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I support @veekie 's Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition) it got has what I want. I am ambivalent about the 10 favor spell learning, the important part is avoiding a nega-trait and trying to learn invisibility either option isn't a dealbreaker
the only differences between Veekies Plan and my Plan: Queekish Reading v2 are the max action, using the 10 favor spell learning and the paper.
Would you like to elaborate which of these it is you like?
 
[Karag Zilfin, ???: Req 50, 49-10(???)=39.]
[Karag Yar, ???: Req 50, 11-10(???)-10(???)=-9.]
[Karag Rhyn, Greenskins: Req 50, 18+10(score to settle)+10(love a good fight)=38.]
[Karag Mhonar, ???: Req 50, 2+10(???)+10(???)=22.]
[Under Karagril, Clan Moulder: Req 50, 69+10(nearby)-10(focused on Mors)=69.]

[Under Caldera, Clan Mors: Req 50, 83+10(desperate)=93.]
[Under Karag Zilfin, Clan Skryre: Req 50, 5+10(focus)+10(opportunity)=25.]
[Under Karag Yar, Clan Eshin: Req 50, 19+10(focus)+10(opportunity)+10(favoured strategy)=49.]
[Karak Drazh: Req 50, 40+10(our boyz are there)+10(reconquest)+10(Moulder distracted)+10(love a good fight)=80.]

Hmm. There is dwfinitely something in Karag Mhonar. Eshin might have recently reconquered the whole mountain with that negative roll.

The dragon might decide to come out, which is worrying.
 
Wait, Cloak Activity counts? Wow, yeah, then the 10 favor option blows the other out of the water; using the assumptions I detailed before, we go from 13% odds of failure to .7% odds.
Yes. Cloak Activity is a bit borderline but I'll let it count if that's all you get.
Your primary hope is that there'll be someone teaching Shroud of Invisibility, or failing that Cloak Activity or Illusion, anything to make you less likely to end up perforated by Orc choppas.
 
I'll be putting the 10 favor option in the light of that.
And maintaining the 0 favor version as well.
I'm all in favor of voters having choices, but I think one person presenting four variants on the same plan is a little extreme. We get lower engagement on the turn votes than others, and complexity is probably part of that.

(FWIW, I support the Ultimate Tower Edition with the 10 favour expenditure. Dropping our odds of failure that much is huge for peace of mind, and it's also a super in-character thing for Mathilde to do. Remember the Wizard Chic debacle?)
 
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I personally support a plan that focuses on getting both the clear weather tower and the tower which allows Burning Shadows to be used at night. It'll be a significant investment, but it will mean that no matter what the tower can be fired. Given the chaos of war, I find that important.
 
There is a good argument to see if we can get some anti-air on the tower, especially given we know about the dragon. I really want the east entrance to be impenetrable. If we could then duplicate this success on the West Entrance as well, once K8P is taken we would only have to worry about underground assaults.
 
I'm all in favor of voters having choices, but I think one person presenting four variants on the same plan is a little extreme. We get lower engagement on the turn votes than others, and complexity is probably part of that.

(FWIW, I support the Ultimate Tower Edition with the 10 favour expenditure. Dropping our odds of failure that much is huge for peace of mind, and it's also a super in-character thing for Mathilde to do. Remember the Wizard Chic debacle?)
Its approval voting, so voting everything you think is acceptable is fine!


[ ] Plan Translation Extraction
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
-[ ] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
-[ ] Attempt to learn a spell from scrolls (specify which, will be harder than studying it at the Grey College)
--[ ] Shroud of Invisibility
-[ ] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
-[ ] Seek to build a stronger rapport with the Skaven, and see about supplying sources of mental stimulation that your company isn't the only thing keeping him sane.
--[ ] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[ ] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
-[ ] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambits

[ ] Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition)
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
-[ ] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
-[ ] Attempt to learn a spell from scrolls (specify which, will be harder than studying it at the Grey College)
--[ ] Shroud of Invisibility
-[ ] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
-[ ] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[ ] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
-[ ] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.


[ ] Plan Translation Extraction, 10 Pull Gacha Edition
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
-[ ] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
-[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
--[ ] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
-[ ] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
-[ ] Seek to build a stronger rapport with the Skaven, and see about supplying sources of mental stimulation that your company isn't the only thing keeping him sane.
--[ ] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[ ] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
-[ ] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambits

[ ] Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition), 10 Pull Gacha Edition
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
-[ ] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
-[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
--[ ] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
-[ ] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
-[ ] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[ ] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
-[ ] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.

For voter convenience:
[ ] Plan Translation Extraction

-Focuses on the Skaven, just finishing the night light issue and trusting that dwarf hellfire can burn through clouds and fog in a reasonable amount of time.
-Saves College Favor to learn only Invisibility.
-Lower chance of avoiding negatrait, but our odds are still pretty good.


[ ] Plan Translation Extraction, 10 Pull Gacha Edition

-Focuses on the Skaven, just finishing the night light issue and trusting that dwarf hellfire can burn through clouds and fog in a reasonable amount of time.
-Spends College Favor to learn all three unknown spells
-Mathematically almost impossible to get the negatrait, success on any one of three easy rolls is enough.

[ ] Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition)

-Be the best tower that you can be. Any time of day, any weather. Incidental benefits in having a weather controller
-Still has a substantial focus on translation, just not quite total.
-Saves College Favor to learn only Invisibility.
-Lower chance of avoiding negatrait, but our odds are still pretty good.


[ ] Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition), 10 Pull Gacha Edition

-Be the best tower that you can be. Any time of day, any weather. Incidental benefits in having a weather controller
-Still has a substantial focus on translation, just not quite total.
-Spends College Favor to learn all three unknown spells
-Mathematically almost impossible to get the negatrait, success on any one of three easy rolls is enough.
 
I personally support a plan that focuses on getting both the clear weather tower and the tower which allows Burning Shadows to be used at night. It'll be a significant investment, but it will mean that no matter what the tower can be fired. Given the chaos of war, I find that important.
both Veekie's Plan Translation Extraction (Ultimate Tower Edition) and my Plan: Queekish Reading v2 do that.
 
There is a good argument to see if we can get some anti-air on the tower, especially given we know about the dragon. I really want the east entrance to be impenetrable. If we could then duplicate this success on the West Entrance as well, once K8P is taken we would only have to worry about underground assaults.
I personally think anti-air might really be better served with artillery, rather than more magic. This is a PRETTY large concentration of magic on this one peak here, and its probably harmless, but the more magic the more likely that'd change.

Either way, we deliver functionality, and see if Belegar has new orders for defense in the light of freakin dragon. I'm not sure our standing options are intended to deal with a significant dragon.

Not with mostly Moderately Complicated spells.
 
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Dwarf Reputation: 64
Dwarf Favours: 19
Due to the icy relationship between High King Thorgrim and King Belegar, favours cannot be spent at Karaz-a-Karak.

College Reputation: 54
College Favours: 16

Great Deeds:
Thorough destruction of the Teufelheim College of Necromancy.

Pending Dwarf Favours: Rune-axe taken from Druchii guest of Clan Moulder
Pending College Favours: Lustrian Eggs, Skaven campaign (Mousillon & Bastonne, Ubersreik, Nuln)
Currently we have 19 Dwarf Rep and more pending from the Axe.

I'll edit in answers to my post to prevent misinformation, but can we drop in 5 or so dwarf favours into upping the security of our entrance hall at this moment?

Edit: the advantage of living beside a doom weapon and also having a high value prisoner all in the same place have been made clear :p

I.e Belegar has it covered
 
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[ ] Plan Noliar v1 Taking time in towers

Ranald's Coin - specify which face it will be set to
-[ ] The Deceiver: Convicing Qrech that it's fine to teach us his language. Also to convince We prey that we'll let them go if they manage to communicate with us.

Journeyman Maximilian de Gaynesford, Gold Wizard
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.

Magister Johann, Gold Wizard
-[ ] JOHANN: Write in: Design light projectors. He can bring in engineers and/or Adela if he chooses and can get them.
This is how I want to start the night light project

Wizards of Karak Eight Peaks
-[ ] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish. (NEW-ish)
One trip to get her started and let her know we'll pay for more.

The Eastern Imperial Company
-[ ] Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the non-Undumgi civilians of Karag Nar.
We have to have this in place as we get new arrivals.

Karag Nar Penthouse: each turn, you get ONE free choice in this category. Additional selections cost actions.
-[ ] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry. (NEW)

Research and Publishing:
-[ ] Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic. (FADING)
Once per turn, you can write a paper without spending an action thanks to your Tower of Serenity.

-[ ] No overwork.
I'm doing tower stuff with Johann and building


Qrech: (NEW) (warning: though he has books to read, prolonged solitude and boredom may have negative effects on his sanity and cooperativeness)
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
I'd rather go after spoken Queekish. The We bring in a steady stream of live prey we can test it on, a steady stream of documents is harder.

Qrech Gambits: (NEW) (one can be taken for free per action invested in the Qrech category above)
-[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
If setting Max on the anatomy books counts as a Qrech action do both, otherwise prioritise the personal ambition.

Self-Improvement:
-[ ] Attempt to learn a spell from scrolls: Shroud of invisibility
Gotta get that assassin confidence back, preferably justified

Karak Eight Peaks, friendly:
-[ ] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
Thus I have vowed. More people incoming means more Ranaldites, some of whom will be troublemakers. We need a respectable face of Ranald established to maintain his positive rep.

Personal Relations:
-[ ] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
 
@noliar, your plan is illegal as it currently stands. It has two separate Qrech gambits, and only one can be selected for free, since you're only taking one Qrech action. Also, you don't seem to be doing any tower construction; is it your plan to ask Belegar for more time in the next Council meeting?
 
