Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
So, if inappropriate use of Shyish to make skeletons is "necromancy", would that mean inappropriate use of Ulgu to show them all is "umbramancy"?
That's what I was looking for. Shadowmancy sounds so mundane in comparison. Let's declare it official.

...Crap. Now I'm actually invested in Mathilde becoming the founder of Umbramancy. Will we find a great enough cause for it other than delusional love that makes us wish for our delusions to become reality? Or will sheercynicism and ambition drive us on this path?
 
No, no, this is stupid.

Necromancy has created vastly more terrors than it's saved anyone. Repeating this is a terrible idea.
 
No, no, this is stupid.

Necromancy has created vastly more terrors than it's saved anyone. Repeating this is a terrible idea.
You are, of course, entirely correct. No form of Dhar should be used at all, metaphorical insulation or not. And even reading Liber Mortis strictly for the magical theory is illegal under Article Seven.

But it's fun to consider. Think of it like learning to ride a bike. If you fall off the bike and hurt yourself, you don't ban all bicycles, you say "okay not that way" and learn to do it differently and better next time.
 
Yeah.

Which isn't to say that studying the book is entirely unworthy of scholarship. Just that you must draw a clear fucking line between theory and actual practice.

Studying it to better learn how to counter Necromancy? Such is good, it is certainly the least "Innately corrupt" source of such knowledge that also actually knows what it's talking about.

Studying it and adapting insights that do not actually touch upon Dark Magic? Such is acceptable, though dangerous.

But that's where the line needs to be drawn. It needs to be treated as a reference on how necromancers think and operate, and not as a tome of power in and of itself. The moment you cross that line is the moment you need to be shot--and that's why the copy is only permitted to be studied by those who have been determined absolutely pure of heart and mind.

Now mind you, there are some potentially viable insights that can be had given our other acquired treasures and opportunities. The idea of manipulating power at a remove through a Wind has interesting insights when you combine it with our source of 'Pure' magical energy that we've acquired, as well as our Enchantment talent--devising a method to create permanent enchantments using our little wellspring is something that this could be very helpful. But the line must be drawn at "It's safe to use it as a textbook, but not as a primer"
 
Last edited:
Personally I'm of the mindset that the Book should not be opened except under the most extreme of circumstances, mainly when we hit the point where it is reasonable to cross the Godzilla Threshold and have to Murder Death Kill an army right now or else the Empire is in super big trouble.
 
Thinking of the book as an oh-shit button is misusing it. We could probably pull off some crazy nonsense after frantically skimming through it trying to find whatever the most immediately available technique is for solving some extremely severe current problem, but that approach will inherently leave us unable to understand or even notice the kind of complexity and depth of knowledge that the book actually offers- meaning that whatever "solution" we draw out of it will inevitably be a slapdash one, likely to result in our suicidal sacrifice at best. Something more effective and elegant would probably have been available if we'd been able to spend the time to sit down, read it properly, think about it, and decipher and adapt safe and usable techniques from the nasty ones that the book offers to even the desperate and short on time.

If reading the book is something we would ever consider doing, then as long as it is in our hands slow and careful is a vastly superior approach to treating it as an emergency measure. Preferably with Ranald's Blessing on it every single action to minimize the chance of catastrophically fucking up and/or becoming corrupted- Mathilde might not be "absolutely pure of heart and mind" but it's literal divine favor from a god willing to try and keep her on the right path even while doing shady things. I doubt the Grand Theogonist gets a Sigmar's Blessing bonus on his actions that's more than, say, twice as good.

You build your superweapons meticulously and with care, and do it well before you actually need a superweapon, then stash them away and use them at the appropriate time. And maybe try to figure out how to make a nuclear power plant instead of a dirty bomb while you're at it.
 
Last edited:
Sigmar not even paying attention is definitely weird, though. I'm not sure how one looks into a god, but now might be a time to start drawing up plans.
Nah, we're just really spoiled by Ranald in that regard. It's a major tenant of his "mainstream" faith that, unlike the other gods, if you pray enough he WILL hear you and respond. He might respond by getting your pockets picked, but at least he always listens.
 
Yeah, there's a thought. Necromancy is all about the manipulation of [all the winds except smushed up and rotten] through the use of Shyish. We've got access to a magical substance which is basically [all the winds]. Not smushed up winds, pure and separate winds, but in a combined physical state.

And we know the Liber Mortis would let even us skip the blowing-ourselves-up stage of Ulgu+Dhar and go straight to the atrocities, so obviously the knowledge is highly cross-college applicable.

