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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
"Forty of these," you say, tapping on the schematics, "equidistant around the shore." You tap a map of the region around the Black Water. "According to the range of estimates of how much exposed warpstone there is underwater, the ambient level of magic in the water will reach an equilibrium at somewhere between a quarter to a twentieth of the current levels within a year of completion."
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That is ridiculously fast by dwarven standards for solving a major, lasting problem. Even better, it's a project they'd head and directly contribute to the construction of, so it'd feel a bit like an echo of the dwarven golden age, erecting a wonder to dramatically and permanently improve the Karaz Ankor in some way.

I imagine the runesmiths are particularly happy to be contributing to a project like that.
Boney said:
the terrors of Sylvania will be hemmed in to the woods between the Eisig and the Steinbach, a chunk of territory that measures in at perhaps a fifth of their original range.

Sylvania is, appropriately enough, already dead. There's just a lot of work left to do with axe and flame before it gets the message.
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We've come a long way. Still a decent chunk left to go, but it's a chunk that can be reduced with axe, flame, and more waystones. It's also a very limited region for any would-be necromancers to start a war or terror campaign with. Abelhelm would be seriously proud.

Boney said:
As the tendril reaches the river it almost seems to hesitate for a moment before it continues, acting with caution that was absent a moment ago, and with oozing slowness it engulfs the Waystone, energy moving to and fro as it explores this new addition to the network. Then it fades away again to almost nothing,
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"Why the fuck is this new waystone at the bottom of a river?" -Caledor Dragontamer
 
Mopman43 said:
You can put our current Waystone even somewhere without a river at all, it just makes sense to focus on rivers because you get extra benefit from it.

(Also, most people live next to rivers)

The benefit of making a non-riverine Waystone is that it would hopefully be simpler to make, but we also don't know how that would shake out until we make it.
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I personally want to design 3 more Waystone types: expensive leyline-only, expensive riverine-only, and cheap land-only.

The two expensive single-network variants because in places where only one or the other network is present, it's extra construction costs and time that aren't needed, on something we want churned out as fast as physically possible.

Meanwhile, the cheap version is for spamming out in the wilderness where they can't be defended. Rivers are where civilization gathers itself, and it's pretty hard to get at underwater Waystones anyway, so we don't need a cheap variant there.

Dynamesmouse said:
What if we grind up a warpstone into dust, and sprinkle a day's worth of absorption about a waystone?
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Waystones absorb the Winds and Dhar, not warpstone.
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
"Why the fuck is this new waystone at the bottom of a river?" -Caledor Dragontamer
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You people built another version? Do you not realise I have to spent the next months rewriting all the APIs and compatibility testing?
Deathbybunnies said:
I personally want to design 3 more Waystone types: expensive leyline-only, expensive riverine-only, and cheap land-only.

The two expensive single-network variants because in places where only one or the other network is present, it's extra construction costs and time that aren't needed, on something we want churned out as fast as physically possible.

Meanwhile, the cheap version is for spamming out in the wilderness where they can't be defended. Rivers are where civilization gathers itself, and it's pretty hard to get at underwater Waystones anyway, so we don't need a cheap variant there.
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Of note, the expensive version we have is the one that's supposed to scale with usage, as the enchantment becomes better understood and refined. So if we use it a lot, it'll get cheaper. Making another version to spam kind of goes against that.
Deathbybunnies said:
Waystones absorb the Winds and Dhar, not warpstone.
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I think the idea is that evaporation is proportional to surface area, like with physical material, and grinding it up massively increases surface area. You then rub it on the waystone so that when the phase transition is triggered (potentially by the rubbing), it gets absorbed right away.
 
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Toss a bunch of stone tablets into skavenblight detailing just how much warpstone there is on the bottom of the lake. It won't be there for long :V
 
Boney said:
With a hand on the statue's calf you bring yourself into contact with the local spur of a network that spans the world. You speak a very specific string of silences, and the eddy of magical energy causes a larger movement of magic within the Waystone, a ripple that fades away into the distance and then dies down. And though no sense you can identify can spot anything further happening - including several senses most humans lack - you know for a fact that somewhere in the world, something immensely powerful just started moving.
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I thought the update was cool, I don't really have anything to say about it that hasn't been said already but this. Is this meant to imply that Caledor has privileges over Kislev's network? Mathilde didn't mention asking the Ice Witches how to commune with the Ancient Widow, so it's probably not her. I'm surprised by that. I want to investigate Kislev's network more now.

Deathbybunnies said:
I personally want to design 3 more Waystone types: expensive leyline-only, expensive riverine-only, and cheap land-only.

The two expensive single-network variants because in places where only one or the other network is present, it's extra construction costs and time that aren't needed, on something we want churned out as fast as physically possible.

Meanwhile, the cheap version is for spamming out in the wilderness where they can't be defended. Rivers are where civilization gathers itself, and it's pretty hard to get at underwater Waystones anyway, so we don't need a cheap variant there.
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This doesn't make sense though, spending at minimum three actions on new waystone variants. What is the purpose in an expensive riverine variant? It's literally pointless. The dual transmission waystone doesn't need to be connected to leylines to work, it just needs to be in a river (and vice versa). As it stands, that is just worse compared to a variant that can be connected to the leylines. Sure, you can cut out a few components, but I don't see the purpose in the Empire. Especially because the rivers are some of the least likely places to need waystones in the Empire. Hell, why would we even produce an expensive leyline only? It's quite easy to make a cheap leyline waystone that doesn't skimp out.

