I suppose I am not sure whether the OOC reason for slots applies in this case, as enchanted robes would just make the armour better for a more powerful mage without complicating things, but I guess it's possible the armour enchantment just makes it tougher for a more powerful mage in the first place.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If you could have a robe with the armour, von Tarnus would have had a robe be a part of the armour.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I like the Knight Order idea - give us more people to give enchantment experiments to while seeing it in use, give the colleges another foothold in Imperial power structures, give us some beatsticks we can reliably call on for fighting.
Though, I'm also tempted to say it should be a Collegiate order rather than just ours, so more wizards get to benefit. Could lead to some Magisters or most Battle Wizards getting a knight - or greatsword- bodyguard, which is a fun mental image (though probably already possible for folks who want one).
Though, I'm also tempted to say it should be a Collegiate order rather than just ours, so more wizards get to benefit. Could lead to some Magisters or most Battle Wizards getting a knight - or greatsword- bodyguard, which is a fun mental image (though probably already possible for folks who want one).
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Not that I expect it to get much if any traction, but would trained War Pegasus be valid as one college contribution for the Ambers? If so, would enchanted war bling for it be a valid Gold request?
And because I can't let it go, how would Griffon fit into the equation?
And because I can't let it go, how would Griffon fit into the equation?
Somewhat, but the joy of being the designated Order Horde race is that by the time an Everchosen gets from rumblings to the gates of Kislev the armies should hopefully have recovered. When combined with the removal of daggers at our back, better to take our shots from a position of strength and deliberate planning instead of a mad scramble hiring 4-6 deranged maniacs for a last ditch Hail Shallya.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Counterargument: camel-riders are called camelry, and the world is a more fun and joyous place if we open our minds and hearts to the possibilities exposed by [arbitrary animal]ry.
Yes to both.
Too big for an individual college, to small for all eight. Might be best to cash in a great deed instead.
- Location
- Earth
I have returned... with a couple of arguments in favor of the airship:
1) The biggest one: just imagine it, parked outside of Pan's tree-house, tied up next to the giant tree. Just imagine that scene, with Mat's airship moored under the branches of the Great Tree. Does it not appeal?
...but if we have to be boring, and practical, well... the Badlands get flooded by the green tide once a generation. Even the dwarven supported lands (Greta) from Barak Varr have an "we shall run and meet them on the walls" strategy for dealing with those Warrghs. You know what Azul and K8Ps still have? A single wet river/land bound connection to the rest of the civilized words. During any such Waargh, I'll bet you a flying ship could carry a lot more necessary essentials/reinforcements/supplies/trade/fancy dwarven beer over the Badlands (and the orks heads) than any dwarven bombers.
After all, it would be an entire flying ship. This should be extra true if we make it to be cargo and combat, not full on speed. (we have acess to gyrocopters for that). That way it can still serve as expedition base, FOB for any wars/reconquests and so on, while looking really cute parked outside of Pan's door. And if we ever need to move something big again (like many boxes, Waystones, Dragonstones, a bunch of cannon, dwarves or knights on expedition, etc, etc.) we'd have our own way of traveling by air in both relative comfort (which might matter for any spoiled elven/noble passingers) and with at least a squad of support to back Mat up, whereever she is going.
(This would also be a permanent commercial/marketing to the dwarves on the wonders of magic... that can be rented. At least by Dwarven Kings.)
Besides... don't you want to be an air pirate, matey? (I mean, privateer, but it's the same thing)
Also, in the worst case scenario, it can serve as an evac vessel for VIPs if someplace is failing/falling/losing a siege. Or what a flying ship with cannon does to walls, in a siege scenario. The words "absolute range advantage" come to mind.
Mind you, a lot of nasty stuff has access to some kind of long range anti air attack, or some kind of flier of their own, but that's this wacky world for you. I still think our own cannon in the air should be better than most mundane options, and Mat can contest the magic ones.
... we may need to invent some kind of magical way to not die from falling, if it doesn't already exsist.
