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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Treasure Hunt

I admit, the idea of Treasure Hunt appeals to me. As a point of reminder, Johann is tougher than Gromril. He has frankly Ironbreaker levels of endurance and combined with Mathilde's kill power, we're quite basically a good Magister strike force duo. And when it comes to 'what exactly will Mathilde wreck', we have Extensive tiers on Skaven books and Liber Mortis' knowledge how to deal with Skaven, she'll know what to do when the time comes.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
I'm baffled how people are both passing up the chance for extraordinary bonding times with Belebro, and completely cool with having zero chances of healing/ressurecting him.
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Fearmongering and baseless accusation aside, a) that's why we have social turns and b) the world does not revolve around Mathilde having her exceptional healing item. Belegar is a Lord-level combatant, early in his journey as it is, with Martial 20 and surrounded by numerous Hammerer guards around him and everyone is equipped with Runic arms.

Moreover, he's part of the reactive attack force, not the tip of the spear. If even the reactive force is overwhelmed, then we're truly in the darkest 0.01% probability timeline again and trying to safeguard against that is well, I wouldn't say worthless, but at least make it clear you're arguing for that instead of trying to guilt trip your fellow Questers.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
Isn't the purpose of the exercise putting extra pressure on Moulder so that the orcs and Mors work their magic?

Certainly the dwarf forces shouldn't get into a prolonged fight with the Skaven, but from my understanding a prolonged fight with the skaven is not what we voted for last update.
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Essentially, but considering Moulder is beset on all sides, we want to avoid making it too easy for the orcs to roll in. Mors taking it would be best, Moulder keeping it would be tolerable.

Orcs taking it would be a pain in the ass
Neptune said:
Why would it need to be multiple crits? Mockery of Death should make it trivial to live capture, if it's an objective Mathilde wants to pursue.
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We need a Skaven which knows Reikspiel, which isn't a given.
And we need a fight where we have enough advantage to go for Mockery of Death rather than a killshot, which rules out the important Skaven who might actually be literate, as they're unlikely to be undefended.
SuperSonicSound said:
Part of ensuring that clan Mors can hold off Eshin and Skyre is also letting them get access to those resources, if Mors takes the territory with out that then they're likely to pull back to the under caldera and consolidate there leaving the Dwarves or orcs to hold under-Karagril as they'll have no reason to remain. Mors being in a death battle to survive against all comers wont try and hold more territory unless they have a reason to do so.
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Yeah, if Mors gets the breeders they're going to try to hold Under Karagril, otherwise theres no reason for them to stick around. They're already stretched pretty thin.
Alratan said:
One thing to consider is that there may not be any Clan Moulder Rat Mothers here. They live up in Hellpit, just as Clan Skyre lives in Skavenblight.

The four great clans sell their services across the Underempire, but I don't believe they actually have settlements everywhere, they just have outposts/shops in other Clans' territories that they operate from, and vassal warlord clans that serve them.

These could well be purely expeditionary armies dispatched from their core territories, getting reinforced from them via the Underways.
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If they have no breeders then the Skaven attrition is not sustainable. They have at least some locally.
WorldSlayer said:
It's best to have Clan Mors as an underdog though, we don't want them to be too strong. They'll also be losing an enemy with Clan Moulder gone even if they're being replaced with another enemy.

Besides they'll still be getting the food stores and whatever weapons and such they'll be looting in addition to the territory and whatever other assets are lying around.
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The risk is in them realizing that all the loot they have is portable and doesn't need more space than they already have, then pulling out after Moulder is paste.
TotallyNotEvil said:
I'm baffled how people are both passing up the chance for extraordinary bonding times with Belebro, and completely cool with having zero chances of healing/ressurecting him.

[X] Line of Battle
-[X] With King Belegar
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We've been completely cool with it for how many war turns by now? Every single turn to date?

Belegar can take care of himself and is in a unit of Hammerers. We're not making a death or glory push into Skaven territory, but pressuring them so they collapse in a way we prefer.
 
[X] The mercenaries should join the fight against Skaven.
It's rats, who cares! Go kill'em!
[X] Treasure Hunt
Also shinies.

Belegar needs to express more of an interest in our TRAGIC BACKSTORY before I'm interested in hanging with him on the reg. That or like state mandate we hang out with him by locking himself into our social actions haha.
 
Briefvoice said:
Goodness knows there's various reasons for various actions, but I think "We might find something too good and it would increase out backlog!" is a really strange one. If nothing else, anything we find is probably something we can just have Johan look at.

But I have a confession to make. In my secret heart of hearts, what I'm hoping is not for research materials. See, I'm thinking back on the board's other big Warhammer Fantasy CKII quest. Very recently torroar did an interlude in his quest where dwarves attacking a skaven settlement stopped to rescue a bunch of skaven prisoners. That's been sticking in my mind.

Clan Moulder is the clan of biological experimentation. A little part of me is hoping that in our treasure hunt, we might just run into an opportunity to bust loose one of their test subjects and save a life that was expecting nothing but a future of madness and torture. Maybe it's dumb I know, but that's what a part of me is hoping to get from "Treasure Hunt". Now go ahead and sneer and make me feel bad for wanting that.
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If we're on a Sabotage run I don't think we're going to blow up slaves if we run into them.

Where would they even get human or dwarf slaves for us to free? They've been in a three-way fight with Mors and Greenskins for years.
 
Guile said:
If we're on a Sabotage run I don't think we're going to blow up slaves if we run into them.

Where would they even get human or dwarf slaves for us to free? They've been in a three-way fight with Mors and Greenskins for years.
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He's talking about Skaven slaves. Which is probably why he included the, "Sneer and make me feel bad for wanting that."
 
