Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Too late, it's already full of cats.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
He didn't seem to object to Mathilde reclaiming it for her own god though
Probably because Ranald isn't trying to take Manhavok's metaphysical turf, unlike Stromfels.
Plus Mathilde later gave money to the council of Manhorak, money that was gained in part due to Ranald's divine influence, surely that's enough to smooth any ruffled feathers.
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
Aside from this, I imagine Manhavok was quite appreciative of Ranald stepping up to deal the death blow to Stromfels' shrine that they were either unable or unwilling to accomplish when they first came into conflict with the shark.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Boney : I've seen it implied elsewhere, but does Kislev still practice slavery, and if so, in what form(s)? It's been conspicuously absent from the quest so far, but Kislev hasn't been covered in enough detail that its absence is glaring. Also, is slavery practiced in Tilea and Estalia, or is that not decided yet?
It has been asked (back when we want to Chaos Vegas for one, but also sporadically after that) before and the answer for this quest at least is no.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Discussed in the below posts.
Some quest writers have taken the concept and run with it, but there is very little textual reference to slavery in Kislev. Just the one mention in Erengrad.
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Kislev has things like penal labour, debt bondage, indentured servitude, conscription, and forced labour for prisoners of war, but so does the Empire. The details of how that actually works tends to be harsher in Kislev, but to about the same degree that everything else in Kislev is harsher. The Old World (outside of the likes of Norsca and Skavenblight) doesn't really have chattel slavery and generally has a lot less legacy of the really nasty kind of slavery than European history has due to the lack of any really meaningful Roman or Greek analogues (Remaboos don't @ me) and the Empire moved away from the taking of thralls early on to remove a major reason for the Imperial tribes to raid each other.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
Well, Realm of the Ice Queen does also say that the Hag Witches/Wise Women enslave mutants.
The real reason no one controlled Galleon's Graveyard before Count Noctilus…
The fart smell.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Sure, but they're doing that secretly, not legally.
Everybody else is under the impression the mutants are just killed.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Maybe that's still the case in-quest (and that's a big maybe), but Hag Witches are individuals, not any sort of organization - even if they were doing so openly (and that's no guarantee), I don't think we should assume it's something that all of them do.
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Not necessarily! Plenty of naval powers - Athens is the one that jumps to my own mind - staffed their oared warships with non-enslaved people, if usually ones of low socioeconomic status.
Advantages of freeman professionals rowing your galleys:
Can be trained for special maneuvers (ramming, boarding, etc)
Will maintain their own health and physical fitness
Can perform other tasks when rowing is not required
Can and will repel boarders, instead of potentially assisting them
Do not require guarding
Not a monstrosity
Advantages of slaves rowing your galleys:
Cheaper
Not reliant on volunteers
There were plenty of historical powers that only used professionals, and plenty more that used one or the other at various points based on the price and availability of professionals and slaves. The ones that exclusively used slaves tended to be the ones that had an extreme shortage of free manpower or large amounts of slaves. It's by no means a requirement.
Can be trained for special maneuvers (ramming, boarding, etc)
Will maintain their own health and physical fitness
Can perform other tasks when rowing is not required
Can and will repel boarders, instead of potentially assisting them
Do not require guarding
Not a monstrosity
Advantages of slaves rowing your galleys:
Cheaper
Not reliant on volunteers
There were plenty of historical powers that only used professionals, and plenty more that used one or the other at various points based on the price and availability of professionals and slaves. The ones that exclusively used slaves tended to be the ones that had an extreme shortage of free manpower or large amounts of slaves. It's by no means a requirement.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can't forget the in-between, the grabbing a guy off the street, bringing him aboard, and telling him that he's a sailor now, so he can either be paid for the trouble or not get paid and do the work anyway.
That method, at least, has some level of carrot rather than being all stick, and hopefully some of the press-ganged sailors decide they don't mind the gig and actually become skilled professionals. Still has the problem of some of them trying to escape the ship while at harbor, which is a small part of why all-volunteer crews are much better.
- Location
- Alaska
The one I'm most familiar with is the Ottoman navy, which used galley slaves, but there was a quick way out of slavery, where if someone converted to Islam they would be freed and get regular pay. It was also pretty meritocratic for its time. There's a bunch of stories from the 1500s/1600s of Italian sailors getting captured , converting , and becoming Ottoman captains, with two of them becoming the Grand Admiral of the Ottoman navy.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
I'm not sure any Warhammer navy would work like that though, except maybe the Vampire Coast , if people can work their way up to being made a Vampire Captain?
Occhiali - Wikipedia
Cığalazade Yusuf Sinan Pasha - Wikipedia
I'm not sure any Warhammer navy would work like that though, except maybe the Vampire Coast , if people can work their way up to being made a Vampire Captain?
This as national policy was theoretically supposed to be restricted to people who were already sailors, and its legal basis was tied to conscription as a precedent. The ideal application of this is a person that would have been going to sea aboard a civilian ship is now going to sea aboard a military ship instead, performing largely similar duties for a greater cause, and most of the time the men who experienced this were taken straight off a merchant ship. The length of the service would be for a single voyage, usually not longer than a couple of years or so, after which they could leave.
In practice there were plenty of less ideal ways all that could go down from edge cases and crisis measures and unscrupulous actors, and even in an 'ideal' application, coming home from a voyage of several years on a merchantman and getting snatched up by the navy just off the coast to go do another few years isn't what I'd call a great time. But grading on a curve I'd say the whole thing is still pretty far from being chained to an oar.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Clan Skyre musicians are now a firm part of my headcanon.
The one I'm most familiar with is the Ottoman navy, which used galley slaves, but there was a quick way out of slavery, where if someone converted to Islam they would be freed and get regular pay. It was also pretty meritocratic for its time. There's a bunch of stories from the 1500s/1600s of Italian sailors getting captured , converting , and becoming Ottoman captains, with two of them becoming the Grand Admiral of the Ottoman navy.
Occhiali - Wikipedia
Cığalazade Yusuf Sinan Pasha - Wikipedia
I'm not sure any Warhammer navy would work like that though, except maybe the Vampire Coast , if people can work their way up to being made a Vampire Captain?
Yeah, i know abaout those guys.
I had an exam at university specificaly abaout corsairs and pirates in the Mediteranean, with a particular focus on Yusuf Sinan Pasha, because our professor had a specialization on that part of history. She even wrote the textbook we used!
Very interesting.
When i studied it the first time, i was surprised how "small" the fleets actualy seemed. I always expected fleets of thousands of ships, but it was dozens for normal battles and hundreds for large battles.
Only once you realize how much material and personnel goes into building and crewing a single ship, do you really understand how impressive this seemingly small fleets were.
The Empire copied Bretonnia's homework for the Greatships, but everything below that is still very oar-based. If you mean civilian ships, the rule of thumb has always been oars for ships that will stay within adjoining seas, sails for anything that intends to cross an ocean.
- Location
- Leeds
Just because they don't use galleys doesn't mean they wouldn't install oar decks just so theres someone they can whip.