(Just imagine it: the ship can be Mat's home away from home. And then, when she comes home to K8Ps, she can moor her mobile home next to Pan's new home and say "Hi neighbour!")
Like... Dwaven Karak in need of reqonquest? Let me just get there in my flying ship armed with cannon and well supplied with dwarven beer and fresh slayers!
Black Fire pass is being assaulted by a milion greenskins? Let me just add some flying artilery to that! Mundane and. And. Magic...
I'm sorry. I really am. My stupid brain had an idea. It always does this.
Is there any reason why Mat... couldn't cast Burning Shadows from the bow of an airship high in the sky? Or its figurehead?
Why an airship couldn't be... let's say... desinged to optimise the application of that stupidly broken thing?
I mean, I know, we wouldn't be able to move the sun... but that's still a nasty suprise to be able to spring on any army in the open.
"Oh, if the Sun is out, and we can get east or west of you during Morning or Evening and the ground is mostly flat, you get to dispel my "Burn this Army" spell. Or die.
(Well, lose most of the non-elite units, but that's still a crippled army in the end.)
Someone correct me. Someone tell me I'm mad. That there's a reason why this should not, could not, would not work. There has to be one. Like Mat's shadow being insignificant from such a distance, without a tower/citadel to reinforce/enlarge the shadow cast.
Yeah. Actually, that would make sense. Even if the whole boat was part made/built/enchanted to enable that nonsense, its range, reach and scope would only be as big as the shadow of the ship.
Which would be sharply limited.
...
...during the day.
At night, with a potent incandecent light source on the ship itself?
Well. Shit.
I may have actually seriously talked myself into the airship option. Bloody Burning Shadows. No range or scope limits, just "shadow or shadows cast" by light "as bright as a torch or brighter" . Fix your broken shit, Games Workshop. Surely, Chaos, Gork and Mork will not let us keep getting away with this?
Or are we starting the Naggaroth v Ulthuan Airship Burning Shadow wars? (Wouldn't Naggaroth use dragons for this? Ulthuan too, now that I think of it. Shouldn't they already have been doing this for a while, if it was possible? I have so many questions.)
1) The biggest one: just imagine it, parked outside of Pan's tree-house, tied up next to the giant tree. Just imagine that scene, with Mat's airship moored under the branches of the Great Tree. Does it not appeal?
...but if we have to be boring, and practical, well... the Badlands get flooded by the green tide once a generation. Even the dwarven supported lands (Greta) from Barak Varr have an "we shall run and meet them on the walls" strategy for dealing with those Warrghs. You know what Azul and K8Ps still have? A single wet river/land bound connection to the rest of the civilized words. During any such Waargh, I'll bet you a flying ship could carry a lot more necessary essentials/reinforcements/supplies/trade/fancy dwarven beer over the Badlands (and the orks heads) than any dwarven bombers.
After all, it would be an entire flying ship. This should be extra true if we make it to be cargo and combat, not full on speed. (we have acess to gyrocopters for that). That way it can still serve as expedition base, FOB for any wars/reconquests and so on, while looking really cute parked outside of Pan's door. And if we ever need to move something big again (like many boxes, Waystones, Dragonstones, a bunch of cannon, dwarves or knights on expedition, etc, etc.) we'd have our own way of traveling by air in both relative comfort (which might matter for any spoiled elven/noble passingers) and with at least a squad of support to back Mat up, whereever she is going.
(This would also be a permanent commercial/marketing to the dwarves on the wonders of magic... that can be rented. At least by Dwarven Kings.)
Besides... don't you want to be an air pirate, matey? (I mean, privateer, but it's the same thing)
Also, in the worst case scenario, it can serve as an evac vessel for VIPs if someplace is failing/falling/losing a siege. Or what a flying ship with cannon does to walls, in a siege scenario. The words "absolute range advantage" come to mind.
