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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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picklepikkl said:
Serious question: what do we want the Ulgu tower for this turn? Just in case next turn we want to learn spells at home or do something like taming our shadow that benefits from it?
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We want the Ulgu Tower this turn, so we can get our spell learning out of the way with maximum efficiency.

Just because we can try to master two partially learned spells in one action doesn't mean it's a guaranteed thing. An extra +20 on top of that makes it a lot more likely.
 
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Alectai said:
We want the Ulgu Tower this turn, so we can get our spell learning out of the way with maximum efficiency.
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Most plans have Mathilde going to the college instead of learning at home so...

EDIT: Like, I am pretty sure that if Mathilde studies in the mono-wind environment of the college she won't get any boosts from the mono-wind environment of her room.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
I think your overthinking this one, Boney isn't going to good 'you didn't plan out the exact spot you put the towers. get recked son.'

we don't have to vote to breathe. the little details like that will be figured out by the characters in the story.
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It isn't that, but more that the Serenity is currently in Schrodinger Limbo and we need to vote if its on top of Neutrality or on its lonesome and to look at the issue with the Burning Shadows tower the current thread push to just build it on its lonesome is a problem because it locks out my preference of Ulgu Tower + Burning Shadows which I think is more powerful and impactful than Burning Shadows by itself.
 
Frankly I'd be ecstatic about being able to stick all our tower rooms into the same building. The only thing preventing me from campaigning for that exclusively is that stuff like sticking the maximum magic and the no magic rooms together would make BoneyM unhappy. But if they change their mind and decide that that's okay, I'd be all for it.
 
DragonParadox said:
So do you guys remember that conversation we had about whether Damsels of the Lady who wield sorcery can cast from more than one Wind of Magic? From Knights of the Grail (Second edition RPG):



  • Treat their powers as those of Wizards
  • Many of them cast spells from more than one lore
Theurgy really is in fact a game-changer there as well, or at least it can be.
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I don't think our version compares. They channel thier god's power and manipulate the winds with that. Closer to ulgu-tongs than theurgy. We'll do the opposite.

I suppose we could manipulate divine energy from multiple gods.
 
Alectai said:
We want the Ulgu Tower this turn, so we can get our spell learning out of the way with maximum efficiency.

Just because we can try to master two partially learned spells in one action doesn't mean it's a guaranteed thing. An extra +20 on top of that makes it a lot more likely.
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My impression was that we were going back to college for gacha, not trying to finish spells. @Abhorsen ran some numbers.
Abhorsen said:
Exactly my thinking. Gacha first means probably two actions to learn everything, while Partial first means we need a 4 on the Gacha to learn everything, or we need 3 actions.

Either way, we need at least one Gacha. Just for clarity, here's a table:
Gacha Result on number of spells# Actions if Partial First# Actions if Gacha First
233 or 2 if 2nd Gacha is 4
332 or 3 if 2nd Gacha is 2
422
Going Gacha First seems to be strictly better.
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It would be one thing if our partials were, like, Invisibility and Shadow Knives, but they're not. Rolling the dice seems better.
 
Quest said:
I don't think our version compares. They channel thier god's power and manipulate the winds with that. Closer to ulgu-tongs than theurgy. We'll do the opposite.

I suppose we could manipulate divine energy from multiple gods.
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I was not talking about the liber mortis inspired togues method, more making a point about how powerful theurgy can be. It's not that Damsels have to choose Life Beasts or Heavens, they can pick and choose spells, arcane spells with no risk of Dhar.
 
WanderingEye said:
If we ever become a ninja-wizard-warrior, I'd like to petition to change to quest title into Warframe quest :V

AFAIK Ulgu tower is also good for enchanting and studying anything ulgu related so I think it's good.
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I could be wrong, but I think that if we will vote to focus on studying AV for the next few turns then we won't have any AP to spare for enchanting; and no desire to learn anything Ulgu related that isn't spells (which we will study at the colleges anyway).
 