So, uh, what if we read it to learn its techniques, but instead of using the lowest metaphysical state of [all the winds combined], we went for manipulating the middle metaphysical state of [all of the winds combined], with the intention of spinning that state into its most refined and balanced form?

Teeny Tiny Qhaysh user.
 
Last edited:
Personally I'm of the mindset that the Book should not be opened except under the most extreme of circumstances, mainly when we hit the point where it is reasonable to cross the Godzilla Threshold and have to Murder Death Kill an army right now or else the Empire is in super big trouble.
Without ever actually reading the book, I doubt cracking it open during a crisis will allow for us to use it effectively.

If we ever plan to use it in an emergency, we need to study it beforehand as well.
 
[X] The vacuum must be filled. Step forward and take command. Fulfill Van Hal's final legacy in the manner that it begun.
[X] Do nothing with it; your role is to safeguard it.
 
Huh some of the Warhammer fluff claims the copy of the Libre Mortis is capable of devouring the souls of any who read it and once summoned a daemon, which actually increase the value of the information within it pertaining to the undead due to it explicitly not leaking Dhar into the atmosphere whereas reading the copy apparently has serious issues of warp phenomena occurring. Having said that it would wise to not open it again until at least Mathilde has some actual Ulgu wards obscuring her home, and simply translating the information on undead into a form that is useful for those who fight against Necromancers will probably take a lifetime, or at least doing so in a manner that insures it won't be misused by necromancers will.
Yeah, there's a thought. Necromancy is all about the manipulation of [all the winds except smushed up and rotten] through the use of Shyish. We've got access to a magical substance which is basically [all the winds]. Not smushed up winds, pure and separate winds, but in a combined physical state.

And we know the Liber Mortis would let even us skip the blowing-ourselves-up stage of Ulgu+Dhar and go straight to the atrocities, so obviously the knowledge is highly cross-college applicable.

So, uh, what if we read it to learn its techniques, but instead of using the lowest metaphysical state of [all the winds combined], we went for manipulating the middle metaphysical state of [all of the winds combined], with the intention of spinning that state into its most refined and balanced form?

Teeny Tiny Qhaysh user. The first human one.
Sigh. Humans do not have the finesse necessary to simultaneously manipulate all eight winds at once, or rather they lack the mental capacity to multitask at 9+ things at once, which is what High Elves are doing* when they wield Qhaysh. The other issue is that relative to the Elves their soul are hilariously malleable when exposed to warp energy.

The advantage of having such a malleable soul is that it allows them to with enough time, and spark of genius to become similar to whatever wind they align with. This is how they can achieve immortality while remaining mentally stable/consistent, or at least extend their lifespan long enough that they'll die stopping the madmen who keep showing up to claim "the End is neigh!" long before it runs out. The downside is their soul can be altered in distinct manners when directly exposed to separate WoM, which is why even the act of swapping between two winds drives them insane due to the contradictory traits each wind inherently possess.

*Well technically they're doing so in a manner that has the individual components flow in a manner that produces a superior end product while simultaneously keeping them separate.
 
It's more that we can use it as a means to enchant with. Tools from Ulgu, pre-designed patterns as a mold, and then we use the Ulgu-tools to manipulate the liquid magic into a pre-designed template.

It's probably the closest we can get to Dwarf Rune level enchantments without actually being a Dwarf.
 
Huh some of the Warhammer fluff claims the copy of the Libre Mortis is capable of devouring the souls of any who read it and once summoned a daemon, which actually increase the value of the information within it pertaining to the undead due to it explicitly not leaking Dhar into the atmosphere whereas reading the copy apparently has serious issues of warp phenomena occurring. Having said that it would wise to not open it again until at least Mathilde has some actual Ulgu wards obscuring her home, and simply translating the information on undead into a form that is useful for those who fight against Necromancers will probably take a lifetime, or at least doing so in a manner that insures it won't be misused by necromancers will.
Sigh. Humans do not have the finesse necessary to simultaneously manipulate all eight winds at once, or rather they lack the mental capacity to multitask at 9+ things at once, which is what High Elves are doing* when they wield Qhaysh. The other issue is that relative to the Elves their soul are hilariously malleable when exposed to warp energy.

The advantage of having such a malleable soul is that it allows them to with enough time, and spark of genius to become similar to whatever wind they align with. This is how they can achieve immortality while remaining mentally stable/consistent, or at least extend their lifespan long enough that they'll die stopping the madmen who keep showing up to claim "the End is neigh!" long before it runs out. The downside is their soul can be altered in distinct manners when directly exposed to separate WoM, which is why even the act of swapping between two winds drives them insane due to the contradictory traits each wind inherently possess.

