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The thing is that even if the Dragon has no grudges pending he is still going to have a fuckton of Dwarven Treasure (if only because he lives in K8P and he has probably stolen lots of it from greenskins and skavens)... And if he doesn´t give it back... Well he is entering the Book of Grudges.

Well it depends on how radical Belegar is feeling, that is his clan's twice or thrice stolen treasure. So he can just say 'as a first payment to our new friend Mr Frost-Breath Skaven-Muncher he will get rightful ownership of everything he has liberated from the greenskins and ratmen'

The dragon need neither know nor care about the formality.
 
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Technically it's implied that the original dragon lust for gold is because it's a nice metal to swallow and regurgitate for aiding digestion and resist dragon stomach acid, because obviously gold coins didn't exist as dragons evolved in mallus and they don't trade. It evolved into 'stuff looks nice' apparently.

The alternative is that dragons were eating gold veined rock and digesting the gold as part of their bodies, but that sounds a bit weird.

It'd be completely stupid and highly warhammerish if all that was needed to derail dragon cultural lust for gold was some alka seltzer in industrial amounts and some gourmet prime cuts monthly.

Failing that we can make a contract with the metal college for industrial amounts of false gold that reverts into something eatable as long as the alliance holds.

It'd be hilarious if the dragon was paid in chocolate coins transfigured into wind gold.
 
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I disagree strenuously. We gave him last turn off. Sucks that he didn't get to blow anything up, but them's the breaks. We should either find useful work for him or let him go so we can get half an AP back.
What would you recommend as useful work for him?
...do we know guns? We know how to shoot a pistol. That is not quite the same thing.
If you know how to use a weapon, you know how to maintain a weapon. For a device like a firearm, knowledge of maintenance can easily translate into knowledge of construction.
Let us proceed under the assumption that Boney isn't writing the action plan with trap options. Consider the scenario wherein the sky is overcast, but the ambient light levels are high enough to prevent sharp-edged shadows from forming. Bright light sufficient to cast a shadow at night will not work nearly as well during the day.
Fair, but I'd still rather have the Aqshy beacon, since that still puts a half-day clock on any siege.
 
Needs capitalization.

Should be "that", I think.


What the shit. What the hell is up with Karag Mhonar. At this point, I'm scared of even going in there to scout. I wonder if our Skaven friend would know anything about what the fuck.

... Guess we look at it with our Windsage eyes first.

Also: well, I guess Dreng sure recon'd the heck out of the Peaks!
We could ask the dragon...
 
[ ] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
[ ] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.

These two taken in combination are a pretty safe option to get the lexicon out of him, without him suspecting what he is giving away, as long as the Documents come from Mors.

Also, i think anything beyond the vaguest preparation plans for the Dragon are jumping the gun. Emperor Dragons are the scariest thing in Warhammer. Ice Dragons being Hierophants makes them a match for most greater demons.

From the wiki:
- "Ice Dragons are the more sedate and slumbersome of their kind"
- "Emperor Dragons are beyond rare, and the few that have survived spend most of their time hidden away and asleep."
- "An Emperor Dragon in battle is a terrible sight, capable of laying waste to whole armies, destroying towns, razing crop fields and consuming herds of livestock."

I'm going to go with "draco dormiens nunquam titillandus" in this case.
 
Is anyone up for spending 10 college favor this turn to rig the gacha and try to one turn our spell list? It'll save a lot of time and be very worth it.
...it is, in fact, extremely tempting. We would need to learn either Illusion or Shroud of Invisibility to avoid the trait, but the former is partially known already, and as you point out, College Favour is very gettable. We don't get the benefit of the Tower of Dusk and Dawn on our spell learning, but we get action economy (yay!) and instruction (probably not as good as a +20 on the roll, but still good).
What would you recommend as useful work for him?

If you know how to use a weapon, you know how to maintain a weapon. For a device like a firearm, knowledge of maintenance can easily translate into knowledge of construction.

Fair, but I'd still rather have the Aqshy beacon, since that still puts a half-day clock on any siege.
* Max is a trained smith with 16 Learning, Patient, and Law of Logic. He could take a swing at any of the artifacts in our backlog and do a good job. My personal preference is "work on getting Johann unstuck on the ratling gun," but @veekie makes a good point about synergy.
* The issue with that logic is that we know that Johann knows how to use guns, so clearly that basic knowledge isn't good enough.
* I definitely agree that if we can only have one, we should have Red. The question is whether it's worth going for both.
 