BungieONI said:
It isn't that, but more that the Serenity is currently in Schrodinger Limbo and we need to vote if its on top of Neutrality or on its lonesome and to look at the issue with the Burning Shadows tower the current thread push to just build it on its lonesome is a problem because it locks out my preference of Ulgu Tower + Burning Shadows which I think is more powerful and impactful than Burning Shadows by itself.
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I really think it is, these are not things a wizard making her towers would not think about. our girl knows more about this subject then we every will, and she isn't going to pick the choice that will fuck up her towers.

IC she will pick the options that make the most sense to her expert opinion. whether it's sticking them on top of each other it it works fine or spreading them out as much as needed.

this conversation is really not giving @BoneyM the benefit of the doubt.
 
DragonParadox said:
I was not talking about the liber mortis inspired togues method, more making a point about how powerful theurgy can be. It's not that Damsels have to choose Life Beasts or Heavens, they can pick and choose spells, arcane spells with no risk of Dhar.
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Yes, but the concept in both of them are the same. As a human, they channel only the Lady's power. Then they can use the Lady's power to manipulate the winds that the Lady approves of.

We are already tied to ulgu. Manipulating the other winds will require ulgu-tongs unless you are willing to renounce ulgu and embrace Ranald.

What our theurgy will do will literally be the opposite. It's never been attempted before.
 
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All right, it seems there are some arguments to be made for all of our remaining towers, I will attempt to summarize them. I will give bullet points for "this turn's utility," "long-term utility," and "next turn's utility" (since we're "locked in" if we choose to dig down). Notably, this is to figure out what tower to build with the pending tower construction we have, which will be available from the start of next turn.

Tower of Dawn and Dusk - with ritual and material and expert consultation, make your Tower like a tuning fork for Ulgu. Bonus to enchantment, rituals, spell learning, spell making, and power stone creation within the tower. 250gc, 5 College favours.
  • Not used for anything this turn unless we choose to tame our shadow or learn partials.
  • Probably the most long-term consistently useful tower of the ones remaining. Most of the difficult things we want to do are better here.
  • If we choose to dig down this turn, we will have this available next turn, making shadow-taming and spell study at home more viable for Turn 24.
Tower of Oh Dear - with a series of very prominent buttons easily accessible from anywhere in the room, be able to drain all magical energies in three heartbeats. Near-complete immunity to miscasts and any other conceivable magical threat. 200gc, 3 College favours, 3 Dwarf favours.
  • Might be useful for Aethyric Vitae research this turn. Last time Mathilde didn't try anything dangerous that would require this room's panic button, but last time she didn't have this room, so it is hard to judge how much bearing Oh Dear has on Aethyric Vitae investigation unless @BoneyM feels generous about giving us Mathilde's beliefs.
  • Long-term use is probably "studying Battle Magic on our own," if that's a thing that the College will allow, since we have a panic button, or any high-energy research.
  • If we choose to dig down this turn, I'm not sure what we would do next turn that would want this unless we decide to take the "weaponize Aethyric Vitae" option.
  • EDIT: It has been pointed out that this is probably the safest possible place for Johann to study warpstone tech in the hopes of replicating the effects without the use of warpstone, and thus it has bearing on any turn in which Johann does that, either because we told him to or because it's his third-favorite thing behind "being shiny" and "punching."
Tower of the Burning Shadow - to your sorrow, Burning Shadows cannot be cast on a mountain. To your delight, there's a way around that. There may not be a practical purpose to this, but deep in your soul you know you want to turn the entire shadow of Karag Nar into acid. 150gc, 4 College favours.
  • Not directly useful for solving any of our own problems in the short term, unless the end of the Battle of Karagril carries the implication that the Red Fang are stirred up and might have a go at us, in which case it leaps to the top of the list.
  • Long-term utility is very high; we won't need it often, but when we need it we'll really be glad we have it. Also might be useful in peacetime for increasing crop yields? Talk to Pan about that at wizard club.
  • If we choose to dig down this turn, we will be secure in the knowledge that we have the firepower of this fully armed and operational murder tower as backup.
Does that adequately summarize the points for each?
 