*Well technically they're doing so in a manner that has the individual components flow in a manner that produces a superior end product while simultaneously keeping them separate.
But we have a liquified magic stuff.


The book is probably in the low end of our priorities anyway. We need to pick the low hanging spells for the magic bonus, we need enchantment for the background knowledge, then the magic juice to see if it can be used in enchantment or other stuff, then maybe the book or the shys-kebabs dependin on results.
 
Nah, we're just really spoiled by Ranald in that regard. It's a major tenant of his "mainstream" faith that, unlike the other gods, if you pray enough he WILL hear you and respond. He might respond by getting your pockets picked, but at least he always listens.
He takes a personal interest.

Even if often the personal interest involves a gallon bucket of popcorn.
Yeah, there's a thought. Necromancy is all about the manipulation of [all the winds except smushed up and rotten] through the use of Shyish. We've got access to a magical substance which is basically [all the winds]. Not smushed up winds, pure and separate winds, but in a combined physical state.

And we know the Liber Mortis would let even us skip the blowing-ourselves-up stage of Ulgu+Dhar and go straight to the atrocities, so obviously the knowledge is highly cross-college applicable.

So, uh, what if we read it to learn its techniques, but instead of using the lowest metaphysical state of [all the winds combined], we went for manipulating the middle metaphysical state of [all of the winds combined], with the intention of spinning that state into its most refined and balanced form?

Teeny Tiny Qhaysh user.
Hmm, well, the main advantage of necromancy is that Dhar is EASILY available, so you switch from a more limited resource to an unlimited one.
Going metaphysical tongs on Qhaysh is inherently less useful because the hard part is getting usable quantities of Qhaysh AND then working with a force that's completely different from human experience...to produce weaker(due to low quantity), if more esoteric results.
Without ever actually reading the book, I doubt cracking it open during a crisis will allow for us to use it effectively.

If we ever plan to use it in an emergency, we need to study it beforehand as well.
Basically yeah. Emergency opening means we have no choice but to cast one of the necromantic spells inside straight, which solves the Right Now problem but absolutely WOULD corrupt you.
Studying it means we'd face more mundane temptations of power. Its climbing a wall up 30 floors when you know theres a lift RIGHT over there even if the entire lift is covered in shit. You'd be clean, but you won't be thinking that over your burning muscles and the risk of falling off and landing in shit anyway
 
But Mathilde can safely walk the knife's edge between temptation and corruption, since she wouldn't act on it without us players approving of it in a vote. And we would neeever do that. Of course not. Why are you looking at me like that?
(Guys! They're falling for my distraction! Mission Umbramancy is go! Mission Umbramancy is go!)

See? I haven't even stepped near the doom-vote.
 
Last edited:
But Mathilde can safely walk the knife's edge between temptation and corruption, since she wouldn't act on it without us players approving of it in a vote. And we would neeever do that. Of course not. Why are you looking at me like that?
(Guys! They're falling for my distraction! Mission Umbramancy is go! Mission Umbramancy is go!)

See? I haven't even stepped near the doom-vote.
Sure. We could trust the player base... But, if Mathilde goes far enough, Boney could present all-corrupt options. We didn't used to get any, really, but since (in?) Sylviania they pop up all the time.
 
When the last time Mathilde took vacation? Cause working all day everyday and some more aren't steps to long healthy live.
 
Yeah.

Which isn't to say that studying the book is entirely unworthy of scholarship. Just that you must draw a clear fucking line between theory and actual practice.

Studying it to better learn how to counter Necromancy? Such is good, it is certainly the least "Innately corrupt" source of such knowledge that also actually knows what it's talking about.

Studying it and adapting insights that do not actually touch upon Dark Magic? Such is acceptable, though dangerous.

But that's where the line needs to be drawn. It needs to be treated as a reference on how necromancers think and operate, and not as a tome of power in and of itself. The moment you cross that line is the moment you need to be shot--and that's why the copy is only permitted to be studied by those who have been determined absolutely pure of heart and mind.

Now mind you, there are some potentially viable insights that can be had given our other acquired treasures and opportunities. The idea of manipulating power at a remove through a Wind has interesting insights when you combine it with our source of 'Pure' magical energy that we've acquired, as well as our Enchantment talent--devising a method to create permanent enchantments using our little wellspring is something that this could be very helpful. But the line must be drawn at "It's safe to use it as a textbook, but not as a primer"

Seems like a good idea to me. We probably want to read the book simply for the general insight into magic it would give, if it gives the ability to empower our spells and enchantments by using our magic juice then that's even better.



