Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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For Mathilde's purposes it's fully replaced it. The Grey Battle Wizards might know a variant along the lines of the canon version, but just for reason of the sheer amount of fuckery that could be gotten up to if you could teleport others without their consent to any arbitrary point, I don't think anyone's going to be able to know both.
Try it and find out.
"It's over Nagash, I know both secrets of Dhar!"
"Who told you there were only two secrets?"
"Who told you there were only two secrets?"
"Take that Nagash, I blew up your army!"
"Yes, and now I will use all this fresh and free Dhar to simply kill and raise yours."
"Yes, and now I will use all this fresh and free Dhar to simply kill and raise yours."
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Sounds familiar.
Ahh there it is.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Personally, I'd expect the Second Secret to work against Nagash's army only on the conditional that he's not around to counterspell it. And even then, well, yes, maybe Nagash knows a Third Secret or more. Nagash is That Guy, after all - he's Him.
As for Tomb Kings, I'm given to understand that it's not just Dhar powering their armies: Liche Priests do have their own Nehekharan incantations to awaken the spirits from the Realm of Souls, which is why Tomb King armies need a Hierophant to sustain themselves - otherwise, the spirits get dragged back to that Realm.
As for Tomb Kings, I'm given to understand that it's not just Dhar powering their armies: Liche Priests do have their own Nehekharan incantations to awaken the spirits from the Realm of Souls, which is why Tomb King armies need a Hierophant to sustain themselves - otherwise, the spirits get dragged back to that Realm.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I don´t expect him to be able to counterspell it due to the way the secret itself works, but there is probably going to be a trick to it. The funniest one would be that these written down secrets are just what he elected to pass down and his own mastery of necromancy is so superlative that he actually utilizes an entirely different, hitherho unseen method.
After all, Nagash was supposed to be eternal. Why exactly would he be writing down lore he does not want to share, and why would he share his best tricks when that could give someone enough of an edge to supplant him.
EDIT: Alternatively, he uses himself as a lynchpin for the entire structure that has to be removed for you to be able to pick at it, and, well, good luck with that.
EDITv2: Or even more alternatively, we don´t believe in just how good an anti-dhar caster and wizard in general Mathilde is and she would fucking yeet him like a frisbee straight into the sun.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I could buy this one, to be honest. I'd expect it to be a straight-up contest of wills and spellcasting prowess, and it might be easier if he's distracted with something else (other wizards shooting long-range spells at him that he's forced to defend against).
- Location
- Greece
First Secret of Dhar: Dhar is inherently unstable, everyone knows that. What they don't know is how to turn Dhar against itself. You do. And now you'll never not know it.
Second Secret of Dhar: Dhar could be made more unstable. A tiny nudge in just the right way and Dhar unravels in just the right way to unravel more Dhar, and so on until nothing remains.
Second Secret of Dhar: Dhar could be made more unstable. A tiny nudge in just the right way and Dhar unravels in just the right way to unravel more Dhar, and so on until nothing remains.
I'd be entirely unsurprised with
Third Secret of Dhar: Loose Dhar can be repurposed anew by the infusion of more to start up a reaction and provide guidance.
I do not think that was ever in question, that's a description of spellcasting broadly. The problem is the necromancer who just had the Second secret used on them would have to rebind an army's worth of skeletons and zombies which takes time they cannot afford in the middle of a battle.
He did write nine books as I recall. Even if they are 90% traps that is still a lot of ink to spend if there are only two secrets and a couple dozen spells.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
It seems like the trick to really working with dhar would be to use it in ways that are not unnatural for it- which would mean somehow casting defined effects without an imposed structures on the dhar.
The unstructured stuff does not decompose, after all.
The unstructured stuff does not decompose, after all.
The Secrets of Dhar were only named as such by Vlad-by-way-of-Vanhel, right? I suspect anyone with less than or equal degrees of separation from Nagash would treat the "secrets" like you're talking about Newton's Laws; they just wouldn't see a point in educating vermin and cattle about even such extremely basic principles.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
They're prophecies, I wouldn't necessarily assume we're getting Dhar Facts out of it.
