah.

Qrech might turn out alright, but that 10 favor is gone forever.
 
BungieONI said:
To a point. The single highest bonuses of our Martial benefits however are situational and are not added to the final stat, which is important to note because we are talking about Martial in particular.

The planning and command things garnered by experience and education:
Strategy: You know the basics of planning and executing a military campaign. +1 Martial
Strategy - Skaven: You know the strategies of the ratmen. +5 to command and planning rolls while fighting or leading Skaven armies.
Strategy - Undead: You know the strategies of the living dead. +5 to command and planning rolls while fighting or leading Undead armies.
Tactics - Skaven: You know the tactics of the ratmen. +5 to command and reading the battlefield while fighting or leading Skaven units.
Tactics - Undead: You know the tactics of the living dead. +5 to command and reading the battlefield while fighting or leading Undead units.

And the style:
Master Swordswoman: You have blended sword techniques from the Empire and the Karaz Ankor into a style entirely your own. +10 martial when fighting against enraged or unthinking opponents, or when holding a physical choke-point such as a doorway or tunnel.
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God, leading the purge of Under-Mousillon would be perfect. Just hope there's some Skaven there who've been zombified and those catacombs and tight tunnels will overflow with re-corpses. :V The power of STACKING NUMBERS will triumph!
 
ChronOblivion said:
Also, the 10 Favour expenditure to, as I understand it, get a roll on every remaining Grey spell. Oooooh boy, feelings about this. That is quite a lot of favor, that is Lord Magister assistance favor, I said the same exact shit about wasting Dwarf favor to get the books, and it is even more true when it concerns 10 Favour. The fact that were getting this when we are 2-3 AP away from finishing everything is also A Thing. I really get the rationale behind this, I know it's because of the AP Hell and the fear of Mathilde's incoming negatrait, but boy we are spending this shit as soon as it enters our bank. Blah.

Qrech might turn out alright, but that 10 favor is gone forever.
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It is.

We can also get it back in like, two papers and no AP spent over two turns. Mathilde's college reputation is in a position where she's skyrocketing and our Favor gain is kinda insane.
 
Portec said:
@Threat
I have now found the time to read through the sidestories as well (I beliefe they are canon while the apocrypha are not) and still have not found how Dame Weber obtained the titels of The Dämmerlichtreiter and Sängerkritisch. They kind of appeared after taking down the trader leage and for the second I am uncomfortable to put it time-wise there at all. Can someone point me to their origin or explain please?
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BoneyM said:
"The Dämmerlichtreiter," the man breathes.

You blink in surprise at him. "The what now?" You had been prepared for all sorts of reactions, but not calling you that.

He stares, wild-eyed, pointing accusingly. "You! The Rider of Dusk! The woman who rides the coming of night across Stirland, bringing ruin to the enemies of the Hunter-Count!"
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Dämmerlichtreiter: Shadowrider or Rider of Dusk, referring to Mathilde's distinctive use of Shadowsteed, it just sprouted suddenly from the Stirland commoners urban myth style; speaking of tales of a rider who heralded the ruin of those who opposed Stirland

BoneyM said:
With a chanted prayer that you faintly realize is a continuation of the one that began the battle, the Priest of Sigmar glows, literally glows, with what you cannot help but know is the manifestation of the truest faith in the Champion of Mankind. The gloom of the forest is driven back as a mirror to the sun in the sky bursts forth from the armoured priest, and the courage of every true servant of the Empire is bolstered as- you shake your head, trying to regain your concentration. Something about whatever it is Kasmir was doing (was it magic? was it divine? was there a difference?) seemed to twist your thoughts into grandiose purple prose, and you can't afford to be distracted. Because as the terrible creature advances, undeterred by the beacon of faith that Kasmir has become, you step between the two of them. Since the first pull of a trigger of this battle, you've been drawing the Ulgu that lies thick in the shadows of these woods into you, and shaping it into the most difficult and potent spell of Grey Magic you know. And as your silhouette falls upon the tide of the dead, you let the magic within you burst forth.

