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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Dispel isn't that useful a spell. It's not counter spelling, it's cancelling a spell that's already been cast. If you don't often go up against enemies that cast long duration spells you won't need it.
Also, for all we know he did the equivilent of critical failing his attempt to learn it and so has a negative trait involved.
Invisibility is only Moderately Complicated.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
It's not like the winning plan is any better. Belegar doesn't pay Max to write papers for us. At least this way we get to see a fun adventure.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Yea on an actual outcome level I'm far more excited to read about another skaven delving adventure than I am about any of the other actions.
The spider actions can be pretty cutesy but they're not tense in the same way and don't have the same kind of suspense.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Great, that just leaves all the other issues with this idea.
I gotta emphasise, Plan Citadel spends 1.5 actions on our actual job and doesn't spend the Gambler on either. What exactly is the plan should either fail?
"Oh yeah, don't worry, I've moved those spiders behind the Dwarves fortifications you built. There's still no way to talk with the enchanted item to them because my journeymanling fucked up but them's the breaks, sorry Belebro, that's on me."
"Oh yeah, I taught the hive mind to read and write but there's no place to actually keep them yet besides right next to us. My bad."
Meanwhile, she's spending time setting up a Shrine, helping another advisor with their job instead of doing her own and randomly buggering off with another wizard to poke the Skaven. How do you think he's gonna react, exactly?
He's gonna tell us to stop fucking around and actually do the job he's asked of us. And he'd be absolutely right to do so.
If nothing else, move the Gambler to one of the spider actions, so we can be more sure of pointing to some success in our assigned task, instead of spending yet more resources on Johann's personal project.
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- Location
- Austria
Max writing paper on Waaagh for us without us dictating to him is why I am at least voting for Citadel instead of top plan.
That and snake juice with a lab-in-corner-of-bedroom.
- Location
- Singapore
That's exactly right - how on earth does Spider Silk research even match up to Belegar's political priorities, getting the Spiders out of the Chiselwand? It doesn't. Ranging into Clan Mors territory does. If the Dwarfs are inclined to see Johann as not doing his job, Spider Silk Research..... doesn't really help matters! Put him on a job related to the first and foremost job task priority this turn: relocation.
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If Johann had the choice, I suspect he'd rather poke Skyre than Mors as Skyre are more likely to have the machinery he's really interested in. Mors is what we judge is more useful for the Hold though. So we're going that way with him and we'll see just how useful he is as our Skaven expert. It does tie back to the spiders because from under the citadel it's Mors they'll mostly be facing.
Using Protector on the Citadel vote this turn would give the We a good impression of us - we're opening a whole new world of interaction to them and getting them back to a hunting ground, the guards on the Chiselwards will be pleased that they can stop watching spiders, Wolf would love us anyway. We might end up saving Johann's life or uncovering an immediate threat to K8P and get even more credit for those. Gambler is better for poking ratties though.
Using Protector on the Citadel vote this turn would give the We a good impression of us - we're opening a whole new world of interaction to them and getting them back to a hunting ground, the guards on the Chiselwards will be pleased that they can stop watching spiders, Wolf would love us anyway. We might end up saving Johann's life or uncovering an immediate threat to K8P and get even more credit for those. Gambler is better for poking ratties though.
It is related to the general "Investigate spiders" task. But right in the update we were given a much more specific directive, to either figure out a place for them to live and to establish means of communication with them, or to send them away. Figuring out what does their webs do is entirely unrelated to the said directive.
Poking around may cause problems through sabotage if we see the opportunity to do so, and it will work as a reconnaissance to detect any efforts Skaven will put against spiders. It may not be very effective in helping with our job, but the odds it will help are much higher than "figure out webs", something I don't see helping at all.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I do agree that Gambling the setup of the spiders avoids more potential downside, but Gambling the joint expedition into skaven territory allows more potential upside.
Personally I lean to the former, but I understand why people want the latter.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Wouldn't worm. WoG. You'll have to look up the statement for 'why' though.
As @Andmeuths pointed out above in much more detail than I want to, it is easy to make an argument that investigating Clan Mors is directly in service to helping the spiders successfully relocate. That has the Gambler's face assigned to it.
