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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Parabola said:
The Project could end up lasting several more years, long enough that by the end we might not feel bad about closing WEB-MAT. I really do love our boys, but between the Project and everything else I do think I don't want to create excuses to keep them onboard if there's nothing else to do.
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When we thought up WEB-MAT we already had more than the Waystone Project in mind, didn't we? There was a lot of Windherding chatter back then at least, but I think there were more ideas than that.
soulcake said:
*whistling innocently*

HAHA YEAH IMAGINE?

who's fucking stealing my notes and sharing them? When I find you—
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I have zero context for this (haven't gotten around to reading most of your stuff yet), but I sure would find it cool to see completely different Dwarves clashing.
Andres said:
I have found a good and relevant and aspirational song.
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What song was it? It's unavailable to me.
Boney said:
The backlog is not an inherent evil. The only way it ever gets completely cleaned out is if I run out of ideas for new things to add for a prolonged period of time, which seems like a bad thing for the general health of the quest.
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I think few people aspire towards an empty backlog. But personally I'd like a backlog that's rotating a bit more. See some of the older stuff, leave some of the newer stuff for the future. But that's entirely up to us voters, since we can't well tell you to come up with less interesting stuff. Also, it doesn't really apply to this turn vote, which is filled with awesome partially (I assume) due to it being kind of a Christmas present from you to all of us.

Still, I'd love to convince people to leave at least the Fire Spire books for later. They are likely to be written in Kislevite and getting a translator or reading it all from Khazalid translations written by desperate Vlag polyglots seems less poetic to me than these books being the first thing we tackle after learning a new language.
Nickan said:
[x] [X] Lord Seilph, the Mystic
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You have [X] twice. It won't be counted correctly like that.
 
Wiggy said:
Sure but you're also quoting something from 'several decades' in the timeline past when Belegar established his canon foothold, and it's been like, 15? Years in quest since we arrived at eight peaks, so even with the improved situation it's hard to say how much word or interest has spread for Azul's fancy metalworking this much earlier.
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Probably very, Azul threw enormous amount of stuff at Varr in exchange for another enormous amount of stuff flowing back from everywhere.

Rafin said:
I think few people aspire towards an empty backlog. But personally I'd like a backlog that's rotating a bit more. See some of the older stuff, leave some of the newer stuff for the future.
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That is happening thought. There are time sensitive options.
 
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Boney said:
They don't just trade with humans, they have housing and infrastructure built specifically to make humans comfortable inside the Karak itself. Outsiders are made more welcome in Karak Kadrin than in any other Dwarfholds. They import cannons from other Holds instead of relying entirely on local industry for their armaments. They make practical use of the Slayers that regularly flock to the temples there to further Karak Kadrin's goals.
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They're even more welcoming to humans than Barak Varr? I thought Barak Varr was the most cosmopolitan hold, why aren't they the hold that's most welcoming to humans given that their economy is based on trade with humans?
 
NexusEye said:
They're even more welcoming to humans than Barak Varr? I thought Barak Varr was the most cosmopolitan hold, why aren't they the hold that's most welcoming to humans given that their economy is based on trade with humans?
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Not just humans thought?
Rafin said:
It does happen often enough. But some turns it feels like it doesn't. I'd have to go back and check to see how much of my subjective feeling is based on actual facts.
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That's because there is lot more granularity than there used to be due to shift of focus and as a result the turns take longer. The last social vote way before may this year.
 
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NexusEye said:
They're even more welcoming to humans than Barak Varr? I thought Barak Varr was the most cosmopolitan hold, why aren't they the hold that's most welcoming to humans given that their economy is based on trade with humans?
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Barak Varr has a lot of different people from a lot of different places and isn't unwelcoming to them, but it's not as welcoming as Karak Kadrin is, which has a quarter carved out to human dimensions. There's a level of mild harrumphing towards humans that is normal for Dwarves that Karak Kadrin just doesn't do.
 
Rafin said:
Still, I'd love to convince people to leave at least the Fire Spire books for later. They are likely to be written in Kislevite and getting a translator or reading it all from Khazalid translations written by desperate Vlag polyglots seems less poetic to me than these books being the first thing we tackle after learning a new language.
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Apparently the Fire Spire's books are written primarily in Reikspiel, for some reason - maybe something to do with their feuding with the Ice Witches?

I imagine we'll look over it all, and if there are any written in Kislevarin they'll be noted as such and any associated bonuses won't come into play until we learn it.
 