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...it is, in fact, extremely tempting. We would need to learn either Illusion or Shroud of Invisibility to avoid the trait, but the former is partially known already, and as you point out, College Favour is very gettable. We don't get the benefit of the Tower of Dusk and Dawn on our spell learning, but we get action economy (yay!) and instruction (probably not as good as a +20 on the roll, but still good).
The college gives us a lower DC rather than a bonus IIRC. They have thier own spell-learning set-ups.
 
Eeeh, 10 favour for a one or two AP saving seems like a bit of a bad deal, when compared to some of the other stuff we could get for similar prices.
 
The college gives us a lower DC rather than a bonus IIRC. They have thier own spell-learning set-ups.
Yeah, I understand that. The question is whether the lower DC is a delta of more than 20. If it isn't, Tower is still better... but having a guaranteed swing at both the spell we really want and a partially-known spell that would avoid the negatrait is probably worth it.
Eeeh, 10 favour for a one or two AP saving seems like a bit of a bad deal, when compared to some of the other stuff we could get for similar prices.
The real value isn't the long-term AP saving, it's "we get a guarantee of two chances to avoid the nega-trait this turn," which is otherwise impossible.
@BoneyM Can we buy books from the High Elves?
This has been asked a bunch. Not without trade contacts in Marienburg.
 
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...it is, in fact, extremely tempting. We would need to learn either Illusion or Shroud of Invisibility to avoid the trait, but the former is partially known already, and as you point out, College Favour is very gettable. We don't get the benefit of the Tower of Dusk and Dawn on our spell learning, but we get action economy (yay!) and instruction (probably not as good as a +20 on the roll, but still good).
I will say that it's worth it, and will second any plan that puts this in motion.
Currently the action economy is against us and it might take actual years to get all the spells we want.
 
@Quest I don't understand the mechanics of how it would work - but people say it is possible. I'm up for it :).
Basically, gacha works by going to the college and hoping that someone is teaching the spells we want to learn. This translates into a roll. By paying 10 favor, we are essentially pulling strings to make sure that the spells we want are definitely being taught.
 
[] Plan: Queekish Reading
-[] MAX: Bring him into the classified study on Warptech and have him assist Johann with the Ratling Gun. (NEW)
-[] JOHANN: Join him on raids into Clan Mors territory with the aim of finding written correspondence. (NEW)
-[] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid against Clan Mors, looking for wealth and Queekish. (NEW-ish)
-[][EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[][Task] Blue Tower: build a tower that uses Azyr to create clear sky on demand.
-[][Task] Red Tower: build a tower that uses Aqshy to create mystical flames (and non-mystical light) to use the mountain at night.
-[][Qrech] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for him to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[][Gambit] Convince Qrech that the Empire has already translated Queekish, but his help could provide a faster turnaround and better help you plan an attack on Clan Mors.
-[] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
--[] Spend 10 favour to reschedule all classes so you get a roll for every spell
-[][Serenity] The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
-[][Penthouse] Your dungeon was built with a reasonable amount of paranoia. Apply an unreasonable amount of paranoia.
-[] The Deceiver: Use it to sell our Qrech Gambit.

What do people think about this?
 
Eeeh, 10 favour for a one or two AP saving seems like a bit of a bad deal, when compared to some of the other stuff we could get for similar prices.
We have a lot more favor than we have AP. We get about 4 per turn free before taking into account any pending favors and any favors for actions that also happen to help the college. This is all without actively spending AP on getting favor.

APs are pounds, favors are pennies.
 
What do people think about this?
I'd prefer either handlers or Undumgi for the EIC action, I don't think the mistform paper is really worth writing (I am biased towards writing papers with tactical applications, in pursuit of a goal of "making the Empire better able to fight its enemies," so I'd prefer to get the bonus on the Waaaagh countering paper), and I think securing our home against infiltration is better than securing the dungeon when we've already got a Mystical Matrix on our boy.
 
As i said , we could try trading dwarf stuff that we really want from the loot as one of the conditions for making this work. Cause belegar is very rich and i guess he could maybe kinda ignore generic stuff from the hoard is my hope for the good stuff. But the good stuff from the loot wich is dwarf origin could be forced to trade as a condition of staying. And him keeping the mountain is that he helps us a time or two and will be available for help in the future but probably for silly amounts of wealth tough but he wont attack dwarfs more or less is the hope. And silk will make belegar richer.

This truly depends only if he doesnt have grudges or if the grudges arent super massive atleast.

And diplomacy to even kinda succeed we probably will need either the supreme patriarch who probably has previous dragon xp or asarnil or maybe even both of them for this kinda work and this is far in the future to be honest. We can kinda treat the groundside of that mountain as we do trolls meanwhile to be honest...

We kinda will have to investigate the mystery in mhonar at some point.
 
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