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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BoneyM said:
< He believes that without you, Karak Eight Peaks would be a pyrrhic symbol of vengeance instead of a reborn home for his people.
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BoneyM said:
Goraki: Most Dwarves consider Ranger tactics - ambushes, trickery, assassinations and sabotage - to be distasteful. This Dwarf has embraced them.
Realpolitik: This Dwarf has learned that lies are just one more weapon in the war for his people's survival.
Stressed: Though he's sure it is for the right reasons, swerving from the ways of his Ancestors weighs on him.
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I like to think we're in large part responsible for those last three traits, with the third in large part coming from acquiring the first two, Realpolitik crystallising from the lie regarding the Moulder offensive.

Still, yes, a social action and/or a Barazul might be good now.
 
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Alliterate said:
I like to think we're in large part responsible for those last three traits, with the third coming in large part from acquiring the first two, Realpolitik coming from the lie regarding the Moulder offensive.

Still, yes, a social action and/or a Barazul might be good now.
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With only Goraki he could tell himself that what he's been doing has been done by dwarves before.
With Realpolitik he can do that no longer which gave him stressed.
 
I don't think what Belegar is feeling is something dwarf therapists are equipped to deal with, it's not any of the usual cause of slayer oaths. In fact much as I hate the comparison the closest thing to what he is grappling with is this:

"Where was Grimnir when our warriors were dying? Where was Valaya when our children sickened? When we called out for aid in the deep places where we delved, it was not Grungni who answered our call, but mighty Hashut who delivered us in our time of need. Who are the real traitors here? Our kin who abandoned us to madness and death or we who only sought to survive against the forces of Chaos? One day there will be a reckoning and it will be the Sons of the Father of Darkness who will have the victory, not the weak willed spawn of the pathetic Ancestor Gods." —Mordian Slagfist, Chaos Dwarf Warrior

It's just that in Belegar's case the un-dwarfy ways are intrigue and deception not Chaos.

Under those circumstances I think Mathilde as a human is probably one better equipped than most to deal with this, because this kind of doubt is a lot more common among humans.
 
So... How soon can we drive Clan Mors out of Karagril?

Yes, yes, I know, I know. They're there to soak up Red Fang orcs, and to over-extend Mors.

But what kind of timeline are we looking at here, for Clan Angrund gaining control over all of Karagril? Were our rough plans or strategic estimates that we'd take a few other areas first, with under-Karagril coming in considerably later?

Is it possible for us to just wait until the Red Fang's enthusiasm peters out a bit, and then drive Mors out and take over ourselves?


Question, how doable is it to block off underway passages? If we take an area that has an underway connection, are we stuck with having it? Or, is it possible for us to, say, seal off the Karagril-Karak Drazh underway passage for a while? (Assuming we had the military forces to hold off the orcs of course. I'm asking about the engineering viability of this. I'm feeling like the answer is no, otherwise we would do this for more of the underway, but...)

EDIT:
Also yes, I myself wasn't sure whether the Princess Edda getting 'Traditionalist' trait was a new thing or not. Having another person point it out though, makes me think that it was indeed a change. Can anybody else confirm or deny this?
 
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The Battle of Karagril, Part 6
  • Threadmarks
    • [*] Plan HUMINT
    -[*] ELF: Claim him.
    -[*] SKAVEN: Claim him.
    -[*] PUPS: Cede them.
    -[*] OOZE: Cede it.
    -[*] AXE: Split it.
    -[*] BOOK: Claim it.
    -[*] GOLD: Cede it.

    The final agreement was straightforward: you got the prisoners and the book, Johann got his wolf-rat pups, the ooze, and the gold, and you'll split whatever credit ends up being produced by Kragg's investigation. It's a bit strange to walk away from that much gold; perhaps you've finally started to internalize the Grey College's disemphasis on money, or perhaps you're the same faithful of Ranald you've always been, giving up hard cash for the unknowable rewards the other possibilities might offer.