Mind you, a lot of nasty stuff has access to some kind of long range anti air attack, or some kind of flier of their own, but that's this wacky world for you. I still think our own cannon in the air should be better than most mundane options, and Mat can contest the magic ones.
... we may need to invent some kind of magical way to not die from falling, if it doesn't already exsist.
(Just imagine it: the ship can be Mat's home away from home. And then, when she comes home to K8Ps, she can moor her mobile home next to Pan's new home and say "Hi neighbour!")
Like... Dwaven Karak in need of reqonquest? Let me just get there in my flying ship armed with cannon and well supplied with dwarven beer and fresh slayers!
Black Fire pass is being assaulted by a milion greenskins? Let me just add some flying artilery to that! Mundane and. And. Magic...
I'm sorry. I really am. My stupid brain had an idea. It always does this.
Is there any reason why Mat... couldn't cast Burning Shadows from the bow of an airship high in the sky? Or its figurehead?
Why an airship couldn't be... let's say... desinged to optimise the application of that stupidly broken thing?
I mean, I know, we wouldn't be able to move the sun... but that's still a nasty suprise to be able to spring on any army in the open.
"Oh, if the Sun is out, and we can get east or west of you during Morning or Evening and the ground is mostly flat, you get to dispel my "Burn this Army" spell. Or die.
(Well, lose most of the non-elite units, but that's still a crippled army in the end.)
Someone correct me. Someone tell me I'm mad. That there's a reason why this should not, could not, would not work. There has to be one. Like Mat's shadow being insignificant from such a distance, without a tower/citadel to reinforce/enlarge the shadow cast.
Yeah. Actually, that would make sense. Even if the whole boat was part made/built/enchanted to enable that nonsense, its range, reach and scope would only be as big as the shadow of the ship.
Which would be sharply limited.
...
...during the day.
At night, with a potent incandecent light source on the ship itself?
Well. Shit.
I may have actually seriously talked myself into the airship option. Bloody Burning Shadows. No range or scope limits, just "shadow or shadows cast" by light "as bright as a torch or brighter" . Fix your broken shit, Games Workshop. Surely, Chaos, Gork and Mork will not let us keep getting away with this?
Or are we starting the Naggaroth v Ulthuan Airship Burning Shadow wars? (Wouldn't Naggaroth use dragons for this? Ulthuan too, now that I think of it. Shouldn't they already have been doing this for a while, if it was possible? I have so many questions.)
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I mean, you can wear robes over the armor and enjoy folks surprisedpikachu.jpg when they try to separate your top from your bottom. They just have to be regular robes, not enchanted robes -- the discussion was about combining the armor with enchanted robes specifically.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
But it's a known chaos strategem to tie up armies elsewhere to clear the path for everchosen. My argument is basically that chaos is going to pick the absolute worst and least flexible moment for order to make their move, so not having all forces already engaged is a good thing.
How bulky do you think Mathilde's robes are?
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Counter-counterargument: Someone finds out they are about to fight cavalry, and suddenly it's mammoths!
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
If we wait for chaos armies to assemble to counter them, we will spend rest of eternity sitting on armies doing nothing while enemy chips at our very foundations. Its just not worth it worrying over. We have no firm time table when chaos could make a move.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't want a flying tower because it is mechanically optimal. i want a flying tower because I want a flying tower.
- Location
- wild blue yonder
I'd like to offer an alternative perspective on this mega-boon similar to the one I had, broadly speaking, about the Kislev mega-boon - we should be concentrating on options that could only be had by all 8 Colleges working in concert.
Don't get me wrong: using it for something like an armor that AC boosts us or a big floating fortress is undeniably useful (and from a fun perspective, totally valid), but for all that we more or less decide what Mathilde wants, neither one feels much like a Mathilde choice. Certainly Mathilde gets into melee often, and has gone to war before, but in my opinion, her choices of things to improve herself in combat would be things that let her defeat people indirectly or skullduggerously (like the Branalhune sword flickering thing); and her choice as an anti-war option would be something diplomatic or academic.