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Rafin said:
Still, I'd love to convince people to leave at least the Fire Spire books for later. They are likely to be written in Kislevite and getting a translator or reading it all from Khazalid translations written by desperate Vlag polyglots seems less poetic to me than these books being the first thing we tackle after learning a new language.
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Happy to say that this has already been clarified!

mathymancer said:
From the update where we got those books we know it's mostly Reikspiel:
Boney said:
Concealed among those shipments is a few shelves worth of books for you to sort through at your leisure, mostly in Reikspiel with a minority in Kislevarin dialects. The distress the Vlagians referred to seems to not be any physical damage - they're actually shockingly well-preserved for their age - but a great deal of Khazalid notes in the margins that, from the brief skims you've been able to give them, would raise a great deal of questions that it is now your responsibility to not answer. You look forward to being able to carve out enough time to sort through them.
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And the Vlagian margins - which imo are the part that'll make that social turn option the most interesting - are in Khazalid.
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Edit: Ha - Mathilde'd!
 
I checked out the last 5 turns (going back to August 2022 IRL).

During Social Turn 43 we selected 5/5 new options, all of them time sensitive.
During Social Turn 42 we selected 4/5 new-ish options. Black Water Canal was technically on the books before, but had it's opening ceremony now. 2/5 were time sensitive.
During Social Turn 41 we selected 3/5 new options. Only one was arguably time sensitive.
During Social Turn 40 we selected 3/5 new-ish options. One or two were time sensitive. One could argue that it was only 2/5. Brief the Emperor was on the books for a bit already, but the description changed every turn and something significant happened regarding it on Turn 40.
During Social Turn 39 we selected 2/5 new options, both time sensitive. The Kasmir option underwent a slight rewording with us having gotten more context during the turn proper, but little about it had changed in actuality, so I didn't count it as new-ish.

In conclusion, we usually do take a couple of older options each turn. We might not be taking the oldest options, the ones we repeatedly leave for "next turn", but that is logical. Assuming an average amount of player "interest" in any option Boney comes up with, there's bound to be some on the books that are lower than most incoming options Boney presents us with, time sensitive or no. A bit sad for the minority of players who are really interested in those underdog options, but not much we can do about it other than making some kind of pact to work through older options first and somehow convincing even the lurkers and less constant participants to buy in to that. An effort which arguably would go against the spirit of Social Turns, since they are supposed to be low stakes and about voting what you personally feel like reading.

But my feeling didn't come from nowhere either. Sure, it was only two turns (three if we include how this one is shaking out) with low-to-no old options being taken, but that's an IRL time period of more than a year. The Quest structure just lends itself to things that have been happening for a mere 2-3 full turns feeling like a major trend.
 
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I'm beginning to despair we will ever take the Druchii Diplomats option and learn what they're up to. They have had years to worm their way in Laurelorn's power structures, and we simply have no idea why.
 
Andres said:
Also it looks like gold wizards are racist against elves.
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See, you made a mistake there. They were not racist against him because he's an elf, they were racist because he was – may Sigmar forgive me for uttering this word – a Marienburger.
Wiggy said:
Sure but you're also quoting something from 'several decades' in the timeline past when Belegar established his canon foothold, and it's been like, 15? Years in quest since we arrived at eight peaks, so even with the improved situation it's hard to say how much word or interest has spread for Azul's fancy metalworking this much earlier.
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Boney said that centuries of stockpiled steel ingots from Azul are flooding the market in the Empire, so the Azul steel should be well known by now. And while he didn't mentioned the worked goods, the fact that they're dwarven craftsmanship is all the reputation they should need really.
 
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I had interesting idea about Negaverse TWW DLC/FLC featuring Belegar Ironhammer (and Mathilde as his faction's Legendary Hero)

Given that Belegar's faction would be Dwarfs faction that can recruit Empire units ("Umdungi"), we can exploit fact that TWW is "rather loose" about WHF Lore and make Warboss Birdmuncha into Belegar's "rival" and give him option to recruit Skaven units ("remnants from extinct Clan Mors").

There is one "problem": Birdmuncha is rather similar "gimmick-wise" to Grom the Paunch (both of them are Food-obsessed Greenskins characters)
 
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Imperious said:
We're not talking about people in modern times though? We're talking about people living at Ulthuan.
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I was answering to a comment abaout modern times.

pucflek said:
Like I'm sure the reality is lot more complicated but like... actually building the house up to medieval standards of comfort if you have enough hands is no actual issue once you have the tools and the material and land is free except for time invested in labour.
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Yeah, building medieval house wouldn't be too hard.

But from my understanding we were talking abaout a modern house.
 
