Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Australia
Wasn't splitting the use of the Coin between different actions not allowed? Because at least the top 2 plans seem to be doing it, so far as I understand their format.
Also, since I've been avoiding non-GM alerts, is there an actual reason people are voting for giving the EIC incredibly broad end goals and relying on people noticing and then informing us of noncompliance, rather than setting up an information network inside it and actually knowing anything about what's happening with the company, quite possibly before something goes wrong?
Also, since I've been avoiding non-GM alerts, is there an actual reason people are voting for giving the EIC incredibly broad end goals and relying on people noticing and then informing us of noncompliance, rather than setting up an information network inside it and actually knowing anything about what's happening with the company, quite possibly before something goes wrong?
- Location
- Russia
Now, after perusing tally, I did and thus approval vote for both of them
[X] Plan Publishing Power
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde
- Location
- Aotearoa
Benefit of experience?
Agreed. By, say, giving him a task? Like use your awesome spell and examine these webs?
I don't think 'receiving training' is possible as a social action- Git Gud takes time.
[] Plan Publishing Power uses the 'Social' slot to help out Gunnar, establish a relationship first.
Personal Relations: each turn, you get ONE free choice in this category. Additional selections cost actions.
[ ] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: specify who and how.
[ ] Spend time investigating a character without their knowledge: specify who.
[ ] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
[ ] Get in touch with Julia and find out if she'd be interested in passing on information to you.
- Location
- Russia
Benefit of experience?
Agreed. By, say, giving him a task? Like use your awesome spell and examine these webs?
I don't think 'receiving training' is possible as a social action- Git Gud takes time.
[] Plan Publishing Power uses the 'Social' slot to help out Gunnar, establish a relationship first.
We can help him as Social and receive training as main, before I went to sleep I asked QM in my own plan draft and he said it is possible to take lessons from him this turn if we are also helping him this turn.
Edit: Nevermind, I'm just stupid, you already use all 4 main actions on other things and Social on Gunnars.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
The enemy comment was in reply to us barring him from K8P. That would make him our enemy.
And I really don't think that's the arrangement at all. He had already earned the right to poke the skaven and their tech. He'd helped with the expedition just as we did. Even if we didn't recruit him, he's still gets to poke the skaven and their tech.
What happened was basically this:
Math: "So Journeyman Johann, I have a job offer for you."
Johann: "No, thank-"
Math: "Journeyman Johann, you may want to rethink that. I don't think a Journeyman can easily get an offer of this level. No journeyman would refuse this deal, right?"
Johann: "Uhhh"
Math: "You are journeyman, yes?"
Johann: "....I accept."
And when we sent him to "become a magister" we actually went all "It'd be such a shame if the dwarves found out that someone of your skill was still a journeyman, right journeyman Johann?"
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In the German (and thus Reikspiel) pronunciation, the -thilde is pronounced like tilde.
Review was hueg
-Dwarves like to see things for themselves. A lot of their projects are going to be very much physical ones, and being able to interact hands on with the project in question is very useful for judging how things are going.
-Dwarves aren't in a hurry, a few extra hours of walking here and there aren't a big deal.
-Dwarves are tough as stone and no amount of stairs will make them tired at a walking pace, regardless of their age. Humans by contrast go past their prime pretty damned fast. Stamina is the first to go.
Ulricans are doing fine at least, and moving into value added products rather than just raw materials. Might also find employment in manning the stables afterwards, last I recall dwarfs aren't much for animal husbandry and horses can be finicky.
Mathilde: "I feel like I should share a story about this Wizard Chic thing..."
Belegar must have been pretty desperate for guns if he's open to buying human product.
Seems that if we could find a spare EIC moment helping upgrade their production might be worthwhile though.
Theres just not enough dakka.
Also just...imagine them actually expanding until the entire Lhune upper mountain is a massive hangar.
Would look like a beehive
Keep an eye on the mushroom problem, if things clear up a bit it might be for Mathilde to find a solution to fungal infestations next.
I *think* Ghyran and Shyish might have spells to wither them away without causing undue collateral damage to the mechanisms?
Gunnar having enough broad knowledge to perform a Morrite funeral is interesting, wonder where he learned, or if the cults are friendly enough to exchange peripheral tips?
Still doing them one by one when theres thousands...yeah not gonna work.
The web weavers act as the 'higher' logic for planning further than immediate consequences, constructing a web requires planning and forethought(like, a drugged spider would weave an incoherent web IRL, google LSD spiders for ideas)
And egg layers which don't experience any risk form the memory banks, relaying information internally to ensure redundancy.