    Between their enmity for their ancestral foes and their society that uses Clan pressure to resolve petty crime and exile to deal with anything worse, Dwarves don't really take prisoners that often, but that doesn't mean they're not fully capable of building a prison when asked. At your prompting stone blocks and steel bars are brought into an unused room not terribly far from your quarters in Karag Nar, though it might be wise to put some thought to building something more convenient and permanent before too long. And with both of your captives still held in the grip of Mockery of Death, you finally find an ideal purpose for your earliest magical discovery: Mathilde's Mystical Matrix. With a deft grip on Ulgu, you weave strands of magic inside the torsos of each of your prisoners, and once the web of magical power is complete you lodge within it the fully-formed spell of Mockery of Death. Should either be able to escape from their cages - unlikely, but both Skaven and Druchii are not to be underestimated - they will run into the Alarm on the door, which will both inform you and collapse the Matrix inside of them and unleash the spell it contains.

    That takes care of them in the short term, so now it's time to start considering the medium term. They're both yours to interrogate or dispose of as you see fit, and though both could be intriguing sources of intelligence and information, you've already got more avenues of investigation than you know what to do with.

    [ ] ELF: Keep him...
    - [ ] primarily for the strategic intelligence he could provide.
    - [ ] primarily as a source of information about Clan Moulder.
    - [ ] primarily as a source of information about the Druchii.
    [ ] ELF: Extradite him to Ulthuan.
    [ ] ELF: Ransom him to Naggaroth.
    [ ] ELF: Send him to the Emperor's Spymaster for questioning.
    [ ] ELF: Send him to the Grey College for questioning.

    [ ] SKAVEN: Keep him...
    - [ ] primarily for the strategic intelligence he could provide.
    - [ ] primarily as a source of information on the Skaven.
    - [ ] primarily as a source to learn Queekish.
    [ ] SKAVEN: Turn him over to the Grey College.
    [ ] SKAVEN: Turn him over to the Dwarves.

    And if you do end up keeping either of them, their current prison is a bit makeshift. Maybe Dwarf-made is proof enough, or maybe you should work on a longer-term solution.

    [ ] CELLS: They'll be fine where they are.
    [ ] CELLS: Talk to Princess Edda about building a proper dungeon in Karag Nar.
    As well as holding captured enemies, this could be useful in the future as human populations increase and crime starts to be a concern. She may call on you to return the favour at some point in the future.
    [ ] CELLS: Use your authority to get the most skilled Dwarven stoneworkers working on a dungeon just for you.
    This will excavate two rooms under your quarters and convert one into a prison at no cost to yourself, but Eight Peaks will need to see some benefit from at least one of these prisoners, or your reputation will suffer.

    ---

    To your surprise and concern, King Belegar made no ceremony of the third sapphire added to his crown; it simply appeared between one day and the next. Despite this, morale at Eight Peaks couldn't be higher, as the Dwarves both local and of Karak Azul take this as proof that the Expedition's success was no fluke, but the start of the new trend that will see the remaining five peaks return to Dwarven control within their lifetimes. You receive a few back-pats yourself, though all for the one semi-competent Warboss you slew in front of everyone and none for all the much more dangerous ones that died without an appreciative audience. The mercenaries were well paid out of Belegar's dwindling stockpile of silver, but many linger instead of returning to the Border Princes, and the silver pours right back into Karag Nar. It seems Princess Edda hasn't had much to do with it, and the EIC was quite happy to step into that vacuum and open up taverns, inns, eateries, and long-term accommodations. The EIC scrupulously pays every ounce of taxes due to Eight Peaks, but the entire profit instead of a taxed portion of it could have been flowing into the Royal Treasury. Though the missed opportunity is to your profit, you're not exactly pleased at what might be the first crack in the multi-species experiment.

    [+4 Dwarf Favour for Warboss slain in combat]
    [Loremaster Compatibility: 68.]
    [Loremaster Education: 13.]