I really want to study the damn Vitae.
I really want to build the temple to Ranald the Gambler, so I feel you. I hope we can do AV as our next project and both get what we want.
so....any speculation on why it's completely empty there at Karag Mhonar?
A lot of discussion happened already, around pages 3129-3131. This seems maximally plausible to me, personally.
Excessive tripping. OSHA was invented after Karag Mhonar was excavated.
Never mind, give this woman a medal, she's 10000% correct, how could I have been so blind
 
There is a good argument to see if we can get some anti-air on the tower, especially given we know about the dragon. I really want the east entrance to be impenetrable. If we could then duplicate this success on the West Entrance as well, once K8P is taken we would only have to worry about underground assaults.

May not be the worst idea. But I don't think we can afford this right now.

I do know there is a canonical Emperor Dragon that considered hits from Imperial Greatcannons mere annoyances, so I'd think anything below a cannon battery is useless as anti air against it. And then they'd probably need to be put on special mounts and heavily runed up to be effective.

Given that Belegar is so desperate for cannonry he is buying from Nuln, putting a battery on top of a mountain where it would only be useful against oneof the many foes still in K8P is probably not economical.
 
so....any speculation on why it's completely empty there at Karag Mhonar?
Something that's killing stuff slowly enough that trolls with their regeneration and difficulty to kill can leave before they die, that kills them noticably enough that they actually do leave instead of just sitting there, eternally regenerating, and that they can not actually do anything about, so it's probably either etheral or air borne or something like that.

There was a decent gribly gues made that was already linked above.
 
Based on Veekie's plan with 10 favor, with some differences.
[ ] Plan Temple
-[ ] [MAX] Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
-[ ] [JOHANN] Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
-[ ] [DUCK] Work with Panoramia for her to finally get around to investigating the greenskin mushrooms she found.
-[ ] [EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
--[ ] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
-[ ] [TEMPLE] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
-[ ] [TOWER] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
-[ ] [QRECH] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] [SERENITY] Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[ ] [PENTHOUSE] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
-[ ] [COIN] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.
 
May not be the worst idea. But I don't think we can afford this right now.

I do know there is a canonical Emperor Dragon that considered hits from Imperial Greatcannons mere annoyances, so I'd think anything below a cannon battery is useless as anti air against it. And then they'd probably need to be put on special mounts and heavily runed up to be effective.

Given that Belegar is so desperate for cannonry he is buying from Nuln, putting a battery on top of a mountain where it would only be useful against oneof the many foes still in K8P is probably not economical.
Well I don't know if this applies to Warhammer but in most fantasy settings frost dragons are normally quite weak to fire damage... So an Aqshy tower could be useful... that or a Flame Storm tower...
 
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Finally awake and caught up.

-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.

He's patient and methodical, and having him cross-reference the translation work will make it much easier to spot issues. The Ratling Gun is valuable too, and I'll put him on it next turn, but I expect the synergies of stacking everything on one task to outweigh that in the short term.

-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.

Supply translation documents.

-[ ] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.

Supply translation documents.

-[ ] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.

With the Undumgi being upgraded to council peer status, this is more critical than ever.

-[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
--[ ] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.

This saves us something like 2 AP overall, and 5 College Favor per AP is a price I'm happily willing to pay. It also reduces the chances of a negatrait to negligible levels.

-[ ] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.

Basically mandatory, imo. Increases the number of situations the tower can be used in dramatically, and adds Eye of Sauron parallels.

-[ ] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.

Beyond the boost to the superweapon, weather control has practical economic benefits to K8P, letting us ensure optimal crop growth conditions. Having an Azyr and Aqshy tower on our peak also seems like a solid start towards eventually expanding into a College branch campus, especially considering we have journeymen of those winds here.

-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.

And, of course, the thing that the duckling and Johann actions were dedicated towards.

-[ ] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.

The most strategically relevant of our current paper options.

-[ ] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.

Eshin assassins are the key threat here - forcible entry requires an enemy force to get all the way to the peak of Karag Nar. That said, I'm still planning on taking the other security measure next turn - don't skimp on security for your superweapon!

[ ] Plan Redshirt v1
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves.
-[ ] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence.
-[ ] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Eight Peaks branch keep a careful eye on the mood and actions of the Undumgi.
-[ ] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
--[ ] Spend 10 Favour to get all remaining spells.
-[ ] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
-[ ] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
-[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[ ] Serenity: Write a paper: Your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[ ] Penthouse: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent surreptitious entry.
-[ ] The Deceiver: Support Skaven Gambit.

@veekie This is identical to one of your current listed plans, so really I'm just giving it a shorter and snappier title. :V
 
@BoneyM you said that the more moving parts added to a long term interrogation, the more complicated it would become but... As I see it, a Mindhole caster would be able to reset their interactions with each cast, so the increase in complication would be minimal?

If so, I would like to put forward spending the College favour needed to get someone with mindhole to be able to come in an re-check various questions asked in different ways.

Preferably someone who speaks dwarf and is good with languages.

For reference to plan makers:

  • Getting a Journeyman/Magister/Lord Magister of a specific College/with a specific spell to come assist with a specific question/project/calamity
2/5/10 per six months. This is assuming they have no interest in the topic and will receive none of the credit (or blame) for whatever it is you're trying to do.
 
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