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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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We should probably weigh our next decisions so we do ´t actually ruin the poor guy as a dwarf. Ship might have sailed a bit on that but we can stop adding to the load at least.
 
If some other important dwarf group notices the significant and "non-dwarf" changes to Belegar's personality, I wonder if they'll suspect his influential human spy advisor of manipulating him deliberately?
 
pucflek said:
We should probably weigh our next decisions so we do ´t actually ruin the poor guy as a dwarf. Ship might have sailed a bit on that but we can stop adding to the load at least.
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The shitty thing is that him being less traditionally dwarfy maybe the best means of retaking the Eight Peaks and pulling their species from its death spiral.

But yeah...this is not good for him.

There's gotta be a balance between "ancestors good, but they'd have fucking hated us having the initative of a bowl of prunes."

Cause you know...first virtue is winnin.
 
Oh, and that's not the only change to the page:
BoneyM said:
Princess Edda Grimbrow, Steward of Karak Eight Peaks

> Karak Izor has close ties with the Empire, but it seems being royalty insulated Princess Edda from a lot of that. She's formidably efficient in her comfort zones, but still getting used to the world outside Karak Izor.
< You've been somewhere between friends and acquaintances with her since near the beginning of the Expedition. She likes you, but she's yet to become fully comfortable with non-Dwarves.

Adult: Having passed the age of 30, this Dwarf is considered an adult and ready to begin studying their trade in earnest.
Ambitious: Edda has her sights set on becoming a Queen.
Clan Grimbrow: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Karak Izor.
Organized: Edda is extremely efficient at establishing, controlling, and keeping track of large projects.
Traditionalist: Despite having technical authority over the Undumgi, Edda focuses on the traditional Dwarven guilds.
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BoneyM said:
Francesco Caravello, Leader of the Undumgi

EIC Asset: Either openly or otherwise, this person is aligned with the Eastern Imperial Company.
Trader: Francesco once plied the trade routes of the Old World, and knows the business inside and out.
Well-Connected: Francesco's good reputation among traders and mercenaries alike stretches from Barak Varr to Tobaro.
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Edda has the Traditionalist trait, which indicates she has control over the Undumgi but still prefers the guilds. there is also aprofile for Franseco that shows relations with the EIC...
 
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BoneyM said:
Quite likely.
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I've said before but I have to reiterate this is an amazing quest and you are doing a great job as GM. I love the fact that we have such a wealth of options and possibilities for Mathildes social circle. I am as much emotionally invested in this quest as the first time I read Lord of the Rings when I was 12 years old and I followed Frodos quest to destroy the Ring.

Thank you @BoneyM
 
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Doomed Wombat said:
But yeah...this is not good for him.

There's gotta be a balance between "ancestors good, but they'd have fucking hated us having the initative of a bowl of prunes."
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Its good for retaking the Karak, but i think its gonna be shit for reconnecting it properly into Karaz Ankor. On top of being really shitty for psyche of any one dawi.
 
I think we've had too much influence on Belegar. He's seen our methods work out so often that he wants to emulate them, but he's not a grey mage, or even human. He's not at all prepared to think and behave like we do. We need to either temper his admiration of us, or help him incorporate these new ideas into a more typical dwarven philosophy. And I think it'd be best if we left that to another dwarf, because I really do think he respects Mathilde to an unhealthy extent. Mayber Gunnars would be a good choice. We know Belegar trusts him, and he is a priest, so he should be suited to this sort of challenge.
 
pucflek said:
Its good for retaking the Karak, but i think its gonna be shit for reconnecting it properly into Karaz Ankor. On top of being really shitty for psyche of any one dawi.
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Its likely shitty for connecting with Karaz a Karak and anywhere conservative certainly.


St0rmweaver said:
Neglecting the Undumgi? I feel that this trait does not bring good tidings.
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Hopefully it means leaving them to their own devices...which also isn't great.
 
pucflek said:
Its good for retaking the Karak, but i think its gonna be shit for reconnecting it properly into Karaz Ankor. On top of being really shitty for psyche of any one dawi.
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Victory needs no apologies, especially if you can lie about the more questionable parts, like his reasoning for attacking Moulder. Keep in mind Realpolitik made his diplomacy as well as his intrigue go up. Lying well is a valid path to diplomatic success. The trouble is Belegar himself making peace with it on a personal level.
 
mmm I dunno how traditional he is, but I think Belegar needs a peer and someone cool to talk to so he can work this out someone who has more of an understanding of the burden of leadership on this scale.