And in an instant, holy light and caustic Ulgu woven by the combined will of a priest and a wizard slam against the packed ranks of the creatures and they melt.

Literally.

The terrible cries of the Singing King are nothing compared to the hundreds of agonized screeches torn from the throats of those between you and the King, and the air is filled with their cries and the smell of boiling flesh and a horrible fog of vapourized skin. In instants the creatures have either literally or figuratively melted away and there's nothing between you and the Strigoi, and the worst cry yet fills the air, as the set of lungs that commanded a battlefield is given over to nothing but the expression of pure agony as the creature's skin boils away to reveal blackening muscle and yellowing bone, until they, too, begin to liquefy...

The legendary resilience of the grave might had been enough to counter even that, had Van Hal not chosen that moment to raise his repeater rifle and unload every single blessed bullet into the hideous creature.

For an instant, your shadow stretches across a portion of the battlefield filled only with the bubbling corpses of the rightfully dead, until Kasmir's beacon of light blinks out and shadow rush back in to fill the void.
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BoneyM said:
[Title gained: Sängerkritisch]
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Sängerkritisch, Music Critic, referring to Mathilde felling the Singing King, that one came from the soldiers and knights who witnessed the event
 
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BungieONI said:
Its sort of the reverse of the thing I was mentioning to picklepikkl about "We have new information on a character, which that character has had for some time and they haven't changed" but instead is "We have only incomplete information on a character, and do not know what they have in full detail." Making changes to an approach to a character because of the revelation of the stats that let them do everything we've seen them do in the past makes no sense. Making assumptions on their capability when we have incomplete information and indications of competence also makes no sense.
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This assumes that we hadn't been given reason to doubt Dreng before, and we have, with the elevator incident. OOC that nay be a crit fail, but IC it may not be. I don't think we've seen any particular evidence of competency on part of his decision making, rather than of the dwarves under his command as a whole.
 
Portec said:
@Threat
I have now found the time to read through the sidestories as well (I beliefe they are canon while the apocrypha are not) and still have not found how Dame Weber obtained the titels of The Dämmerlichtreiter and . They kind of appeared after taking down the trader leage and for the second I am uncomfortable to put it time-wise there at all. Can someone point me to their origin or explain please?
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The Dämmerlichtreiter refers to her habit of zipping around Stirland on her shadow mount so as to turn up at just the wrong time for plotting nobles. This spooked them and got her a nickname.

The Singing King was a strigoi vampire with a fortress in the Haunted Hills. When he came with all his strength to fight the army of Stirland, Mathilde and Kasmir combined their powers for a holy Burning Shadows and melted him like a zombie. Hence Sängerkritisch or music critic.

edit Weber'd
 
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Alratan said:
I don't think we've seen any particular evidence of competency on part of his decision making, rather than of the dwarves under his command as a whole.
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The troll-defenses seemed pretty well set-up to me.

Like, the worst thing we could say IC is that he's on the rash side, deciding to fix the mushrooms in the elevator immediately with the best way he knew how, instead of taking time to check everything.

Edit: At any rate, Belegar has had more than enough time to get his measure of Dreng. It's up to him, and he seems satisfied.
 