Prophecies are only part of it, there is also the stray though of everything W'Soran had when he was in a siege.
W'Soran's Big Book Of Bad Magic is the Grimoire Necronium, which is probably in the Tower of Melkhior in Ostland. The Scrolls of Zandri are the transcribed rantings of W'Soran during the lengthy siege of the city of Lahmia by the forces of Alcadizaar, the eventual fall of which drove the progenitor Vampires out of Nehekhara and into Nagash's service.
Define 'evil'.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Going to the Forest of Shadows to go kill a necromancer within his own home base (which we know is the location of a nexus), to steal his Big Book of Bad Magic... is definitely something we can do.
...I'm actually totally behind the idea, but I'm phrasing it like that to highlight the danger. I think we'd see very decent support from the idea if we use the Gambler (or the Father) while doing so, and maybe bring Johann and/or Egrimm as backup. Mathilde's a lot stronger as a wizard and as a swordswoman than she was when she took down Alkharad's college... But he still very nearly killed her. A certain level of caution is warranted.
And depending on what canon Boney's using, the master of the Tower of Melkhior is separated somewhere between one and three degrees from Nagash. Canon originally is that W'soran got ganked by his apprentice, Melkhior the Ancient, who drained him dry of blood and then ate him. Several thousand years later, Melkhior got ganked by his apprentice, Zacharias the Everliving (though in canon he does that around 2506 IC). One accounting of canon says that W'soran transmitted his spirit to Melkhior, though, so... shrug. Who knows which interpretation Boney is going for.
...Well, regardless of danger to actually assaulting the Tower, the first step is to merely scout it out from a distance, alongside the other Forest of Shadows nexuses. That part we're definitely doing no matter what, I imagine, and I will continue to support the notion of doing so as part of a Father-plan. Haletha is the goddess of Protection from the Forest of Shadows, so who knows - perhaps she'll look kindly upon us and give us a greater narrative benefit than the Gambler's. We'd be acting directly in Her interests, after all.
...I'm actually totally behind the idea, but I'm phrasing it like that to highlight the danger. I think we'd see very decent support from the idea if we use the Gambler (or the Father) while doing so, and maybe bring Johann and/or Egrimm as backup. Mathilde's a lot stronger as a wizard and as a swordswoman than she was when she took down Alkharad's college... But he still very nearly killed her. A certain level of caution is warranted.
And depending on what canon Boney's using, the master of the Tower of Melkhior is separated somewhere between one and three degrees from Nagash. Canon originally is that W'soran got ganked by his apprentice, Melkhior the Ancient, who drained him dry of blood and then ate him. Several thousand years later, Melkhior got ganked by his apprentice, Zacharias the Everliving (though in canon he does that around 2506 IC). One accounting of canon says that W'soran transmitted his spirit to Melkhior, though, so... shrug. Who knows which interpretation Boney is going for.
...Well, regardless of danger to actually assaulting the Tower, the first step is to merely scout it out from a distance, alongside the other Forest of Shadows nexuses. That part we're definitely doing no matter what, I imagine, and I will continue to support the notion of doing so as part of a Father-plan. Haletha is the goddess of Protection from the Forest of Shadows, so who knows - perhaps she'll look kindly upon us and give us a greater narrative benefit than the Gambler's. We'd be acting directly in Her interests, after all.
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13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
- Location
- Australia
Like a common skaven.
So, scared? Desperate? Being in a position where they either do horrible things or die horribly? Yeah, being turned into a Skaven would probably thrust a person into that sort of situation pretty reliably.
By my reckoning, M. is at +2 Martial and +3 Learning since the fight with A., which still leaves her solidly behind at a -3 and -5 respectively. Granted, there are new nifty tricks versus humanoid casters, but I wouldn't take any ancient necromancer lightly. We know for sure they can prep their own nifty tricks.