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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Shard said:
My view is not that Mathilde lack capability, she lacks time. In fact, I think Mathilde should attempt specialization, sacrificing overall capabilities in favor of extreme competence in a narrow field. (example: Research, Assassination)
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Ok, but I was addressing the allegations that Mathilde lacks capability.
 
B_omega said:
Well regarding the sword , i can think of throwing the sword then summon it back to us in a Thors hammer way.

Which is utterly nuts to be done with a greatsword, or any sword for that matter.

The use of mundane tools is more for opening moves, that instead of using Branulhune from the begining to kill the target, you prep the ground first by burning or blinding them, before using the blade.

It can cut through everything, but perhaps if we take a stepback, there are other ways to kill a target from a distance, and we can haul ass afterwards in a slow stealthy manner. As in throw grenade, sneak away.

Branulhune is a legendary tier weapon, one that might take her lifetime to master and fully use.

But Mathilda's use of it right now reminds me of the diablo's assasin class where we can solo'ed the bosses with no problem but usually killed if we got surrounded.

If you want something that can compliment its (Branulhune) use, then a pair of enhanted boots to speed up her running and a silken-undershirt might be a good start.
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The Rune of the Unknown teleports it back to our hand as far as I'm aware.

If this is in the context of an assassination then you don't want to be prepping for it by lobbing an explosion which will likely as not do less damage than Branulhune into the mix and alert the target. You want to be prepping it by placing explosives in the building they're going into and then blowing it up into rubble, which is largely relevant because its stupendous enough to outshine Branulhune when it goes off, like Bound Battle Magic. Or poison gas in a room we won't be entering under any circumstance. Or poisoning their food or water, which we have the skills to pull off in the Imperial Palace. Etc etc.

Grenades are not as sure a kill as Branulhune, even against more physically fragile high value targets like Skaven Lords due to the circumstances physically fragile high value targets use to defend themselves.

Enchanted boots and silken undershirt would be a better choice, and silk robes have been brought up multiple times as an excellent basis for upgraded enchanted robes. (Even if they don't actually help us sword better, they do mean we live longer)
 
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So, I was doing some reading on wolf-rats. The pups Johann found aren't acting normal. They're described as "inquisitive and playful", which isn't something usually attributed to them. And supposedly they can't be tamed. You guys think that the pups have been altered to make them more tractable?
 
TempestK said:
So, I was doing some reading on wolf-rats. The pups Johann found aren't acting normal. They're described as "inquisitive and playful", which isn't something usually attributed to them. And supposedly they can't be tamed. You guys think that the pups have been altered to make them more tractable?
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I think I saw somebody else suggest that that might have just been because Skaven are universally terrible, and thus mistreated their poor rat-doggos? Their models also have scabs and wounds and stuff, too, but I don't see how they'd acquire them without being mistreated; they're prone to mutation too, apparently, but in the sorts of places Skaven live in, with the sorts of things they carry around, so are normal humans.

Really, with that interpretation, a lot of the conditions of Skaven units might conceivably be attributed not to natural degeneration, but just to horrible treatment and living in an environment where warpstone is simultaneously money, food, and drugs.
 
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chocolote12 said:
I think I saw somebody else suggest that that might have just been because Skaven are universally terrible, and thus mistreated their poor rat-doggos? Their models also have scabs and wounds and stuff, too, but I don't see how they'd acquire them without being mistreated; they're prone to mutation too, apparently, but in the sorts of places Skaven live in, with the sorts of things they carry around, so are normal humans.

Really, with that interpretation, a lot of the conditions of Skaven units might conceivably be attributed not to natural degeneration, but just to horrible treatment and living in an environment where warpstone is simultaneously money, food, and drugs.
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I mean both wolves and rats in real life are fairly social creatures, and actual rats are among the few species with a confirmed sense of altruism.

The Skaven are just terrible because the Horned Rat is committed to being as evil as possible and thus decided to waste that potential the moment he made the species.

Heh I actually remember people back in an old quest wondering how much of the Hydras so monumentally agressive/stupid is because the Dark Elves are the only ones that tame em so the ones we see in cannon have almost certainly had to replace a few heads and thus a few brains because destruction factions default to abuse when it comes to monsters of any kind.
 