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ChronOblivion said:
First up, the main Rat himself, Qrech. The agonizing part of this is comparing it to the original version of this plan, where there was an additional Qrech action revolving around extending our rapport and establishing the lie that Mathilde is self-interested enough to reward compliance with helping the Skaven. That was an incredibly strong combo in my eyes, as we need to sidestep his loyalty to his race, we need to not make it as big of a betrayal as it actually is. Engineer a Deceiver boosted scenario where it doesn't hurt the Skaven race at all to teach her written and spoken Queekish. And making a promise to help the Skaven race is a FUCKING BROKEN INTERROGATION STRATEGY when he literally cannot disbelieve you. That's what that plan did, and skimping on the setup in order to grab written Queekish translations makes me nervous about it. The current Kill With Kindness strategy is a status quo I want to maintain and the moment he erupts in angry refusal and gets punished is the moment it kinda disappears. It can be salvaged by strength of reward/punishment reinforcement, but that takes time and the possibility of sabotage and resistance. The Perfect Interrogation is an extended sequence of Mathilde the Deceiver getting everything she ever wanted out of a Qrech who has zero clue what he's actually doing. The things that Qrech gives to her willingly is going to be more reliable than the things that she pries out of his skull with her bare hands. If there is a single fear I have, it is that jumping right to translating written Queekish will hit a stumbling block in this endeavor.
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So I want to point out that Boney actually structured the vote to give a bit of the flavor you're talking about. If you look at the action, it's not "teach me Queekish," it's "provide him a steady stream of Queekish to translate." We're doing the boil-a-frog technique of compromising an intelligence asset, where you get them to take one more step, then one more step, then one more step. First he told us about the Traitor-Clan and what the state of the Under-Empire was, which gave us intel we used to set off a bunch of raids on vulnerable spots. Now we're getting him Clan Mors material and giving him reasons why doing this doesn't actually hurt the true clans, and might even help them (I don't know if you saw the wrinkle I proposed which involves planting the idea that there is a schism in the Empire's intelligence services). This lets us build up a corpus of written Queekish and translation to work from. Then we can hopefully leverage that into "teach me how to do it myself, so I can undermine the Traitor Clan," probably after another Getting To Know You action (which will also let him stop being a locked action).
ChronOblivion said:
Also, the 10 Favour expenditure to, as I understand it, get a roll on every remaining Grey spell. Oooooh boy, feelings about this. That is quite a lot of favor, that is Lord Magister assistance favor, I said the same exact shit about wasting Dwarf favor to get the books, and it is even more true when it concerns 10 Favour. The fact that were getting this when we are 2-3 AP away from finishing everything is also A Thing. I really get the rationale behind this, I know it's because of the AP Hell and the fear of Mathilde's incoming negatrait, but boy we are spending this shit as soon as it enters our bank. Blah.
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Despite our AP hell, I wouldn't do it if this didn't cut our odds of getting a negatrait from ~13% to ~1%. Getting a flaw of "lacks confidence in infiltration" would suck. 10 Favour is a lot, but we'll earn it back.
 
noliar said:
According to Panoramia, K8P suffers from low water availability. That suggests low precipitation. As does the Caldera not being a lake. Combine that with peaks where one can live in a penthouse and still visit the rest of the hold on foot on a daily basis and the fact that the Worlds Edge mountains are the source of major rivers flowing west.

That all suggests to me that the K8P complex is lower than the peaks to the west of it and is in their rain shadow. Of course it's more complex than that - Karagil gets enough precipitation to sustain the silver tarn (unless that relies on ancient magic / engineering) for instance - the complex covers a very large area and different parts will have their own microclimates. The Caldera might get both more direct rain than the East Valley and more runoff from the Karags - unfortunately we aren't in a position to farm it.

Then there's groundwater. Even with relatively low annual precipitation, hundreds of thousands of years shaped like a big funnel could have filled a substantial aquifer - just because there's no caldera lake at the surface doesn't mean water hasn't been collecting. Indeed we know that the K8P of old used it, until the Skaven poisoned it.

When the hold was at its fullest, the Caldera, the East Valley, the slopes, Death Pass, and any usable land in the surrounding region would all have been under cultivation. Cities have hinterlands.
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Good point on the Caldera not having a lake- I don't know about an entire lake, but there's clearly no major water accumulation there even though it's the lowest region, so either the soil is porous enough to drain or rainfall is light enough that there's no opportunity for a lake to form. There aren't even any rivers on the maps we have available, and I'd expect in a mountainous region for the valleys to be absolutely riddled with streams if there's significant snowfall, at least seasonally due to snowmelt if nothing else. On the other hand, fantasy geography strikes again?