Boney said:
And yeah, there are a lot of details that Total Warhammer fleshed out. It's truly shocking how much I end up leaning on the one-sentence blurbs attached to econ buildings in Total Warhammer for fleshing out how these societies actually work. The line "Those industrious enough to claim free land for their own reap the benefits, so long as they pay tithe to the Phoenix King." that you get if you hover over the bottom-level population growth buildings for High Elves tells you more about how their society and economy works than an entire Army Book.
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Mystic Pentagram said:
But from my understanding we were talking abaout a modern house.
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We originally weren't, but some people thought we were. Things then got confusing.
 
Mystic Pentagram said:
I was answering to a comment abaout modern times.



Yeah, building medieval house wouldn't be too hard.

But from my understanding we were talking abaout a modern house.
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No. The argument started with free land being shit deal because dude you gotta build house so obviously poor people can't afford it cuz it's expensive in context of Warhammer settler elves and I was like, actually nah.

Modern house building is lot more complicated because we like our comfort and best practices, but you can build a solid log house without using so much as a nail for basically only your labour if you have tools and suddenly large stretch of land and some forest calls you master. And your labour is lot more readily available if you don't work 9 to 5 and building the house is basically part of the job requirements.
 
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DeusFerreus said:
Boney said that centuries of stockpiled steel ingots from Azul are flooding the market in the Empire, so the Azul steel should be well known by now. And while he didn't mentioned the worked goods, the fact that they're dwarven craftsmanship is all the reputation they should need really.
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There's probably greater demand for dwarven steel in the Empire than there is supply, because as much as Karaz Ankor produces, they also spend a lot.
So sudden Dwarf Hold with centuries stockpile of steel means that while the trip might be longer, you can also buy about as much as you are capable of paying for or carrying away.
 
K von Carstein said:
What I'm disappointed about is the death of Skarsnik. A goblin smart enough to rule orcs without needing the physical boosts of Grom is awesome.
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I think the death of Skarsnik in this quest was the perfect encapsulation of why Mathilde interrupting and dispelling the ritual was such a big deal. It snipped a major development of the greenskins in the bud and murdered it in the crib. And let's not forget that it wasn't free: Mathilde did that instead of contributing to the battle in any other way, and the greenskin retaliation was MASSIVE. Like, an "avalanche of orcs charging into lava pits and artillery barrages without stopping" massive. Belegar was so stunned at the line of men holding back the tide that a repeat performance later on convinced him to make them all a clan equal to any dwarven clan in Karak Eight Peaks.

Skarsnik was extremely ambitious and daring. He was taking a massive gamble and one thing went wrong and it all horribly fell apart on him, but such is greenskin society and the nature of gambling big with your life.
 
Andres said:
I think something I'm disappointed we'll never get to see is the rise of Sleek Sharpwit. He was a right bastard but he was cool and contemplative. Still, I'm quite happy that we got Qrech, who's very different to Sleek but fills the same role in the sense of a skaven contemplating their society.
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There's also eshin-friend, who helps fill in the role of a hostile skaven who is still self aware and clearly a whole person. As has been mentioned before, the way Boney has written the skaven shows the inherent tragedy of their culture: any of them, from the rat-mothers to the clanrats to the most twisted scientists moulder or skryre has to offer is a whole person. They didn't have be the way they are, and if left to their own devices likely wouldn't be.

Sleek was intelligent and contemplative, yes. How many other skaven were too, but never got a chance to show it because we didn't have books from their perspectives?
 
I feel that in TWW (if DL was Canon) Mathilde's "gimmick" (other than fact that she is Empire Wizard in Dwarfs Faction) would be about boosting Mercenary/Allied Units recruited by Belegar's faction
 
If her TWWH representation were based primarily on the Expedition and retaking of K8P, I think Mathilde's hero gimmick would be moving into enemy strongholds solo and wreaking havoc among the defending forces and/or decapitating enemy leadership, just before you fight the assault battle.

Perhaps the effect of moving her in from the campaign map is simply that she can start the battle behind enemy lines inside the walls, where you can use her to wreak havoc, but on the other hand your hero unit is not with your main force and you need to join up with her fairly swiftly- she can do a lot of damage, open gates etc but can't last forever unsupported.
 
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allmightytoaster said:
If Skaven thought that far in the name of enlightened self interest, their society would look very, very different. The Skaven reaction to seeing someone get betrayed is to say "skill issue, couldn't happen to me-me" and move on as if nothing happened.
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Eh, skaven are subjects to the same incentives as everyone else. If you aren't just taking instead of trading, it is because the other party is strong enough to make trading the more rewarding option. If they aren't, then why not just take?
 
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