At the risk of doing a funny - the Eye of Gazul was an outlier adn shouldn't be counted in regards to Mathilde's characterization. It was provoked by being cornered in a place she couldn't retreat from (K8P and all her people) against an opposing force she didn't have the time to attrition down using her preferred methods (half a million greenskins). To me, a flying fortress or ship isn't Ranaldian, Ulgu-ian, or Mathildian.
There's two options I see which more fit Mathilde narratively, one of which I'll offer now:
What if we asked the Colleges to bring a joint resolution to the Emperor and Grand Theogenist to recognize the Hedgewise as a sanctioned magic institution/practice, a la the Alchemists and such? (Barring Boney shooting this straight down, of course).
To be clear, I don't think even this boon would just one-shot the issue, but it would be a huge swing in the right direction to even officially ask for it, both in terms of relations between the Hedgewise and Colleges and Hedgewise and Empire.
Here's my reasoning: Firstly, we've been working side-by-side with Hedgewise for the last long while, and have probably enough credit with them to act as an emissary, and as someone who can convincingly advocate for their intentions and work. They offered extremely valuable insight but weren't able to be officially recognized on the Bokha Palace Accords for their worship. With the exception of back channels like the one Magister in the Greys who talks with them, they still have to worry about being hunted down by Witch Hunters - which has to strike right at the bone of Mathilde's own origin when she very narrowly escaped the same fate. And while they aren't certainly at the top of the Sigmarites' list, they are very definitely on it.
Secondly, any magic-users that safely and happily can join the Hedgewise are ones that don't go on to become witches and Dhar-users. Indirectly spikes the wheel of bad-guy recruiting all over the Empire, as well as taking another strike at the persecution that's already getting battered from the recognition of our godson as a wizard Prince. If there was ever a time to make bigger and more ambitious strides in the Wizard Rights Movement, this would be it.
Thirdly, if I recollect correctly some of the deep lore from this thread, I believe one of the godly daughters of Ranald is strongly likely to be one of their patron goddesses (will dig more on that when I can). That, along with the cause itself, puts this cause so far into the Ranaldian camp it's not funny.
That's the first option I see. The second is one already mentioned - this is probably the only way to get a sanction to study Dhar more, though I will note that if it ever gets out we have and have had the Liber Mortis after we've got that permission, we will absolutely be executed with zero recourse.
EDIT: Haletha, that was the goddess.
Don't get me wrong: using it for something like an armor that AC boosts us or a big floating fortress is undeniably useful (and from a fun perspective, totally valid), but for all that we more or less decide what Mathilde wants, neither one feels much like a Mathilde choice. Certainly Mathilde gets into melee often, and has gone to war before, but in my opinion, her choices of things to improve herself in combat would be things that let her defeat people indirectly or skullduggerously (like the Branalhune sword flickering thing); and her choice as an anti-war option would be something diplomatic or academic.
At the risk of doing a funny - the Eye of Gazul was an outlier adn shouldn't be counted in regards to Mathilde's characterization. It was provoked by being cornered in a place she couldn't retreat from (K8P and all her people) against an opposing force she didn't have the time to attrition down using her preferred methods (half a million greenskins). To me, a flying fortress or ship isn't Ranaldian, Ulgu-ian, or Mathildian.
There's two options I see which more fit Mathilde narratively, one of which I'll offer now:
What if we asked the Colleges to bring a joint resolution to the Emperor and Grand Theogenist to recognize the Hedgewise as a sanctioned magic institution/practice, a la the Alchemists and such? (Barring Boney shooting this straight down, of course).
To be clear, I don't think even this boon would just one-shot the issue, but it would be a huge swing in the right direction to even officially ask for it, both in terms of relations between the Hedgewise and Colleges and Hedgewise and Empire.