    You manage to tear yourself away from other people's jobs to pay some attention to your own; even though King Belegar gave you the unofficial task of doling out copious violence in Sylvania, your official task was the education and edification of the We, and you carefully considering the mixed news in the reports. Sjeåth seems to have gotten on quite well with the We, finding them as fascinating as they find him interesting, but he hasn't been able to translate Dwarven education techniques into something digestible to the We's alien mindset. He'll be sticking around a while longer to finish writing up what he's learned in the hopes that it might help deepen understanding of bees, but there's no denying he's failed in his task. Not a huge problem, as it was expected it would take some time and a few different approaches until you would find one that fit, but you're not pleased to be reporting failure.

    However, with Karag Nar secured, your underground fronts are all against the incredibly occupied Clan Mors and the overground front is a deathtrap that artillerists, pilots, and Maximilian alike all dearly hope an enemy proves foolish enough to try. Though it could change in a moment if the wars underground swing against Clan Mors, until and unless that happens, Eight Peaks is in a position of security that could scarcely be dreamed about during the Expedition. Now is the time to look beyond the immediate fires and start long-term projects for the permanent betterment of Eight Peaks, and possibly beyond.


    You can put forward any number of these suggestions, but the more suggestions you make, the less control you have over what Belegar might pick. He may also put forward a plan of his own, if he thinks it particularly important.

    [ ] PROJECT: Aethyric Vitae
    You're reasonably confident that the magical energies Aethyric Vitae can be made to release could fuel powerful runecraft.
    [ ] PROJECT: Queekish
    Being able to translate Queekish would be a boon for not just the Dwarves, but for all enemies of the Skaven.
    [ ] PROJECT: Moulder Mysteries
    Though they've been wiped from Eight Peaks, whatever it was Moulder was up to is certainly worrying. Chaos Dwarf anatomy? Druchii involvement? Perhaps this merits intensive investigation.
    [ ] PROJECT: Burning Shadows
    Weaponizing Karag Nar's shadow could add significantly to the security of the East Gate and the Citadel.
    [ ] PROJECT: Undumgi
    It's definitely not under the Court Wizard's umbrella, but Princess Edda is leaving money on the table by not involving herself in the Undumgi. A temporary intercession by yourself could set them up so they'd be able to function independently.
    [ ] PROJECT: Cartographer
    Your maps have made significant differences to several battles now. You could map the entirety of Karak Eight Peaks, and enchant a map room so that it would forever display your findings, and could be updated as needed.
    [ ] PROJECT: Kvinn-Wyr
    Kvinn-Wyr is a strategic boon, but it still needs to be retaken at some point. Perhaps a magical approach is the way to do so.
    [ ] PROJECT: We
    Though throwing different teachers at them until one sticks isn't the worst approach, perhaps you should give the matter your full and personal attention and get it done.
    [ ] PROJECT: Defence
    Though Clan Mors is unlikely to attack, Skaven are never entirely predictable and they might not remain your neighbours on all fronts. Magic might be able to amplify the underground defences, both your own and that of other Colleges.
    [ ] PROJECT: Offence
    With the Battle Wizards unleashed in Sylvania, they can't currently be sought for intervention in Eight Peaks.

    ---

    There's also the matter of the third addition to your Penthouse, and the purpose to which it will be put, as well as any other acquisitions you might be making.

    [ ] Tower of Dawn and Dusk - with ritual and material and expert consultation, make your Tower like a tuning fork for Ulgu. Bonus to enchantment, rituals, spell learning, spell making, and power stone creation within the tower. 250gc, 5 College favours.
    [ ] Tower of Oh Dear - with a series of very prominent buttons easily accessible from anywhere in the room, be able to drain all magical energies in three heartbeats. Near-complete immunity to miscasts and any other conceivable magical threat. 200gc, 3 College favours, 3 Dwarf favours.
    [ ] Tower of the Burning Shadow - to your sorrow, Burning Shadows cannot be cast on a mountain. To your delight, there's a way around that. There may not be a practical purpose to this, but deep in your soul you know you want to turn the entire shadow of Karag Nar into acid. 150gc, 4 College favours.

