Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
Omegahugger said:
So what you are saying is that we should preemptively study necromancy so when the dwarfs inevitably march an army up to catch us, we can easily raise one in response?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, pretty much. It'd be useful for all the other things we'd want to keep doing, but would then have issues with because anybody seen helping us as an institution gets hit with a super-grudging for aiding and abetting, too.

We could probably get an internship in Nehekhara pretty easily at that point, though; it's not like they'd tell anybody we were hanging out at their place...

Actually, never mind, I know what I want to do now. Using ancient not-Egyptian shadow magic to summon duel monsters, here we come.
EVA-Saiyajin said:
...what?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think their implication is that a lot of people also did not want Avatar, and their reasons for not wanting it haven't changed, ergo saying that people should want to do something because they voted for avatar when they did not isn't a very good argument for some people, on the whole.
 
Karugus said:
This is potentially so up the alley of our core research projects and our eventual goals from them it hurts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It is a combination of cost , need and potential relevancy.

First consider the cost, dwarven favors would be step but another oath on top off all the other we have is very significant, specialy since is an oath to dwarves.
Then consider need, we already have one the best sourcers of information we could even hope to get, we don't need dwaven help at all and is unlikely for them to know unique secrests, and is very unlike for what they know to offers any unique insigns due to them being all blind to magic. This is one area were dwarves are particularly disadvantaged so we should't assume they possess some unique lore that would be particularly usefull.

Karugus said:
Burial rituals capable of keeping out the Skaven for thousands of years, Rites to identify whether someone has disturbed a burial, and Gunnar for all that he didn't use fancy powers to diagnose us gave an exact explanation of what actually possession is and what it entails.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Could you give a citation on the first two ? Because I was pretty sure dwarves used runes to protect their lost vaults and I don't remenber any mention of rites in thread.
 
chocolote12 said:
I think their implication is that a lot of people also did not want Avatar, and their reasons for not wanting it haven't changed, ergo saying that people should want to do something because they voted for avatar when they did not isn't a very good argument for some people, on the whole.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For my part I was mostly concerned it might be a 'divine finger-puppet mini-Ranald' sort of thing.

With the information that's come out since I feel a lot more sanguine about it.
Redshirt Army said:
I mean, I'd like to be on good terms with Gunnars for a number of practical reasons:

• He's on the Council, and being friendly with the other councillors will always be useful.
• As almost certainly the highest Piety human around, it's fairly likely Mathilde can help him with some of his own concerns.
• He's almost certainly a deft greatsword fighter, making him a source of Advanced Greatsword training.
• If we help him out, he can probably help us source a master dwarf-forged greatsword for Kragg to work with.
• He's a cool dude who really helped us out when we were in a tough spot.

He can probably also give us some help with divine magic/soul stuff before getting into sworn oath territory, too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also Boney's Deep Dark Dwarven Soul Secrets will very probably be cool to read. That's the most important thing.
 
To kind of elaborate on my thoughts of sharing the snake juice with other people is that if we do that before we've spent our own actions or our own actions + Max to assist us it comes off a lot like going to someone and asking them to do the work, with the caveat that they'd really only be able to give us supposition.

With Kragg he can give us some insight if we just take it to him, but if we can take it to him with a note book or four filled with our research on it in the form of conclusions, properties of the snake juice and what not to do to make it explode into tadpoles means we can pick his brain for even more insight. Even if that insight is him going "No you stupid umgi all these conclusions *points at a particular section* are wrong and here's why" that's quite a bit more than just "Its daemon blood, here's what I know about it" since the discussion of the conclusions would be added on top of the basic premise of "its daemon blood".

E: It also means that if we study it for a few years first and then bring it to Kragg, or Thorek because he's pretty important too, if either of them decide they want to do something with it they have our body of work they can cross reference with their own Runelore. As it goes in academia basically.

E2: If we can just make a Safety Data Sheet which tells them What Not to Do with it, that's useful for anyone handling it as an exotic and very rare substance.
 
Last edited:
BungieONI said:
To kind of elaborate on my thoughts of sharing the snake juice with other people is that if we do that before we've spent our own actions or our own actions + Max to assist us it comes off a lot like going to someone and asking them to do the work, with the caveat that they'd really only be able to give us supposition.

With Kragg he can give us some insight if we just take it to him, but if we can take it to him with a note book or four filled with our research on it in the form of conclusions, properties of the snake juice and what not to do to make it explode into tadpoles means we can pick his brain for even more insight. Even if that insight is him going "No you stupid umgi all these conclusions *points at a particular section* are wrong and here's why" that's quite a bit more than just "Its daemon blood, here's what I know about it" since the discussion of the conclusions would be added on top of the basic premise of "its daemon blood".