Here's my reasoning: Firstly, we've been working side-by-side with Hedgewise for the last long while, and have probably enough credit with them to act as an emissary, and as someone who can convincingly advocate for their intentions and work. They offered extremely valuable insight but weren't able to be officially recognized on the Bokha Palace Accords for their worship. With the exception of back channels like the one Magister in the Greys who talks with them, they still have to worry about being hunted down by Witch Hunters - which has to strike right at the bone of Mathilde's own origin when she very narrowly escaped the same fate. And while they aren't certainly at the top of the Sigmarites' list, they are very definitely on it.
Secondly, any magic-users that safely and happily can join the Hedgewise are ones that don't go on to become witches and Dhar-users. Indirectly spikes the wheel of bad-guy recruiting all over the Empire, as well as taking another strike at the persecution that's already getting battered from the recognition of our godson as a wizard Prince. If there was ever a time to make bigger and more ambitious strides in the Wizard Rights Movement, this would be it.
Thirdly, if I recollect correctly some of the deep lore from this thread, I believe one of the godly daughters of Ranald is strongly likely to be one of their patron goddesses (will dig more on that when I can). That, along with the cause itself, puts this cause so far into the Ranaldian camp it's not funny.
That's the first option I see. The second is one already mentioned - this is probably the only way to get a sanction to study Dhar more, though I will note that if it ever gets out we have and have had the Liber Mortis after we've got that permission, we will absolutely be executed with zero recourse.
EDIT: Haletha, that was the goddess.
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I'd vote for it. I am still sad we didn't go for rescueing (steal) Stompy when we had the chance. That said would asking for a Mammoth (just the Mammoth) be possible for just the Amber college?
It's not though. Chaos armies move whenever whoever the hell gets the Bling of Evil and is declared Everchosen says 'go' which they do according to their own personal ideas and insanity. True Chaos aligned factions try to make as much of a mess as they can to usher in their champion, but that is not the same thing as choosing the perfect moment to strike, getting several Chaos factions moving in the same general direction is like herding malicious cats even for the Everchosen.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Has been raised.
(Not to pick on you specifically, but I strongly suggest people with clever ideas use the Search Thread feature and search a keyword for the idea in posts by Boney to see if they've said anything about it already. I know the thread moves fast and reading everything is an unreasonable expectation, but Search is really useful.)
'To study Dhar more' in what way? We already know as much as we can about it without casting.
We can't legalise the Hedgewise, because the Hedgewise are nine distinct organisations that practice illegal magic for very different reasons, and all of them claim a different origin for their magic.
Additionally, Boney has hinted that the legal status of the only Hedgewise group we are personally acquainted with, the Nordlander Hedgewise, may change by the end of this social turn.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
It's asking for a trained one, people to crew it, then asking (after proving) for it to be the standard mount which would make it a full boon request.
While yes, I do want a mammoth, a big part of the benefit is making mammoths the standard issue mounts for battle-altars has a compounding effect. Also, Mammoths (at least the first few) are hard to get.
But I never did ask Boney Specifically:
@Boney, would asking for the Battle Altar Mammoth, with the idea that after being proven Mammoths be the standard (not only, just standard) mount for altars be viable?
I'm hoping this would long-term reduce the costs in battle of both battle wizards and battle altars because a trained battle mammoth isn't as vulnerable to close up infantry as a lot of other stuff (like the battle altars on chariots, etc).
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Yes but the sort of maintenance no. From what we learned of gryphons, its lifetime commitment. Either we take that AP hit a turn or someone else's got to, and the someone else's got to is the other half of the boon that makes it non-trivial request.
- Location
- Who knows?
Huh I was thinking but if we go "grab some secrets from everyone" approach I wonder if making Kupfer and the college in general spill ALL the details, including the super classified, they have on Druchi could be useful for elfcation
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Proposed wording for this:
[*] Priority requisition access to Armor of von Tarnus
So we can assume we have it for dangerous things we plan on doing, accept that we don't have it during unplanned moments of crisis, and narratively leave it available for other swordwizards to enjoy when we're heads-down on research.