Belegar is giving us the look Abelhelm used to give Anton.
Heee
Expeditionary means hmm, not a clan heirloom, already written off more than a thousand years ago.
The degree of damage also means it has no special morale value as a historical artifact, its a symbol of loss and they don't need to add a new one of those.
"Specific mine-and-dash job". That sounds like an euphemism for "We found Gromril in hostile territory, extract what you can and bugger off before someone catches on".
Given that we found it in Skaven hands, that means they're mining this gromril from a warpstone meteor.
And the Skaven got the mining crew.
-Shoddy work - Amulet to resist a temperature of over a thousand celsius, lasts a few centuries.
-Beardling/Youngster - Longbeard Grandmaster Blacksmith.
Magic -> Dhar -> Warpstone -> Gromril
Magic condensed forms Dhar. Dhar when concentrated naturally or compressed unnaturally forms Warpstone. Warpstone at sufficient density forms Gromril, but its weaker than what would be basically magic neutronium/degenerate matter should be because it still contains a lot of warpstone and Dhar in its matrix, and you need to purify it out without creating more trace amounts of warpstone.
If so once you get all those out it should be basically as magically unreactive as neutronium would be utterly chemically unreactive.
So final recap on advisor instructions:
-Steward - More stables and carts for trade at the Ulricans
-Diplomat - Ulricans meet and greet
-Marshal - Buy more guns, or crossbows if you can't.
-Sky Thane - Build repair bay.
-Wizard - Settle the Spiders somewhere nice where they won't get in the way or send them on if not.
-High Priest - Continue Great Tomb project
Well, its unusual but it makes sense if you think about it:
-Dwarves like to see things for themselves. A lot of their projects are going to be very much physical ones, and being able to interact hands on with the project in question is very useful for judging how things are going.
-Dwarves aren't in a hurry, a few extra hours of walking here and there aren't a big deal.
-Dwarves are tough as stone and no amount of stairs will make them tired at a walking pace, regardless of their age. Humans by contrast go past their prime pretty damned fast. Stamina is the first to go.
Agricultural efforts look promising. We'll know when the harvest comes out but its got literally every practical expertise applied.
Train would be a nice addition, but with dwarf work an artisanal subway is going to break the bank however you cut it. Maybe once goods volume grows a lot.
Ulricans are doing fine at least, and moving into value added products rather than just raw materials. Might also find employment in manning the stables afterwards, last I recall dwarfs aren't much for animal husbandry and horses can be finicky.
Jebus, we've bought out every sword, gun and with Mathilde most of the books in Barak Varr. Their merchants must be throwing a big party...and buying out basically everything from other traders arriving.
Hmm. I wonder if the Empire realized a entire Knightly Order Chapter just up and vanished yet. Its a big thing to misplace.
Well...I suppose the trolls are pretty easy to contain if they are this smart. The unmortared walls are particularly nice trick. Too hard to climb without knocking them over too.
[Afterwards]
Mathilde: "I feel like I should share a story about this Wizard Chic thing..."
Belegar must have been pretty desperate for guns if he's open to buying human product.
Seems that if we could find a spare EIC moment helping upgrade their production might be worthwhile though.
Theres just not enough dakka.
The future AA looks good. Definitely would favor organ guns though. Anti air needs a lot of volume of fire and bolt throwers are just too difficult to angle.
Also just...imagine them actually expanding until the entire Lhune upper mountain is a massive hangar.
Would look like a beehive
Wondered why briefly, but realized that exposed powder is asking for hostile artillery or magic to detonate them. One reload cycle limits the damage below whats needed to collapse a bay.
Sounds like a pain to build an engineering bay if you had to drag a copter up a ramp. Still, aircraft just can't do without servicing.
Keep an eye on the mushroom problem, if things clear up a bit it might be for Mathilde to find a solution to fungal infestations next.
I *think* Ghyran and Shyish might have spells to wither them away without causing undue collateral damage to the mechanisms?
Entomb the honored dead properly. Halfling leader is a priestess after all, and from Stirland so they know how to settle things so the undead don't rise.
Gunnar having enough broad knowledge to perform a Morrite funeral is interesting, wonder where he learned, or if the cults are friendly enough to exchange peripheral tips?
Still doing them one by one when theres thousands...yeah not gonna work.
Hmm, I'd guess the hunters form the 'conscious' mind when they aren't in combat, since a lot of the processing for abstract thought is similar to those use to pounce on a target and assess risk.
The web weavers act as the 'higher' logic for planning further than immediate consequences, constructing a web requires planning and forethought(like, a drugged spider would weave an incoherent web IRL, google LSD spiders for ideas)
And egg layers which don't experience any risk form the memory banks, relaying information internally to ensure redundancy.