    [ ] [LIBRARY] No purchase.
    [ ] [LIBRARY] Write-in.

    [ ] [DWARF] No purchase.
    [ ] [DWARF] Write-in.

    [ ] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
    [ ] [COLLEGE] Write-in.

    [ ] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
    [ ] [PURCHASE] Write-in.



    - I've changed the 'Rune' and 'Enchantment' purchase votes to more general-purpose expenditures of Dwarf or College favour. These can also be made by write-ins in the turn votes, but not all would be associated with a single given action. The Collection of Important Information threadmark has a list of prices for either; if something isn't covered there, ask me. Keep in mind that most 'ask X to help with Y' plans can be covered by the Dwarven expert consultation or the College Journeyman/Magister/Lord Magister consultation scales.
    - The 'keep him primarily' options for your captives will influence the options available when dealing with the captive; consider it a way to communicate to me, the writer, what your intentions are, should you be keeping him.
    - There is a four hour voting moratorium. The Project vote and only the Project vote will be in Plan Format, as the number of suggestions is as important as the suggestions themselves. Remember to keep all votes you make in the same post.
    - Keep in mind that while suggesting a project will let you dedicate your on-the-clock time to it and funnel the resources of the Karak into it, saving you money and Favour, it does mean that the rewards you might receive for it will be lessened, as part of the credit would go to King Belegar and Karak Eight Peaks.
    - Projects are expected to take one year / two turns minimum, and taking longer than that will be alright if you can show tangible progress or give acceptable explanations for failure. If you've an idea for a Project, suggest it and I may add it to the list.
    - This does look like a lot of things to throw at you at once, but the Elf/Skaven decisions have been fairly well discussed previously, the purchases are an established mechanic, and the Projects are pretty self-explanatory, so I'm hoping it works out.
     
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    • If I may ask @BoneyM , related ot what @Thor's Twin brought up, in your opinion if Belegar had been more traditional would it have required a certain degree of actual, fallible persuasion even if we had the same level of trust, hypothetically?
    Garlak said:
    So... How soon can we drive Clan Mors out of Karagril?

    Yes, yes, I know, I know. They're there to soak up Red Fang orcs, and to over-extend Mors.

    But what kind of timeline are we looking at here, for Clan Angrund gaining control over all of Karagril? Were our rough plans or strategic estimates that we'd take a few other areas first, with under-Karagril coming in considerably later?

    Is it possible for us to just wait until the Red Fang's enthusiasm peters out a bit, and then drive Mors out and take over ourselves?


    Question, how doable is it to block off underway passages? If we take an area that has an underway connection, are we stuck with having it? Or, is it possible for us to, say, seal off the Karagril-Karak Drazh underway passage for a while? (Assuming we had the military forces to hold off the orcs of course. I'm asking about the engineering viability of this. I'm feeling like the answer is no, otherwise we would do this for more of the underway, but...)

    EDIT:
    Also yes, I myself wasn't sure whether the Princess Edda getting 'Traditionalist' trait was a new thing or not. Having another person point it out though, makes me think that it was indeed a change. Can anybody else confirm or deny this?
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    The trait is not new actually. The "neglect" of the Umdumgi in it is.
     
    Garlak said:
    So... How soon can we drive Clan Mors out of Karagril?

    Yes, yes, I know, I know. They're there to soak up Red Fang orcs, and to over-extend Mors.

    But what kind of timeline are we looking at here, for Clan Angrund gaining control over all of Karagril? Were our rough plans or strategic estimates that we'd take a few other areas first, with under-Karagril coming in considerably later?

    Is it possible for us to just wait until the Red Fang's enthusiasm peters out a bit, and then drive Mors out and take over ourselves?


    Question, how doable is it to block off underway passages? If we take an area that has an underway connection, are we stuck with having it? Or, is it possible for us to, say, seal off the Karagril-Karak Drazh underway passage for a while? (Assuming we had the military forces to hold off the orcs of course. I'm asking about the engineering viability of this. I'm feeling like the answer is no, otherwise we would do this for more of the underway, but...)