E: It also means that if we study it for a few years first and then bring it to Kragg, or Thorek because he's pretty important too, if either of them decide they want to do something with it they have our body of work they can cross reference with their own Runelore. As it goes in academia basically.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, doing our own study of it first is a good idea. I was just musing on his frequent reactions of exasperation with Mathilde's shenanigans, and realizing that this is another thing which would fit his general opinion of "this should have killed you, but somehow didn't. Grumble grumble grumble."
 
Lightwhispers said:
Yeah, doing our own study of it first is a good idea. I was just musing on his frequent reactions of exasperation with Mathilde's shenanigans, and realizing that this is another thing which would fit his general opinion of "this should have killed you, but somehow didn't. Grumble grumble grumble."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which is really hilarious stuff for sure and I love it when it happens! :D

Also now I have it in my head the idea of Mathilde in her fourties returning to the Empire and taking on an apprentice and being able to use that exact line in the exact tone Kragg uses to Disapprove at her wayward charge's most recent shenanigans.
 
BungieONI said:
Which is really hilarious stuff for sure and I love it when it happens! :D

Also now I have it in my head the idea of Mathilde in her fourties returning to the Empire and taking on an apprentice and being able to use that exact line in the exact tone Kragg uses to Disapprove at her wayward charge's most recent shenanigans.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Honestly, I am just waiting for a Celestial or White College journeyman to come by some Mathilde has an excuse to grumble about it like a proper Dwarf. If their is anything the Dwarves will understand it is a proper grumble about how your guild is better then that other guild!

*Picks up Ale*
"Damn fools can't do a damn thing without reading or debating about it first! Spend all your time doing nothing practical and look what I gets you! Whole colleges that can't kill a greenskin without starting a debate over what hue of green it is!"
*Proper Dwarven nods of approval*
 
masterofmadness said:
Honestly, I am just waiting for a Celestial or White College journeyman to come by some Mathilde has an excuse to grumble about it like a proper Dwarf. If their is anything the Dwarves will understand it is a proper grumble about how your guild is better then that other guild!

*Picks up Ale*
"Damn fools can't do a damn thing without reading or debating about it first! Spend all your time doing nothing practical and look what I gets you! Whole colleges that can't kill a greenskin without starting a debate over what hue of green it is!"
*Proper Dwarven nods of approval*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
God yes I'd love some inter College rivalry on screen between Mathilde and the Celestials. Its too hilarious to imagine.
 
BungieONI said:
God yes I'd love some inter College rivalry on screen between Mathilde and the Celestials. Its too hilarious to imagine.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
time for the wayback machine!
boneym said:
"Contact with the Hierophants is a lot more difficult than ringing a bell. It takes you some time to track down even a trace of an idea of where to find them, and you're eventually directed to a maze of cities in the poorer part of town. The tale you were told speaks of standing at a certain point on a street corner and turning ninety degrees in six different ways; you opt for standing near that certain point and grabbing the first person that's glowing. That person, a young lad with a stutter, is told to bring his Master out to have a chat, he agrees nervously and scampers off into the bizarre dimensional knot on the street corner. You scowl at it.

A few minutes later, the man's Master emerges and comes over. The man is utterly bald, his skin is as pure-white as his robes, and his eyes glow. He hurts to look at. "A Shadowmancer, seeking the Order of Light. It almost sounds like the start of a riddle."

"I'm here on behalf of Stirland, not the Grey Order," you reply. "We're assaulting Sylvania, and seek the assistance of the Light Wizards."

"Sylvania, hmm? Interesting." He purses his lips thoughtfully. "We're aware of the assault, and have decided our attentions are needed elsewhere. However, I am due a holiday and this does seem interesting. Tell your master that the Sunscryer will join in the fun."

By the time you've formulated a response, he's turned and disappeared into the dimensional snarl. You glare, then throw a rock at it. The rock passes through the empty air without effect, but it makes you feel better. You've wasted enough time chasing after the stupid Light Wizards too good to have a street address. It's time to return to Stirland."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
"What Mathilde did not realise was that her rock did in fact hit Jovi in the head, and caused a tiny internal haemorrhage that would go unnoticed right up until Suncryer found himself unable to control the energies he usually wielded with ease."
 
Slamu said:
Morr is the husband of Verena and father of Shallya and Myrmidia. I imagine the Estalians and Tileans venerate Morr.



Yes.



If the only thing we got out of reading the LM was a Necromancy equivilant to Waaaagghbane, I'd be down for reading the darned book. (I would expect there to be more to it than that, but even so).

@BoneyM Would a hypothetical Chaos version of Waaagghbane effect a single sub-section of the greater Chaos magical tradition (ie 'just bray shamans, just Norscan practitioners, only Lore of Slaanesh' etc) or be more difficult to obtain but effect everything under the Chaos umbrella?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is also the Father of Ravens as a god of death who is supposedly worshipped in the southern part of the empire and its southern neighbors
 
A though regarding snake juice, instead of consulting with Kragg, it might be better to consult with Thorek?