I don't know that Mathilde does visit the rest of the hold on foot on a daily basis. Even if the mountains are small the distance from the peak of Karag Nar to the populated interior of Karag Lhune must be a couple hours of walking. There's just no reason that she'd not take her shadowhorse when it ignores most rough terrain so she could go up and down terrifying slopes at 30mph to reduce her travel times to a matter of minutes. And if she's using the shadowhorse anyway then the possibility set for the lengths that she's traveling becomes much broader. We should consider Eight Peaks as a collection of towns near one another and governed as a group instead of as a true single city- the size of anything called a mountain is simply too large for it to be otherwise.

If you're discussing long-term groundwater accumulation being used as the primary source rather than having draining and annual replenishment, that kind of raises the question of whether the groundwater is still poisoned, three thousand years after the original deed. I wouldn't normally think so, but if it's not being cycled and just sitting there... what would ever clean it?

BlackWink said:
We have yet to see any hint of rain in 8 peaks so far as I remember.
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On-screen that's true, but in order for the Tarn to have formed as a reservoir and be usable as a sustained source of water for our agriculture there must be enough rainfall/snowfall to fill it with water and replace what we're drawing off. For that matter, heavy agriculture at all means that the climate here simply can't be upper-Andes-level arid. Why would the dwarfs ever move in to a desert in the first place?
 
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Alratan said:
This assumes that we hadn't been given reason to doubt Dreng before, and we have, with the elevator incident. OOC that nay be a crit fail, but IC it may not be.
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And all of his activities since outweigh that one mistake, because by all counts he's been very successful in everything else he did. He's as stable as Gunnars when you go back and look at the turn posts, excepting that one mistake.

Do we doubt Edda doing her job? With more evidence than Dreng for her lack of competence? I certainly haven't and that was reinforced by her amazing move last turn.

Like, trying to contort our vision of K8P's councilors until they seem incompetent makes actively negative sense to me since we have to rely on and trust them to do their jobs or we're never getting anything of ours done and several sectors will just fall flat on their face.
 
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DarkLight140 said:
On-screen that's true, but in order for the Tarn to have formed as a reservoir and be usable as a sustained source of water for our agriculture there must be enough rainfall/snowfall to fill it with water and replace what we're drawing off. For that matter, heavy agriculture at all means that the climate here simply can't be upper-Andes-level arid. Why would the dwarfs ever move in to a desert in the first place?
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It's also talked about that there may be an ancient dwarven artifice supplying the tarn or natural springs.
 
The description of Karak Eight Peaks in the 4th Ed army books described the place as 'protected by eight lofty snow-clad mountains', and that they 'encompassed a vast area'.
 
Neshuakadal said:
It's also talked about that there may be an ancient dwarven artifice supplying the tarn or natural springs.
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The Tarn can't be supplied by a natural spring. Springs are fed by groundwater, and not being exposed to potential poison in the groundwater is the whole reason that we're depending on the Tarn. So that's out.

Ancient dwarf magic I'd give you, though if the lost dwarf magical rune set includes "rune of conjuring clean water" that has a lot of infrastructural and agricultural applications and I'd expect Kragg to be spending half his time in the Tarn studying it.
 
Am I the only one that saw these
[ ] Join the Empire's attack on Under-Nuln.
[ ] Join the Empire's attack on Under-Ubersreik.
[ ] Join Bretonnia's attack on Under-Mousillon.
[ ] Join Bretonnia's attack on the Black Chasm.
And thought...we have four actions. Publish the Skaven tactics paper, swap to Protector, gather our posse and Roll Hard on all of these like the ghost of Christmas Future? Mathilde Skavensbane. Just sayin' also the clan eshin after battle report would be hilarious.
 
DarkLight140 said:
The Tarn can't be supplied by a natural spring. Springs are fed by groundwater, and not being exposed to potential poison in the groundwater is the whole reason that we're depending on the Tarn. So that's out.