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SITB said:
I could be wrong, but I think that if we will vote to focus on studying AV for the next few turns then we won't have any AP to spare for enchanting; and no desire to learn anything Ulgu related that isn't spells (which we will study at the colleges anyway).
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I mean, what tower would you like to build?
There's nothing else that requires immediate attention right now, Oh Dear tower is nice if we want to perform more dangerous, battle magic-y experimentation.
I suppose if we want to stress test the AV we could use Oh Dear but utter neutrality seems to be working so far?
 
SITB said:
@picklepikkl, I don't think that the Oh Dear tower would be useful for only one turn of AV research; though if we aren't intending to research AV the room is indeed useless.
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My understanding of what people have been kicking around is "do enough AV research this turn that we can next turn take the action to give AV to the runelords with confidence that we'll have answers to their questions." This isn't to say that next turn we couldn't do any of our own, just that we will have invested 3/8 actions over two turns in Aethyric Vitae and maybe people would like to do something else. I know I for one would like to do the first step research into Ranald's Coin, plus there's all the non-nerd shit to do (Ranald's Temple, Wolf, taming our shadow, learning to shoot a gun accurately while invisible, learning to use our magical senses to pierce Pall of Darkness).
 
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CrimsonOddball said:
Eeeh?
I wouldn't think so
The Belt was given to repay favors owed to us, it's accordingly ours
It's not some kind of badge of office or loan, it belongs to Mathilde, it's hers and it's therefore up to her what she wants to do with it
If Mathilde feels she wants to give it to someone else of her own free will then that's her prerogative, much like how in the event of her death the sword and belt would go to whomever she indicated in her will
Maybe some Dwarves would have opinions on the worthiness of the recipient but they understand that it isn't up to them

Now it being unwillingly taken or Mathilde being strong armed into giving it up is a completely different matter
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Dwarven runes are ancestral divine magic made material. They are about as close to private property as holy relics in a world where gods regularly break windows in atheist's houses. You can own one and you can tecnically gift or sell one, but the whole congregation (in this case, Karaz Ankor) will take a moral stance on the act.

For example, we can't get an item with a Rune of Valaya (about 1/3 as sacred as our belt) for our potential apprentice, because Kragg will refuse to make it for some shmuck he doesn't know, no matter how much favor we have.
 
WanderingEye said:
I mean, what tower would you like to build?
There's nothing else that requires immediate attention right now, Oh Dear tower is nice if we want to perform more dangerous, battle magic-y experimentation.
I suppose if we want to stress test the AV we could use Oh Dear but utter neutrality seems to be working so far?
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I would favor building the Oh Dear tower because I believe that Mathilde will escalate her experiments to match the tools she has. So having the Oh Dear tower would make her studies of the AV more complete.


picklepikkl said:
My understanding of what people have been kicking around is "do enough AV research this turn that we can next turn take the action to give AV to the runelords with confidence that we'll have answers to their questions." This isn't to say that next turn we couldn't do any of our own, just that we will have invested 3/8 actions over two turns in Aethyric Vitae and maybe people would like to do something else. I know I for one would like to do the first step research into Ranald's Coin, plus there's all the non-nerd shit to do (Ranald's Temple, Wolf, taming our shadow, learning to shoot a gun accurately while invisible, learning to use our magical senses to pierce Pall of Darkness).
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I don't think that Belegar wouldn't give any tasks to Mathilde, so I assume that we will have less free AP than that; besides if I am wrong we can still vote to build the Ulgu tower on the next-next vote.
 
tho looks wise is it going to be this.


a bunch of different towers from the same base.



a bunch of towers next to each other




or one base tower that has new towers sticking out of it over time. (couldn't find one image that worked with whats in my head.)

going to be honest, while the last idea is a bit derpy. its a very WF kind of derp, so i kind of love it.
 
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