The Skaven's behavior actually mirrors pretty closely the kind of societal collapse you see in real life rats under extreme overpopulation conditions. The Horned Rat may be part of the issue, but psychology undoubtedly plays a role.

So I could definitely see wolf rats reciprocating love and affection if treated humanely.
 
Skaven act like real world rats as much as Gors act like real world goats. In Malus, I suspect that the whole "warp responds to thoughts of mortals" bleeds in, and the expectations of humans regarding rats and woodland creatures factor into things.
 
So, to be clear, we are at that position where we are willing to trade 1000 gold coins, for a book? Wow. I guess we do have a big library and lots of towers, but that 1000 gold might help us build our new college, you know? That's something like 20 000 Empire sliver.
 
primemountain said:
So, to be clear, we are at that position where we are willing to trade 1000 gold coins, for a book? Wow. I guess we do have a big library and lots of towers, but that 1000 gold might help us build our new college, you know? That's something like 20 000 Empire sliver.
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If we wanted 1000 gold it wouldn't even take that long off our passive income dude.
The book has genuine value to us. The gold is yet another explanation to the Bursar and then another spending spree to convert it to the kinds of wealth we're allowed to keep(Books, mostly). Keeping gold around for an undefined rainy day is the sort of thing the Grey Order looks more closely on, especially when you already have enough gold to hire a private army for a year.
 
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primemountain said:
So, to be clear, we are at that position where we are willing to trade 1000 gold coins, for a book? Wow. I guess we do have a big library and lots of towers, but that 1000 gold might help us build our new college, you know? That's something like 20 000 Empire sliver.
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If your talking about the chaos dwarf book it will be a great help in creating a queekish lexicon. We are basically trading 1000 gold coins for a rosetta stone. Seems like a pretty fair deal to me.
 
primemountain said:
So, to be clear, we are at that position where we are willing to trade 1000 gold coins, for a book? Wow. I guess we do have a big library and lots of towers, but that 1000 gold might help us build our new college, you know? That's something like 20 000 Empire sliver.
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Rose gold. Only 75% real gold.

Although yes, 750gc is a lot, and I think people's aversion to gold rewards is silly. But at the same time, it's not like you can just find a super-detailed anatomical text on Chaos dwarfs and one half of a Queekish learning aid in the market stalls of Barak Varr.
 
veekie said:
especially when you already have enough gold to hire a private army for a year.
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People keep saying this, but while it's true it would also be a very small private army. Most of our estimates and analysis have put the annual pay (or at least cost of supporting, which is functionally equivalent to pay for our purposes here) for a basic human soldier at 10g minimum, with elite/specialist/well-equipped units rising in cost drastically from there. And we've currently got ~4000g, if I have the conversions right.

So sure, Mathilde can support a 400-man army for a year, assuming that they're hired fully equipped and don't need any exceptional costs or support units. But based on the size of the forces that we've seen fielded by just about every faction, 400 troops is more sized as a specialist force than an actual army, as that number of line troops would mostly be a speedbump in any serious conflict. Even at her peak personal wealth, Mathilde couldn't have fielded more than a couple thousand basic troops- meaningful but not decisive numbers.

Given the shenanigans that Mathilde pulls on a regular basis, I'd go so far as to say that her personally showing up is worth more than the largest army she has ever been able to afford showing up, in every situation that she might bother showing up with an army for.
 
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Guile said:
Rose gold. Only 75% real gold.

Although yes, 750gc is a lot, and I think people's aversion to gold rewards is silly. But at the same time, it's not like you can just find a super-detailed anatomical text on Chaos dwarfs and one half of a Queekish learning aid in the market stalls of Barak Varr.
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The real contender for the gold wasn't the book, it was reminding Johann that we are his boss, which we are.
People saw it as a break of etiquette, but we have more work and more responsibilities, and thus our time is more valuable, not only that but a lot of our resources end up with them in the form of access to book and the towers, i would have gladly voted for taking the gold if it had a chance of winning.
 
primemountain said:
So, to be clear, we are at that position where we are willing to trade 1000 gold coins, for a book? Wow. I guess we do have a big library and lots of towers, but that 1000 gold might help us build our new college, you know? That's something like 20 000 Empire sliver.
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I prefer to think of the book as potentially 35 favor between the Dwarves and the College.
 