Ancient dwarf magic I'd give you, though if the lost dwarf magical rune set includes "rune of conjuring clean water" that has a lot of infrastructural and agricultural applications and I'd expect Kragg to be spending half his time in the Tarn studying it.
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BoneyM said:
A close second is the SIlver Tarn, an enormous crater lake halfway up the mountain. You can't tell if its fed by rain or springs or ancient Dwarven artifice, but apart from a severe algae build-up the water appears clean and clear.
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All I was saying is that Mathilde thinks there are other possibilities to the tarn than just rain water.
 
So it seems like the strategy for taking K8P will be to take Kvinn-Wyr next, as Karag Mhonar will serve as the ablative defense, though I think we should figure out what Karag Mhonar is first to make sure it isn't something that might attack us.

Then, we can take the citadel depths, which would shorten our front at that point, though it would anger Clan Mors. Alternatively, we want a way to knock out Clan Eshin, perhaps by posing as an Eshin assassin and attacking Skyre.
 
10 Favors for the spell learning action is actually pretty reasonable when we break it down.

We currently have four spells we want to learn, ignoring Shadow of Death since it's redundant.

Learning them would take at least three actions - one for Invisibility, one for the two partials, and one dedicated action for Cloak Intent, since at that point taking the gacha would be a coinflip between a useful spell and a useless one.

Those three actions would cost two Favor on their own, so combining it all into one action basically costs us 4 Favor per action saved, with the added benefit of giving us the College's higher baseline bonus to learning the Partially Complete spells.

4 College Favor is basically the amount we get from Serenity each turn, so turning it into an AP is basically trading the Serenity writing action for an actual action - a trade I'd take any day.
 
I'm definitely in the 'trust our fellow advisors to do their jobs until given good reason not to' camp. They've all done well in either most or all of their tasks, and the one who has the largest known problems openly and voluntarily brought them up and was told 'don't worry about it, just keep doing an excellent job everywhere else'.
 