Remember, the question here is how our actions are perceived. Spending a lot of time on what happens beneath the Citadel in the turn that we've been told our job is to help our new allies relocate there can very easily be presented as being done in service to that goal. The fact that it also advances other goals is just gravy.
- Location
- Austria
Mors is safer, closer and well-mapped, meaning he a better shot at actually getting the goods and getting out with them.
He is not stupid, I think.
If we had a map of Skryre territory, we'd go there I suppose.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Our current task is to have the spiders move to another location plan citadel focus has them going to the citadel. We're also tasked with establishing communications with them on a more permanent basis which Max has been put to the task. We then collectively spend two tasks on doing stuff to the skaven nearby where the Spiders will be ranging from to hunt skaven for food.
I actually think Citadel plan does plenty.
You're currently voting for every line item of Plan Citadel Focus, instead of for the plan.
We do know that Mors has guns. We saw them. They buy and use warptech from Clan Skyre and other clans, and they probably make it themselves. Skyre are the best and most famous engineers amongst the skaven, but they don't have a monopoly, just as Mors has its own assassins (they're just less good).
He'd surely prefer Skyre, but Mors isn't useless to him.
That's not the impression I've gotten from the Vacation talk, but a fair point nonetheless.
I will point out, however, that by this logic none of the leading options have him do this either, as investigating spider webs does not assist with our current task of "get the We out of Karag Lhune one way or another" any more than investigating Mors.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
We still have the free action to get a magic item to talk to them.
"We encountered some problems teaching them Reikspeil. Might take a bit. Thankfully the magic item doesn't need them to know our language and 25% of the dwarves should be able to communicate."
"Relocation will take a slightly longer time, but the communication issue is taken care of."
We will be fine.
- Location
- Austria
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
That's correct. None of the wizards are really able to assist us with this. We're already doing the one action needed ourselves and I think it's high likely we'll succeed. So I'm not worried this turn about actually putting lots of actions to the task. Setting up communications is something I think we can delegate to Max as highly logical parsing of communications is likely to fit the mind set of the spooders hive mind and if not next turn we swoop and solve the issue ourselves.
There's also this.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
My thoughts on Veekie's plan, in detail:
[Max] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
Max is actually an excellent writer - there's a reason Mathilde has him do all her reports. Beyond that, the We have an incredibly logical thought process and don't understand the concept of lies - I expect them to get along quite well with a Gold Wizard.
And, of course, the benefits of the We being able to keep institutional knowledge for longer are pretty clear too - we can keep the alliance going longer if they remember it for longer, after all.
[Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Help Johann poke Clan Mors
-The Gambler: Poke Clan Mors
Johann is here to investigate Skaven tech. We need to know how he's going to be approaching this - if we assign him to do something else, he'll still do the Skaven scouting in his free time, only unsupervised and without the benefit of the Coin.
By taking this action, we can gauge his competence, see if his plan to observe the Skaven is workable, and actually decide how to handle him in the future from an informed perspective.
As an added bonus, I expect him to be able to boost our sabotage to a significant degree, and this option synergizes with this turn in general - Clan Mors is the "generalist" clan, so while they don't specialize in warptech, they do have some, and will almost certainly pull it out once they get wind of a sudden spider infestation... which is when we steal it.
This is a great opportunity for us to kill three birds with one stone, simultaneously observing Johann as he collects samples, weakening the Skaven, and helping the We establish a foothold.
[EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
The reasons for this have been detailed at length. Do not fuck with dwarves over payments. It should also naturally segue into some of the other policies we want to instill.
[SOCIAL] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
We put this off last turn - we really do need to spend some time with what is likely to be a lifelong companion of ours, and in practical terms this is likely to boost Mathildes own development too.
Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
Literally every plan is doing this, so I don't need to explain why it's important.
Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, assist him with human burial rites.
Everyone seems pretty much in agreement on this - we have pertinent knowledge that can help resolve one of his major issues, he's a potential friend who already helped us in a big way, and he's a potential source of greatsword training in the future.
You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
Ranald's been really, really good to us. We should set him up a temple as thanks, and the sooner we do it, the better, since we haven't gotten a major immigration influx yet and the culture is still very fluid.