BungieONI said:
The Rune of the Unknown teleports it back to our hand as far as I'm aware.

If this is in the context of an assassination then you don't want to be prepping for it by lobbing an explosion which will likely as not do less damage than Branulhune into the mix and alert the target. You want to be prepping it by placing explosives in the building they're going into and then blowing it up into rubble, which is largely relevant because its stupendous enough to outshine Branulhune when it goes off, like Bound Battle Magic. Or poison gas in a room we won't be entering under any circumstance. Or poisoning their food or water, which we have the skills to pull off in the Imperial Palace. Etc etc.

Grenades are not as sure a kill as Branulhune, even against more physically fragile high value targets like Skaven Lords due to the circumstances physically fragile high value targets use to defend themselves.

Enchanted boots and silken undershirt would be a better choice, and silk robes have been brought up multiple times as an excellent basis for upgraded enchanted robes. (Even if they don't actually help us sword better, they do mean we live longer)
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Then another thing is to use shadow-telekinesis to hold the sword and use it god of war style. maybe even get a second sword for that and hold the one you get.
 
Gnnrgh, I just realized that learning Queekish would mean that in the future, we'd also be raiding the Skaven's library books.

Meaning, our Library would expand to have Skaven books, too. Not just Imperial and Dwarf, but Skaven. We could be seeing +1s and +2s start showing up in more categories. Or perhaps an ability to build up 'Obscure' books on Skaven, due to having Skaven material.

We're gonna want to translate those, of course. If for no other reason than because we'd be the only person around who could read Queekish, and this would be completely heretofore unknown data. So we'd want to be able to make that useable for our fellows, too. (And also, having books in Imperial rather than Queekish -- or at least, like, Imperial but encoded by a Grey Order encryption -- would be easier to reference and use.) But we'd end up with possibly the only known human library that has material and data from Skaven, too. ... ... We'd probably want to keep the Skaven books just a wee bit more secure though. Both the translated and originals.

But yeah. The Colleges are really going to want some of that.


Speaking of book purchases though... How would people feel about shelling out for an Esoteric book on Sevir or Aethyr? Since if we're doing materials research into stuff like that, it might be neat.

More relevantly though, I have a suggestion; more Bretonnian books. Especially on magic, and divine magic.

Divine Magic, Aethyr, Sevir definitely. The Lady herself, if possible.

Skaven Magic and Waagh Magic if possible. Maybe Skaven in general, too.

Especially the Divine Magic and magic in general, though. We talk about theurgy and stuff a lot, right? Well, what better (closeby) source than Bretonnian Damsels? So buy books on gods and magic and the Lady, if possible.

In fact, it might be worth it to double up on Winds we already have... and get Bretonnian books on Ghyran, Ghur, and Azyr -- because those are the three Lores that we most associate with Damsels. Mmmaybe ask around if there are any Bretonnian books oh Qhaysh as well. If nothing else, if they exist, they might tell us if the Fay Enchantress knows anything about that.

But potentially books on High Elves, too. The Bretonnians built their kingdom all over Elf ruins, right? They might have material on Ulthuan that the Empire might lack. (Admittedly, probably more books on Ancient Ulthuan Architecture, but... Might be something, yeah?) They've also lived right next to Athel Loren of course, but I don't know if we'd care to get books on the Asrai.

In fact, get Imperial books on Ulthuan, too. We currently only have Dwarf books on Ulthuan. And we're about to deal with Ulthuan the coming turn, right? We probably don't want to have just Dwarf books on Elves. Maybe even the Druchii, too, but Ulthuan is definitely the priority/need here.

Are there books on Diplomacy? Or would that fall under culture/nation books in "Civilized Realms"? Would books on negotiation or courtesy or whatever, help with talking to some cultures or people? By which I mean; what even are the relevant topics here? Am I asking for the right thing or what?

(Bringing up our poor Diplomacy itself is somewhere on my wishlist, it's just... AP hell.)