Belegar is giving us the look Abelhelm used to give Anton.
Heee
The most beautiful part of this scheme is that this is literally the strategy the Skaven use. Protected breeders spawning replacements, expendable warrior caste.
Shouldn't be too hard to find a place to settle them into. Preferably with lots of Skaven to eat.
Mathilde: "I took a walk. It was a very enthusiastic walk."
Zhufbar is very convenient, since we have Zhufbar royalty sign off on it.
Expeditionary means hmm, not a clan heirloom, already written off more than a thousand years ago.
The degree of damage also means it has no special morale value as a historical artifact, its a symbol of loss and they don't need to add a new one of those.
"Specific mine-and-dash job". That sounds like an euphemism for "We found Gromril in hostile territory, extract what you can and bugger off before someone catches on".
Given that we found it in Skaven hands, that means they're mining this gromril from a warpstone meteor.
And the Skaven got the mining crew.
Kragg.txt:
-Shoddy work - Amulet to resist a temperature of over a thousand celsius, lasts a few centuries.
-Beardling/Youngster - Longbeard Grandmaster Blacksmith.
Hey, cast metal is usually of more consistency! Its only with steel and iron where forging by hammer work does anything but introduce stress patterns because of how the alloy can transform!
Don't worry Kragg. We're working on Ulgu ascension.
Huh, from the description, I wonder if Gromril isn't condensed FROM the Warpstone. Like, to use a somewhat forced analogy:
Magic -> Dhar -> Warpstone -> Gromril
Magic condensed forms Dhar. Dhar when concentrated naturally or compressed unnaturally forms Warpstone. Warpstone at sufficient density forms Gromril, but its weaker than what would be basically magic neutronium/degenerate matter should be because it still contains a lot of warpstone and Dhar in its matrix, and you need to purify it out without creating more trace amounts of warpstone.
If so once you get all those out it should be basically as magically unreactive as neutronium would be utterly chemically unreactive.
So final recap on advisor instructions:
-Steward - More stables and carts for trade at the Ulricans
-Diplomat - Ulricans meet and greet
-Marshal - Buy more guns, or crossbows if you can't.
-Sky Thane - Build repair bay.
-Wizard - Settle the Spiders somewhere nice where they won't get in the way or send them on if not.
-High Priest - Continue Great Tomb project
- Location
- Aotearoa
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Or we could actually spend time with him and come to an arrangement?
- Location
- Aotearoa
That's another approach. However, poking Clan Mors isn't the right venue.
As other's have said, Johann is likely to be much more interested in Skryre. You want to drag him into Clan Mors- where is his shiny warptech?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Mors, Gunnars and Ranald
[X] Magical Mathilde
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde Underground
[X]Plan Citadel Focus
[X] Plan Publishing Power
I do still want to force Johann to finish his project and leave, but my main goal here is semaphore+ delay snek, and ranald is great.
[X] Magical Mathilde
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde Underground
[X]Plan Citadel Focus
[X] Plan Publishing Power
I do still want to force Johann to finish his project and leave, but my main goal here is semaphore+ delay snek, and ranald is great.
- Location
- United States of America
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde
I'm certainly feeling the tension of having too much to do and not enough actions for them. There's our job, there's improving our own spells, there's snake blood, there's setting up a shrine to Ranald, and there's helping other councilors with their jobs. And we can't do all of them.
I think that either of these plans is fine. While I would also like the "Citadel Focus" plan, I just don't think that having Max teaching "The We" Reikspiel is a good method of ensuring "The We" can communicate after the Amber Wizards leave. I would much rather teach them a means to communicate which requires no other technology or tools, and the Dwarven semaphore system fits that.
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde
I'm certainly feeling the tension of having too much to do and not enough actions for them. There's our job, there's improving our own spells, there's snake blood, there's setting up a shrine to Ranald, and there's helping other councilors with their jobs. And we can't do all of them.
I think that either of these plans is fine. While I would also like the "Citadel Focus" plan, I just don't think that having Max teaching "The We" Reikspiel is a good method of ensuring "The We" can communicate after the Amber Wizards leave. I would much rather teach them a means to communicate which requires no other technology or tools, and the Dwarven semaphore system fits that.
Skryre has the best and most abundant warptech but it's not the only one making it and other clans can and regularly do buy their artifice.
If we never intend to have Johann work on our projects and instead are just going to let him work on his projects is there a way to just cut him loose?