[Max] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
Max is actually an excellent writer - there's a reason Mathilde has him do all her reports. Beyond that, the We have an incredibly logical thought process and don't understand the concept of lies - I expect them to get along quite well with a Gold Wizard.
And, of course, the benefits of the We being able to keep institutional knowledge for longer are pretty clear too - we can keep the alliance going longer if they remember it for longer, after all.
[Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Help Johann poke Clan Mors
-The Gambler: Poke Clan Mors
Johann is here to investigate Skaven tech. We need to know how he's going to be approaching this - if we assign him to do something else, he'll still do the Skaven scouting in his free time, only unsupervised and without the benefit of the Coin.
By taking this action, we can gauge his competence, see if his plan to observe the Skaven is workable, and actually decide how to handle him in the future from an informed perspective.
As an added bonus, I expect him to be able to boost our sabotage to a significant degree, and this option synergizes with this turn in general - Clan Mors is the "generalist" clan, so while they don't specialize in warptech, they do have some, and will almost certainly pull it out once they get wind of a sudden spider infestation... which is when we steal it.
This is a great opportunity for us to kill three birds with one stone, simultaneously observing Johann as he collects samples, weakening the Skaven, and helping the We establish a foothold.
[EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
The reasons for this have been detailed at length. Do not fuck with dwarves over payments. It should also naturally segue into some of the other policies we want to instill.
[SOCIAL] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
We put this off last turn - we really do need to spend some time with what is likely to be a lifelong companion of ours, and in practical terms this is likely to boost Mathildes own development too.
Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
Literally every plan is doing this, so I don't need to explain why it's important.
Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, assist him with human burial rites.
Everyone seems pretty much in agreement on this - we have pertinent knowledge that can help resolve one of his major issues, he's a potential friend who already helped us in a big way, and he's a potential source of greatsword training in the future.
You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
Ranald's been really, really good to us. We should set him up a temple as thanks, and the sooner we do it, the better, since we haven't gotten a major immigration influx yet and the culture is still very fluid.
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Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Now that's just factually wrong. It does have a spider-talking magic item in it, so even if teaching reikspiel fail, we still have a way for communication. And failure to relocate means the spiders are relocated to outside the dwarven perimeter, the Chiselwards are freed one way or another.
Not all our tasks are created equal. This turn's task is just that plain easy, we need to try very hard to actually fail to complete it.
In fact, spending a single free action - getting the eamulte from the colleges - guarantees it's formal completion, it's just the results would less than the thread hopes (but not less then Belegar expects, everybody but us is very sceptical about spider allience and will be satisfied by spiders just not squatting in chiselwords and not eating dwarfs).
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Good analysis, @Redshirt Army, but the X in the Gambler subitem caused your votes to be wiped out in the tally. You should fix that.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So I'm still back in year page 1795, but if someone else hasn't mentioned it yet, I've got a good reason why we should build the tower first before investigating the Snake Juice: Back when we were investigating the Shyish-kebabs, we had a second roll for figuring out the applications of the swords. The first roll was how well we did figuring out what it was, while the second was for finding uses for it:
While Mathilde figured out pretty well what the structure of the enchantment was, she didn't think our box of 49 swords was useful as anything but a store of Shyish energy. Building a tower to help enhance our experiments doesn't just increase our chances of identifying the structure of teh Snake Juice; it'll also help us find a way to actually use it. (Besides exploding it. It probably explodes well.)
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
While Mathilde figured out pretty well what the structure of the enchantment was, she didn't think our box of 49 swords was useful as anything but a store of Shyish energy. Building a tower to help enhance our experiments doesn't just increase our chances of identifying the structure of teh Snake Juice; it'll also help us find a way to actually use it. (Besides exploding it. It probably explodes well.)
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
Something to emphasise again, it's much easier for the We to establish their new hunting grounds beneath the Citadel if Clan Mors can't turn around and burn out their hunters in a volley of warpfire. The We are clearly a basically solved problem for the skaven, which means that we really should change the game as much as we can. Giving them a secure nest is nice. Sabotaging the skaven initial response until the We are nicely established is even better.
Clan Mors are also the clan that can be relied on to ct efficiently and quickly without internal dissension. They're the black orcs of skavendom.
Clan Mors are also the clan that can be relied on to ct efficiently and quickly without internal dissension. They're the black orcs of skavendom.
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