So meanwhile, I'd like to take Mathilde's tendency to prepare for conversations, and grab books on Ulthuan and Diplomacy. So that we'll be more prepared for stuff.
 
Garlak said:
More relevantly though, I have a suggestion; more Bretonnian books. Especially on magic, and divine magic.
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As I understand it we can't purchase Bretonnian books on magical topics via our current bookseller. We would have to spend actual actions hunting down better texts (or employ our thief contacts), and I don't think anyone is willing to do that. We're restricted to the common and extensive rarity levels and mundane topics only.
 
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Garlak said:
Gnnrgh, I just realized that learning Queekish would mean that in the future, we'd also be raiding the Skaven's library books.

Meaning, our Library would expand to have Skaven books, too. Not just Imperial and Dwarf, but Skaven. We could be seeing +1s and +2s start showing up in more categories. Or perhaps an ability to build up 'Obscure' books on Skaven, due to having Skaven material.

We're gonna want to translate those, of course. If for no other reason than because we'd be the only person around who could read Queekish, and this would be completely heretofore unknown data. So we'd want to be able to make that useable for our fellows, too. (And also, having books in Imperial rather than Queekish -- or at least, like, Imperial but encoded by a Grey Order encryption -- would be easier to reference and use.) But we'd end up with possibly the only known human library that has material and data from Skaven, too. ... ... We'd probably want to keep the Skaven books just a wee bit more secure though. Both the translated and originals.

But yeah. The Colleges are really going to want some of that.


Speaking of book purchases though... How would people feel about shelling out for an Esoteric book on Sevir or Aethyr? Since if we're doing materials research into stuff like that, it might be neat.

More relevantly though, I have a suggestion; more Bretonnian books. Especially on magic, and divine magic.

Divine Magic, Aethyr, Sevir definitely. The Lady herself, if possible.

Skaven Magic and Waagh Magic if possible. Maybe Skaven in general, too.

Especially the Divine Magic and magic in general, though. We talk about theurgy and stuff a lot, right? Well, what better (closeby) source than Bretonnian Damsels? So buy books on gods and magic and the Lady, if possible.

In fact, it might be worth it to double up on Winds we already have... and get Bretonnian books on Ghyran, Ghur, and Azyr -- because those are the three Lores that we most associate with Damsels. Mmmaybe ask around if there are any Bretonnian books oh Qhaysh as well. If nothing else, if they exist, they might tell us if the Fay Enchantress knows anything about that.

But potentially books on High Elves, too. The Bretonnians built their kingdom all over Elf ruins, right? They might have material on Ulthuan that the Empire might lack. (Admittedly, probably more books on Ancient Ulthuan Architecture, but... Might be something, yeah?) They've also lived right next to Athel Loren of course, but I don't know if we'd care to get books on the Asrai.

In fact, get Imperial books on Ulthuan, too. We currently only have Dwarf books on Ulthuan. And we're about to deal with Ulthuan the coming turn, right? We probably don't want to have just Dwarf books on Elves. Maybe even the Druchii, too, but Ulthuan is definitely the priority/need here.

Are there books on Diplomacy? Or would that fall under culture/nation books in "Civilized Realms"? Would books on negotiation or courtesy or whatever, help with talking to some cultures or people? By which I mean; what even are the relevant topics here? Am I asking for the right thing or what?

(Bringing up our poor Diplomacy itself is somewhere on my wishlist, it's just... AP hell.)

So meanwhile, I'd like to take Mathilde's tendency to prepare for conversations, and grab books on Ulthuan and Diplomacy. So that we'll be more prepared for stuff.
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I thought the brettonians were taking a pretty hard line against selling their magic books to anyone and that we'd have to acquire them the Ranaldian Way.
 
At this point, I would argue that we should only but the bare minimum of books until the next fish jumps into the boat, we have constant expenses in the form of tower upgrades and we still need the egg nest in case something comes up.
We just took a military action and thus are unlikely to see much loot for at least 2 turns, we got nothing in the way of gold this last 2 (from what I can remember), so even then it is not certain we will get anything, our current rate of expenditure is not sustainable.
We could just go looking for treasure, but people don't even want to interrogate potentially key prisoners, lets not pretend people would vote for [Go look for treasure somewhere]
 
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