Anyway on a different note what faith should we try to support then? I don't mean personally since it's Ranald all the way but we need a popular god for Stirland to prevent people flocking to Chaos and vampires. As such which god should we recommend for patronage from Stirland.

Shallya: is a popular goddess but her faith is also riddled with vampires, which is annoying in Stirland.
Morr: might be a good choice, but he frowns on desecration which is annoying since this is Stirland and you really want to burn all those corpses. Not sure if it's possible but maybe we can make cremation an acceptable method for dealing with corpses.
Verena: opposed to Ranald which is a bit awkward, also more of a city goddess
Taal: probably even worse than Sigmar on the gives a shit about us meter
Rhya: Who?
Ulric: Wolves!
Sigmar: lol

I think that's pretty much it for Empire Gods. I'm thinking patronage to Morr if they sanction cremation is the way to go, otherwise maybe Shallya and lots of spies.
 
Seems like a good idea to me. We probably want to read the book simply for the general insight into magic it would give, if it gives the ability to empower our spells and enchantments by using our magic juice then that's even better.



Anyway on a different note what faith should we try to support then? I don't mean personally since it's Ranald all the way but we need a popular god for Stirland to prevent people flocking to Chaos and vampires. As such which god should we recommend for patronage from Stirland.

Shallya: is a popular goddess but her faith is also riddled with vampires, which is annoying in Stirland.
Morr: might be a good choice, but he frowns on desecration which is annoying since this is Stirland and you really want to burn all those corpses. Not sure if it's possible but maybe we can make cremation an acceptable method for dealing with corpses.
Verena: opposed to Ranald which is a bit awkward, also more of a city goddess
Taal: probably even worse than Sigmar on the gives a shit about us meter
Rhya: Who?
Ulric: Wolves!
Sigmar: lol

I think that's pretty much it for Empire Gods. I'm thinking patronage to Morr if they sanction cremation is the way to go, otherwise maybe Shallya and lots of spies.
inb4 ADODA/torroar fans try to push Esmeralda
 
You know Myrmjdia isn't bad. Very warlike but like her mum likes cities and civilization. Which is what humans do anyways solo yeah.

For me War Goddess or Justice Goddess.
 
Sure. We could trust the player base... But, if Mathilde goes far enough, Boney could present all-corrupt options. We didn't used to get any, really, but since (in?) Sylviania they pop up all the time.

Thats the point. Reading the book is not inherently corrupting. Using it is.

All-corrupt options require insanity. Current method requires hubris.

Anyway on a different note what faith should we try to support then? I don't mean personally since it's Ranald all the way but we need a popular god for Stirland to prevent people flocking to Chaos and vampires. As such which god should we recommend for patronage from Stirland.

We stay out of it. Their religious belief is not our domain and Kasmir is here on the orders of the Grand Theogonist to see to it that Sigmar is supreme.

Thats a fight we get nothing out of.
 
Seems like a good idea to me. We probably want to read the book simply for the general insight into magic it would give, if it gives the ability to empower our spells and enchantments by using our magic juice then that's even better.



Anyway on a different note what faith should we try to support then? I don't mean personally since it's Ranald all the way but we need a popular god for Stirland to prevent people flocking to Chaos and vampires. As such which god should we recommend for patronage from Stirland.

Shallya: is a popular goddess but her faith is also riddled with vampires, which is annoying in Stirland.
Morr: might be a good choice, but he frowns on desecration which is annoying since this is Stirland and you really want to burn all those corpses. Not sure if it's possible but maybe we can make cremation an acceptable method for dealing with corpses.
Verena: opposed to Ranald which is a bit awkward, also more of a city goddess
Taal: probably even worse than Sigmar on the gives a shit about us meter
Rhya: Who?
Ulric: Wolves!
Sigmar: lol

I think that's pretty much it for Empire Gods. I'm thinking patronage to Morr if they sanction cremation is the way to go, otherwise maybe Shallya and lots of spies.
Yeah the cremation thing is not going to fly what so ever.

Also Morr and Sigmar are the two prevelant gods in StIrland so no real change is needed.

And even if they weren't what do expect Mathilde to do to sway people's faith.

Also what' so funny about Sigmar
 
Give the book to the G.T and make him save Sylvania?

I think Weber should take charge of army and later give up the book.
 
Back
Top