    EDIT:
    Also yes, I myself wasn't sure whether the Princess Edda getting 'Traditionalist' trait was a new thing or not. Having another person point it out though, makes me think that it was indeed a change. Can anybody else confirm or deny this?
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    Clan Mors is the least dangerous of the lot. Leave them to plug the orcs up while we sweep the other peaks, we want either Skyre or Eshin(preferably Eshin by geography) removed from the picture before we push Mors out of the Caldera, and we want to control a majority of the under-Caldera connections before we do that or we'd be defeated in detail

    Also underway passages are enormous. Collapsing one is liable to take enough damage to produce Karak Seven And Three Quarters Peaks

    Edda is a known trait, we didn't know her well enough for it to be a formal charsheet thing yet.
     
    EVA-Saiyajin said:
    If I may ask @BoneyM , related ot what @Thor's Twin brought up, in your opinion if Belegar had been more traditional would it have required a certain degree of actual, fallible persuasion even if we had the same level of trust, hypothetically?
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    If he'd been more traditional, there would be hard limits in what he'd be willing to do, even for the best of reasons. Traditional, to Dwarves, means being willing to choose extinction over pragmatism.

    veekie said:
    Edda is a known trait, we didn't know her well enough for it to be a formal charsheet thing yet.
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    It was part of her personality, but there was a chance of it not becoming part of her being Steward.
     
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    BoneyM said:
    [ ] ELF: Extradite him to Ulthuan.
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    BoneyM said:
    [ ] SKAVEN: Keep him...
    - [ ] primarily as a source to learn Queekish.
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    BoneyM said:
    [ ] CELLS: Use your authority to get the most skilled Dwarven stoneworkers working on a dungeon just for you.
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    BoneyM said:
    [ ] PROJECT: Queekish
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    I think these fit together fairly well. Elf has been discussed. We can get Queekish as a project from Belegar, use the Skaven for Queekish and get the dungeon built up as well. Thoughts?
     
    BoneyM said:
    You can put forward any number of these suggestions, but the more suggestions you make, the less control you have over what Belegar might pick. He may also put forward a plan of his own, if he thinks it particularly important.
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    How many can we expect Belegar to pick? Just the one?

    Edit- Yep, the elf has been discussed, and I still think we should interrogate.
     
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    [] ELF: Extradite him to Ulthuan.
    [] SKAVEN: Keep him...
    - [] primarily as a source to learn Queekish.

    [] CELLS: They'll be fine where they are.

    [] Provisional plan
    -[] PROJECT: Aethyric Vitae
    You're reasonably confident that the magical energies Aethyric Vitae can be made to release could fuel powerful runecraft.
    -[] PROJECT: Queekish
    Being able to translate Queekish would be a boon for not just the Dwarves, but for all enemies of the Skaven.
    -[ ] PROJECT: Cartographer
    Your maps have made significant differences to several battles now. You could map the entirety of Karak Eight Peaks, and enchant a map room so that it would forever display your findings, and could be updated as needed.
    -[ ] PROJECT: Burning Shadows
    Weaponizing Karag Nar's shadow could add significantly to the security of the East Gate and the Citadel.


    [] Tower of Oh Dear - with a series of very prominent buttons easily accessible from anywhere in the room, be able to drain all magical energies in three heartbeats. Near-complete immunity to miscasts and any other conceivable magical threat. 200gc, 3 College favours, 3 Dwarf favours.

    I'm tempted by getting the dwarves to build a prison cell for us with the intention of funnelling info to the dwarves and learning queekish would be a big boon to even the dwarves.

    I think all of these options are worthwhile to explore. Cartographer gives us a job related task to expand our enchanting skills plenty of future utility and it's useful for the dawi. Burning shadows means we can get K8P resources to build the tower. Queekish is beyond obvious and getting Aethyric vitae on our potential baliwick means we're doing favoured research on company time.
     
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    So, for long term projects, I think we need Queekish.