Kragg is extremely inflexible, Thorek is significantly less iirc.
 
Zenbeast said:
Don't make me start rolling dice."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
oh god.
Ranald artifact idea: a set of dice that give magical effects based on the numbers you roll. every unique combo has a different effect
If you recognize this you have no room to complain at me ::: )
a lot of work for boney, but very thematic to ranald
 
Last edited:
Horium said:
A though regarding snake juice, instead of consulting with Kragg, it might be better to consult with Thorek?

Kragg is extremely inflexible, Thorek is significantly less iirc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which is why I included Thorek yeah. I'm not sure how inflexible he is but he is another option.
 
Alright, so, there's been a lot of pushback against learning from Gunnar because of the oaths and how they bind us/can hurt us, so I figured I'd them a bit to see what the actual risks are and how we could hit them.
BoneyM said:
Always oppose all defilers of the dead, especially necromancers.
Never refuse to perform burial rites for any that perish.
Never enter or disturb a place of burial that has been blessed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay then, lets get started
1) We must always oppose defilers of the dead, umm, we're a grey wizard sworn to serve the empire. first up, when exactly wouldn't we do our damnedest to oppose necromancers? Secondly, what sorts of "defilers of the dead" would we not automatically oppose? No portion of the empire defiles the dead, the dwarves don't the elves don't, the only case I can think of is maybe something like not going after a vampire to get them to go against someone else. This is fairly easy to avoid, and generally won't trigger anyways.

2) "Never refuse to perform burial rites for any that perish." this is the one I'm seeing the most risk with, and it HIGHLY depends on how exactly its interpreted. At one extreme, it might mean we must always drop everything else we're doing in order to perform burial rites. On the other extreme, so long as we intend to do so, or would do so if we have the chance, we're good. Former is something knowing enemies could abuse, via forcing us to either perform the rites and die, or run and break oath. Later on the other hand is a non-issue, we'd pretty much already do so. @BoneyM could you please explain what exactly this oath means/the dawi would expect of us? interpretation really matters here. That said, exact/strict wording, it does not demand that we perform them, it says we never refuse to do so, so as long as we intend to do so, or are literally in able to do so without dying we'd be fine. it sounds more like "we can't choose not to perform burial rites over enemies." which is rather stupid anyways, but whatever.

3) "Never enter or disturb a place of burial that has been blessed." Again, this one depends on interpretation/strictness. Never enter taken firmly means we can't enter mausoleums/tombs/cemeteries. that said, I'm not sure how it'll be applied to things like crypts where people visit to honor/think on the dead. That said, so long as Mathilde isn't disturbing anything, I don't think its that likely to trigger on her walking into a place that is supposed to be accessible so they can speak to the dead, though it wouldn't surprise me much. @BoneyM this one also deserves some clarification.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Im against taking an oath to learn gunnars/Gazuls stuff until we know more about what it actually is. Also clear the backlog first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is perfectly fair, we've got a lot of things still in the backlog not all of which would at all benefit from Gazul's knowledge. That said, there doesn't seem to be any sort of time limit on when we could learn it.
 
cheesyme said:
@BoneyM could you please explain what exactly this oath means/the dawi would expect of us? interpretation really matters here. That said, exact/strict wording, it does not demand that we perform them, it says we never refuse to do so, so as long as we intend to do so, or are literally in able to do so without dying we'd be fine. it sounds more like "we can't choose not to perform burial rites over enemies." which is rather stupid anyways, but whatever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Burial rites 'in the field' are a short prayer over the dead and ensuring they are properly buried if it is at all practical to do so. Dwarves that die near their home Hold have a more involved process but it would also be taken care of by their Clan or by the Hold's priests. You'd also be expected to perform the same for humans or Halflings if there's no Morrites around, and it would be nice if you'd learn the Morrite prayer for them but the one to Gazul would also be suitable. Enemies of the Dwarves - greenskins, Skaven, necromancers, those who serve Chaos, and so on - are not entitled to rites.

cheesyme said:
@BoneyM this one also deserves some clarification.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To Dwarves, a tomb that's blessed is also one that's sealed. Unsealing is permitted for interring the newly dead or investigating anything that gives reason to suspect a breach. They don't visit the dead as humans do*, but for human dead, human customs would apply, so visiting them would be fine. If there's someone in there that Mathilde would need to stab, their presence would mean the blessing is no longer in place.

*Dwarves believe that it takes three days for spirits of the dead to rejoin the Ancestors, and the preferred custom is that bodies are watched over and protected by the Priests of Gazul for that time and only interred after it has passed. If that can't be done, such as when a number of Dwarves die in battle far from a Hold, you pray, bury, and hope it all works out.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top