[X] Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition), 10 Pull Gacha Edition
[X] Plan Translation Extraction, 10 Pull Gacha Edition
Adhoc vote count started by picklepikkl on Nov 9, 2019 at 6:58 PM, finished with 636 posts and 85 votes.
  • [X] Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition), 10 Pull Gacha Edition
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
    -[X] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
    -[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.
    ... and 26 more.
    [X] Plan: Queekish Reading v2
    -[X] MAX: Bring him into the classified study on Warptech and have him assist Johann with the Ratling Gun.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X][EIC] Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X][Task] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
    -[X][Task] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X][Qrech] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    -[X][Gambit] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 favour to reschedule all classes so you get a roll for every spell
    -[X][Serenity] The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
    -[X][Penthouse] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Use it to sell our Qrech Gambit.
    [X] Plan Translation Extraction
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X] Attempt to learn a spell from scrolls (specify which, will be harder than studying it at the Grey College)
    --[X] Shroud of Invisibility
    -[X] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with the Skaven, and see about supplying sources of mental stimulation that your company isn't the only thing keeping him sane.
    --[X] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
    -[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambits
    [X] Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition)
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X] Attempt to learn a spell from scrolls (specify which, will be harder than studying it at the Grey College)
    --[X] Shroud of Invisibility
    -[X] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
    -[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.
    [X] Plan Translation Extraction, 10 Pull Gacha Edition
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
    -[X] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with the Skaven, and see about supplying sources of mental stimulation that your company isn't the only thing keeping him sane.
    --[X] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
    -[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambits
    [X] Plan Temple
    -[X] [MAX] Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[X] [JOHANN] Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] [DUCK] Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
    -[X][EIC] Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
    -[X] [TEMPLE] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
    -[X] [TOWER] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
    -[X][Qrech] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] [SERENITY] Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X][Penthouse] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] [COIN] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.
    [X] Plan: SuperSonicSound
    -[X] MAX: Bring him into the classified study on Warptech and have him assist Johann with the Ratling Gun. (NEW)
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence. (NEW)
    -[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
    -[X] Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.
    -[X] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
    -[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with the Skaven, and see about supplying sources of mental stimulation that your company isn't the only thing keeping him sane.
    -[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    -[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    -[X] Spend 10 favour to ensure we have teaching available for all our missing non-battle magic spells.
    -[X] The Deceiver: specify how this will be used.
    -[X] Use on Skaven Gambits.
    -[X] Write a paper: select which.
    - [X] Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic. (FADING)
    -[X] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry. (NEW)
    [X] Plan Steady Progress
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven electric whip, stolen from Clan Moulder.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X][EIC] Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
    -[X][Task] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X][Qrech] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X][Qrech] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
    -[X][Vitae] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
    -[X] [SERENITY] Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X][Penthouse] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[x] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
    -[X] The Deceiver: Qrech
    [X] Plan No Ranald, No Problems!
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his metalworking studies.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
    -[X] Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.
    -[X] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with the Skaven, and see about supplying sources of mental stimulation that your company isn't the only thing keeping him sane.
    -[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Wolf is fully grown and very magical. Deepen your familiar bond. (may unlock a new familiar ability; risks obsession)
    -[X] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.
    -[X] Serenity: Write a paper: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
    -[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
    [X] Plan Steady Progress (Tower Edition)
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven electric whip, stolen from Clan Moulder.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X][EIC] Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
    -[X][Task] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X][Task] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
    -[X][Qrech] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X][Qrech] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
    -[X][Vitae] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
    -[X] [SERENITY] Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X][Penthouse] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Qrech
    [X] Plan Translation Extraction (For the Snek Juice! Edition), 10 Pull Gacha Edition
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
    -[X] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
    -[X] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
    -[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.
    [X] Plan Redshirt v1
    [X] Investigate how the We communicates with... itself?
    [X] Join the Empire's attack on Under-Nuln.
    [X] Plan Translation Extraction, Many Prayers, Less Excess
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
    -[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
    -[X] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
    --[X] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
    -[X] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
    -[X] [TEMPLE] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
    -[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
    -[X] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
    -[X] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.
    -[X] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambits
    [x] Plan Noliar v1: Taking Time in Towers
    -[x] The Deceiver: Convicing Qrech that it's fine to teach us his language. Also to convince We prey that we'll let them go if they manage to communicate with us.
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
    -[x] JOHANN: Write in: Design light projectors. He can bring in engineers and/or Adela if he chooses and can get them.
    -[x] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish. (NEW-ish)
    -[x] Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the non-Undumgi civilians of Karag Nar.
    -[x] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry. (NEW)
    -[x] Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic. (FADING)
    -[x] No overwork.
    -[x] Qrech: Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
    --[X] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
    -[x] Attempt to learn a spell from scrolls: Shroud of invisibility
    -[x] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
    -[x] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
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At any rate, I think it's important to remember something: this isn't Stirland.

Gunnars isn't here because the High Priest of Gazul is playing politics. Dreng isn't here so that Thorgrim has a spy in the 8 Peaks. Edda isn't here to secure Karak Izor's vote for making Belegar King of the 8 Peaks. In Stirland, everybody on the council, barring Wilhelmina, was there purely because of politics that Abelhelm couldn't control.

Everybody on the council in the 8 Peaks is here because Belegar personally chose them. Some of that was for political reasons- I imagine there were plenty of people that could have been diplomat instead of Kazrik, and some of them would have spoken Riekspiel- but he wouldn't have put someone on the council if he didn't believe they could pull their weight.
 
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Abhorsen said:
So it seems like the strategy for taking K8P will be to take Kvinn-Wyr next, as Karag Mhonar will serve as the ablative defense, though I think we should figure out what Karag Mhonar is first to make sure it isn't something that might attack us.

Then, we can take the citadel depths, which would shorten our front at that point, though it would anger Clan Mors. Alternatively, we want a way to knock out Clan Eshin, perhaps by posing as an Eshin assassin and attacking Skyre.
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I figure that given the Orcs haven't fortified against it that whatever it is tends to stay in the mountain, which would also fit since we haven't seen hide nor hair nor gribbly mouth of anything out of the place.

However you are absolutely right I think that we should we should figure out what is in there before making moves in Kvinn-Wyr's direction.
 
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