And for that I recommend the axe butterfly of legend.

So far Kazador's been the only consistently happy dwarf and is Belegar's main brother in crowns at this stage.

Frankly I think most of the Karaz Ankor could learn from his example, BE HAPPY YOU BEARED BASTARDS!
 
LeMat said:
Mayber Gunnars would be a good choice. We know Belegar trusts him, and he is a priest, so he should be suited to this sort of challenge.
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Gunnars also is one of the few dwarves who use swords.
and our conversation with him during sword training showed he isn't quite traditional either.
he explained quite well how dwarves hinder progress and why.
 
Belegar needs to find a way to accept what he's doing or square his approach with idea of how his culture venerates their ancestors. I'm tempted to persue the line of thought that a tradition has to start some where but that's pretty hard for a dwarf to accept it's sort of baked in at this point that there aren't new lines of thought that are acceptable merely novel ways of using old thought, technique and learning.
 
If his Piety falls enough to make him doubt the Ancestors and Dwarven ways, is there a chance for him to go Slayer?
 
LeMat said:
I think we've had too much influence on Belegar. He's seen our methods work out so often that he wants to emulate them, but he's not a grey mage, or even human. He's not at all prepared to think and behave like we do. We need to either temper his admiration of us, or help him incorporate these new ideas into a more typical dwarven philosophy. And I think it'd be best if we left that to another dwarf, because I really do think he respects Mathilde to an unhealthy extent. Mayber Gunnars would be a good choice. We know Belegar trusts him, and he is a priest, so he should be suited to this sort of challenge.
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I'm thinking of Launy, the barazul back from this update, and wondering if that is basically the kind of person we need. That profession is basically "talk to dwarfs under incredibly high amounts of emotional stress, and help them navigate through their feelings in a way that avoids their breaking". Tying it into oaths is because that's the source of stress that causes dwarfs to break and become slayers most often, I think, but the real cause of becoming a slayer isn't the oaths- it's the mental strain.

Belegar basically needs someone who can help him mentally reconcile what he's done, and either guide him to a place where he can feel that his actions are justified and balanced with his gods or discover that he won't be able to do so and gently guide him back to a path which is traditional enough that he can live with himself in the long term.

Admittedly, it might not work out. And Belegar isn't going to be inclined to bare his feelings to someone he doesn't know. But maybe Mathilde could seek out someone of the profession for advice on how to approach him?


TimEd said:
If his Piety falls enough to make him doubt the Ancestors and Dwarven ways, is there a chance for him to go Slayer?
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Even if not slayer as such, dwarf mindsets are strong but very rigid, and Belegar's been trying to make his bend pretty hard. When placed under enough strain they tend to catastrophically break before they bend. So... something like that, even if he isn't willing to fit into that particular part of the cultural matrix. Calamity is in the cards here, at any rate.
 
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TimEd said:
If his Piety falls enough to make him doubt the Ancestors and Dwarven ways, is there a chance for him to go Slayer?
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I doubt it, becoming a slayer if dishonored is part of those traditions after all, the part that is most opposed by his new way of doing things. It's high piety characters who perceive themselves as having done something dishonorable who are under risk of Slayer-hood.
 
I forgot where i saw it, but i think i once read a blurb where significant breaches against dwarfhood actually attracted divine retribution? Is that like, a thing for dawi?

DragonParadox said:
I doubt it, becoming a slayer if dishonored is part of those traditions after all, the part that is most opposed by his new way of doing things. It's high piety characters who perceive themselves as having done something dishonorable who are under risk of Slayer-hood.
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I actually think he would do it and see it as penitence. Once the K8P is retaken anyway.
 
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pucflek said:
I forgot where i saw it, but i think i once read a blurb where significant breaches against dwarfhood actually attracted divine retribution? Is that like, a thing for dawi?
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The Ancestor gods don't really act directly to influence the world, they're more the rock of faith that dwarven society revolves around. There's no spell casting priests in the vane of what human religions in warhammer have. It's either runic enchantment or bust.
 
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