    Given that, and the need to support Belegar, the elf has to go to Ulthuan now. We have even less time to deal with him than we thought.
     
    Thanks.
    BoneyM said:
    [ ] PROJECT: Aethyric Vitae
    You're reasonably confident that the magical energies Aethyric Vitae can be made to release could fuel powerful runecraft.
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    This being our Official Task would likely make it easier to get Runelord collaboration.

    We, presumably, want to do both this and Queekish- so it's a question of where it being our Official Duties will help the most.

    Tower of Burning Shadows doesn't cost an action, so I'm disinclined to pick it for that reason, when we've got the above two.
     
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    - Keep in mind that while suggesting a project will let you dedicate your on-the-clock time to it and funnel the resources of the Karak into it, saving you money and Favour, it does mean that the rewards you might receive for it will be lessened, as part of the credit would go to King Belegar and Karak Eight Peaks.
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    Yeah, I'd say Queekish is worthwhile for this. And I think it should be the ONLY one suggested @SuperSonicSound , as its the closest we can get to guaranteeing it and (hopefully) insuring we have a free action to help Belegar.

    You can put forward any number of these suggestions, but the more suggestions you make, the less control you have over what Belegar might pick. He may also put forward a plan of his own, if he thinks it particularly important.
    Click to expand...
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    Keep in mind that AP don't have inherent healing properties. Mathilde isn't a therapist and though she can listen to his problems, that doesn't solve the underlying problem of having to choose between Dwarven values or continued Dwarven survival.
     
    Still thinking on the choices, but on [CELLS] do not go for the dungeon option. We should offer to take over for the Umdungi, since the steward isn't doing it. We have the position with the EIC and the Best Dwarven Practices already put into it, along with Patriot. This would be the part where had we voted to keep directing the EIC as a economic power, we could step in more easily, but oh well.

    On the cells, don't go dungeon. Human criminals should be censured and fined for minor crimes, and exiled/banished for major ones. That dwarves will understand, having human criminals rot in their jails will not go over well with dwarves. Besides, being part of a multi-species experiment is a privilege, not a right. Don't fuck it up for everyone.

    Provisional project list is something like:
    [ ] PROJECT: Undumgi
    [ ] PROJECT: We
    with maybe Vitae and Queekish on top. I think it might be better to do Vitae ourselves though. The burning shadow thing might make the East gate and citadel safer, if the enemy doesn't know about it. Still no clue what might come in from the wastes.

    Elf to grey to interrogate, skaven to learn tongue.
    We could just built the tower of burning shadow, and not do it on Belegars time. That seems best for defense, instead of presenting it as a task.
    BoneyM said:
    Keep in mind that AP don't have inherent healing properties. Mathilde isn't a therapist and though she can listen to his problems, that doesn't solve the underlying problem of having to choose between Dwarven values or continued Dwarven survival.
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    This. Also, diplo is our worst stat. Though the high piety might help. Even just being there for him might be helpful, but how much? God knows.
     
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    BoneyM said:
    [ ] CELLS: Use your authority to get the most skilled Dwarven stoneworkers working on a dungeon just for you.
    This will excavate two rooms under your quarters and convert one into a prison at no cost to yourself, but Eight Peaks will need to see some benefit from at least one of these prisoners, or your reputation will suffer.
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    @BoneyM

    Clarification request, this is specifically only for the current prisoners right?
    As in, we'd need to keep at least one of them and interrogate them for Eight Peaks purposes, which would include these options:
    [ ] ELF: Keep him...
    - [ ] primarily for the strategic intelligence he could provide.
    - [ ] primarily as a source of information about Clan Moulder.

    [ ] SKAVEN: Keep him...
    - [ ] primarily for the strategic intelligence he could provide.
    - [ ] primarily as a source of information on the Skaven.
    - [ ] primarily as a source to learn Queekish.

    And presumably not taking any of these would count as abuse of power?
    Also a question, what kind of security would such a prison encompass? Sufficient to leave it unattended for potentially days?
     
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