Vocalend said:
Fearmongering and baseless accusation aside, a) that's why we have social turns and b) the world does not revolve around Mathilde having her exceptional healing item. Belegar is a Lord-level combatant, early in his journey as it is, with Martial 20 and surrounded by numerous Hammerer guards around him and everyone is equipped with Runic arms.

Moreover, he's part of the reactive attack force, not the tip of the spear. If even the reactive force is overwhelmed, then we're truly in the darkest 0.01% probability timeline again and trying to safeguard against that is well, I wouldn't say worthless, but at least make it clear you're arguing for that instead of trying to guilt trip your fellow Questers.
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And Abelhelm had Martial 24 and an even better weapon than Belegar, and was surrounded by Greatswords and doing something that was akin to another day at the office for him.

Belegar is going to be the emergency reserve, which has every possibility of him facing Rat Ogres and the like, as "the toughest opponents" are very likely to be where the line is buckling.

They don't need to get overwhelmed. Things can even, in fact, go too well.

I really don't see how I have to explain this to you, but a battlefield is, in fact, a dangerous place.

Are any of the options worth more than helping where the battle needs it most, and being on hand to heal Belegar?

I don't think so.

That the world doesn't revolve around Mathilde doesn't mean she is powerless to change it.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
And Abelhelm had Martial 24 and an even better weapon than Belegar, and was surrounded by Greatswords and doing something that was akin to another day at the office for him.

Belegar is going to be the emergency reserve, which has every possibility of him facing Rat Ogres and the like, as "the toughest opponents" are very likely to be where the line is buckling.

They don't need to get overwhelmed. Things can even, in fact, go to well.

I really don't see how I have to explain this to you, but a battlefield is, in fact, a dangerous place.

Are any of the options worth more than helping where the battle needs it most, and being on hand to heal Belegar?

I don't think so.

That the world doesn't revolve around Mathilde doesn't mean she is powerless to change it.
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One, Abelheim ate three natural 1s and about seven different rolls that got less than 30 from fighting to attempting to heal. So unless you want to argue on the 0.000001% chance plus however the probability for the latter rolls adds up and things going wrong - which again, I wouldn't oppose considering the temperament of the dices, you're still fearmongering and guilt tripping.

Two and again, I acquiesce that there is more intrinsic worth in being the quick responders but extrinsically speaking, not all that glitters is gold. Some people just want to have a quick heist romp after all the assassination excitement and temperamental dice with Goldie McPunchWizard. Coming in hot and yelling at that contingent of questers for daring to have fun and not go the 'worthy' option is a surefire way to make your argument fell on deaf ears. So please don't.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
And Abelhelm had Martial 24 and an even better weapon than Belegar, and was surrounded by Greatswords and doing something that was akin to another day at the office for him.
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While I understand your point, I want to note a few things:
  • He was not surrounded by Greatswords. The Greatswords were with the body of the troops. He was attempting to do an inspiring charge, because he was leading an army of peasants against the risen dead. These circumstances do not apply to Belegar; he doesn't need to lead a charge to inspire his troops here. He's leading an elite reaction force, and is surrounded by Hammerers.
  • Even with the natural 1 of the Army of Stirland's charge, and even with Van Hal's natural 1 on his personal combat roll, he did not die immediately. He survived long enough for dwarves to get down from the walls and bail us out, then some hours more in the camp. This extends the timeline tremendously for a potential healing intervention.
This isn't League of Legends and we aren't ADC-Belegar's pocket support. We do not need to stick by him lest he get ganked when we aren't around to toss a heal.

(This isn't to say that the concern is invalid; I think that Mathilde would be very in-character to fret about this sort of thing. But I don't think it needs to be our primary parameter for determining our disposition. Prioritizing the long-term strategic gains of denying the holder of under-Karagril access to Moulder's resources and/or gaining some for study and potential repurposing over assisting with a tactical situation that seems more-or-less under control is a totally valid stance to take.)
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
And Abelhelm had Martial 24 and an even better weapon than Belegar, and was surrounded by Greatswords and doing something that was akin to another day at the office for him.

Belegar is going to be the emergency reserve, which has every possibility of him facing Rat Ogres and the like, as "the toughest opponents" are very likely to be where the line is buckling.

They don't need to get overwhelmed. Things can even, in fact, go too well.

I really don't see how I have to explain this to you, but a battlefield is, in fact, a dangerous place.

Are any of the options worth more than helping where the battle needs it most, and being on hand to heal Belegar?

I don't think so.

That the world doesn't revolve around Mathilde doesn't mean she is powerless to change it.
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Aand using this line of thought, during the entire intitial campaign we should have been by his side instead of being so far from him with our immesurably valuable seed of regrowth.

In fact, why don't we take the role of his bodyguard fulltime? I mean, there is confirmed deployment of Eshin assassins, we never know when he will be in danger.

Obviously that is axactly how we should spent the rest of our life.
 
@BoneyM this just occurred to me, would our heal work on Belegar? You've mentioned the adverse reaction of some spells on dwarves before.
 
Quest said:
@BoneyM out of curiosity, would our heal work on Belegar? You've mentioned the adverse reaction of some spells on dwarves before.
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In before "try it and find out" -- SHIT EXMORRI BEAT ME TO IT
fine, i'm buying an account upgrade and tagging the thread "try it and find out." Let that be a lesson to you.
Guile said:
So far as we know, the We have never targeted Moulder. They certainly wouldn't be throwing egg-layers into a fight.
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The We used to live under Karag Lhune, didn't they? That would have made them neighbors to Moulder for however long they were there. Captured/experimented-on We are definitely a possibility here.
 
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