We just paid him for six months of not working for us and a large portion of the voter base wants to repeat that. If we're not having fun bossing him around and we're not getting any use out of him there's not much point in having him on staff.
I'm fine with spending time together hunting down Skaven when he's not an employee but right now it feels inappropriate to do so. Especially since I'm pretty sure it's Belegar's money we're spending here.
We just paid him for six months of not working for us and a large portion of the voter base wants to repeat that. If we're not having fun bossing him around and we're not getting any use out of him there's not much point in having him on staff.
I'm fine with spending time together hunting down Skaven when he's not an employee but right now it feels inappropriate to do so. Especially since I'm pretty sure it's Belegar's money we're spending here.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
It's compromise and as good as any. While Skyre is the tech clan, Mors is not devoid of tech. Investigating them is something we want as we're settling the spiders in the same area and we should be able to get something nice since it's the two of us. While doing this he gets to see what we're capable of, we get to see what he's capable of and we can bond while screwing with Skaven.
If we can't work something out, we can cut him off and hire someone else. But if we don't intend to try to do that, then why the hell did we vote for him anyway? It wasn't a secret that we needed a carrot and stick approach. We've been using stick. Let's finally use a carrot.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
?? There are several quite similar plans, all teaching semaphore to Spider-We.
And that's where- for now- it loses me completely. I don't want to be the reason the Skaven War for K8P starts hot.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
You are honestly overthinking this. "Screwing with skaven" is hyperbole. Johann's action is explicitly "investigate the skaven" not "start a war with the skaven". Mathilde is not an idiot. A similar argument arose with advising to reforge the armor all over nothing. She didn't even need to bring her opinion up in the chapter proper.
@BoneyM if the vote to 'poke' the skaven wins, are Johann and Mathilde going to prematurely start a war between the skaven and the dwarves?
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'Help Johann' leads me to interpret 'poke' through the lens of Johann's objective, which is explicitly investigation and by his general goal getting warptech. They might go smash and grab for a particularly juicy target but they're not going to get anywhere near the bloodshed that Mors are receiving on three separate fronts.
- Location
- Aotearoa
If we're resorting to characterising each other's statements now, this is also hyperbolic. We're not claiming war is inevitable if you poke Mors, but I don't want to risk it.
I do expect that if we roll very well, we'll be ghosts.
Edit: fair enough. I still prefer to give Johann an actual paid-for task.
AND for that matter, the leading Poke with Johann plan has the for-me deal-breaking 'Teach We to Write'
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- Location
- Singapore
Take him down to the battle-lines in the Under-Citadel? Take him down to the market, see what other insights he can glean from those front-lines -from a distance if it comes down to that (really, I suspect a Chamon Skaven expert probably could figure out what kind of wraptech might be present during Skaven on Skaven battles, and Clan Mors markets probably aren't totally devoid of Warptech). Clan Mors borders are where multiple Skaven clans intersect in hostilities, so if he or Mathilde ever thinks of hitting other Skaven clans, the battlefield remnants may well give alot of clues what it is Mathilde or Johann might expect be available from the likes of Clan Skyre - what gear is being used out there, how large the battles are. Get Johann down into one of those Skaven markets in the Under-Citadel - I suspect that if he wants to plunder Clan Skyre gear eventually, it's Skaven markets (not the ones in the Under-Citadel) that Johann will find some luck, and I suspect that trade-link between the rest of the Underempire do occur through even the Clan Mors Market despite the ongoing war.
I suspect that Johann can pick up even more clues on runs down there to the Under-Citadel that Mathilde can't pick up because she isn't a Skaven expert (yet), plus if we ever want to put him to work with the Spiders down the line, I think being able to monitor Spider hunting parties down there in the Under-Citadel would be a good way to break him into the Spider project we likely will pull him into with things such as Spider Silk research and communication. I think signaling that we understand that he will focus his attention on Skavens when he is not doing a paid assignment is going to be useful. I think signalling that we are willing to work with him on Skaven scouting if our duties and concerns coincide helps us get our working relationship with a fellow Magister on a more amicable start.
I do think that offering an implicit quid pro quo (do the other future assignments we ask you to do, and we are willing to share what we know about Skaven activities to you) would help make working relationships with Johann smoother, since we acknowledge him as a peer socially that we have command of because of an office we hold, and there are many forms working relations between bosses and subordinates of equivalent social rank might take. If Johann is the kind of person who will spit at an Olive branch offer to him rather than reciprocate, how much more difficulties might result if we choose a position of we are Lord Dictator over Johann? And if he's not that kind of person in the first place, even then, all of us understand the notion of favors to one another. Let's give him the carrot this turn, not the stick.
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