Capstone: Collegiate Fascis (moderately difficult, low cost) or Stone Flower (simple, negligible cost)
Rune: Dwarven (simple, low cost)
Storage: Reverse-engineered (very difficult (lower with time), low cost)
Foundation: Grey Lord (moderately difficult, low cost) or Collegiate (simple (Hysh enchanter), low cost)
Transmission: Leyline (simple, trivial cost)

If you meant that you want to the difficulty by cutting out the Golden Age foundation, I think that's boring, but I can understand it. Also your list doesn't include a variant that Ulthuan can make, either that it or it'll cut out the Runesmiths out of the leyline variant.
 
MrHobbit said:
I thought the update was cool, I don't really have anything to say about it that hasn't been said already but this. Is this meant to imply that Caledor has privileges over Kislev's network? Mathilde didn't mention asking the Ice Witches how to commune with the Ancient Widow, so it's probably not her. I'm surprised by that. I want to investigate Kislev's network more now.
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It's almost certainly not true, but it would be funny if the Ancient Widow is just Caledor pretending to be some kind of human tribal deity out of sheer boredom. :V
 
After these three projects are over we should start seeing complexity deductions on the foundation. That's gonna be over 50 of these built.
 
We need to create a printing press. Our first creation doesn't need to be a book or anything useful. Instead, we're going to create a comic book. A comic book for the Skaven.

I know who our first superhero shall be.

 
Boney said:
As the tendril reaches the river it almost seems to hesitate for a moment before it continues, acting with caution that was absent a moment ago, and with oozing slowness it engulfs the Waystone, energy moving to and fro as it explores this new addition to the network.
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I have a strong mental image of an elf with a plumber's hat sprinting in our direction and then pausing when looking at this newfangled type of pipe.

Boney said:
Sylvania is, appropriately enough, already dead. There's just a lot of work left to do with axe and flame before it gets the message.
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This fills me with pride. Abelhelm, this one's for you.

...Do the existing Sylvanian waystones connect to the Moot's nexus, or are some of the new waystones going to have to be the points of 'rerouting' the existing ones down the rivers all the way to the Jade College?

DragonParadox said:
Good thing someone is watching Seilph, he sounds like the kind of guy who would kidnap a necromancer for study and bring them back home if left to his own devices.
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If you think about it, we also kidnapped a necromancer and brought him back home. It's just that we did so as a trophy and we just smack his skull if it tries to regenerate.

Boney said:
That's probably Turuquar, who will talk your ear off about how his plans to delve into the volcano make perfect sense if you look at all the protections he's woven. Seilph banished himself in a fit of outrage after he discovered that in the post-Sundering era, holding people accountable for the horrors they invent was something that only happened to the people on the losing side.
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Wow, that's either really principled for someone who has a lot of interest in necromancy or he's just really dramatic. Coolio.

...and I can't help but think that Turuquar being like Mathilde explains why he seemingly got along wih Johann when we did the capstone metal action.

Boney said:
Sinsystems said:
Question, would the Blackwater Waystone be feeding the magic into the general network or the Dwarven Network?
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Probably the general network, but the Dwarves involved will be looking for ways to hook it into the Dwarven one.
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Well, let's see. Presumably some of the flow could be going down the Skull River and down to Barak Varr - if the dwarfs dont want to risk direct connection via Caledor leylines, that'd be a safe-ish way of still getting more magic to their network.

But the Black Water also feeds the Aver Reach and the Blue Reach. Some of those energies could also go to the Jade College, as well. Ultimately, it's a benefit for the Karaz Ankor for the Black Water to be safe, even if that nastiness doesn't get directly repurposed.
 
BurnNote said:
Of note, the expensive version we have is the one that's supposed to scale with usage, as the enchantment becomes better understood and refined. So if we use it a lot, it'll get cheaper. Making another version to spam kind of goes against that.
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It's a specific component that gets easier to make over time, just include that component in the other models.

MrHobbit said:
This doesn't make sense though, spending at minimum three actions on new waystone variants. What is the purpose in an expensive riverine variant? It's literally pointless. The dual transmission waystone doesn't need to be connected to leylines to work, it just needs to be in a river (and vice versa). As it stands, that is just worse compared to a variant that can be connected to the leylines. Sure, you can cut out a few components, but I don't see the purpose in the Empire. Especially because the rivers are some of the least likely places to need waystones in the Empire. Hell, why would we even produce an expensive leyline only? It's quite easy to make a cheap leyline waystone that doesn't skimp out.

Capstone: Collegiate Fascis (moderately difficult, low cost) or Stone Flower (simple, negligible cost)
Rune: Dwarven (simple, low cost)
Storage: Reverse-engineered (very difficult (lower with time), low cost)
Foundation: Grey Lord (moderately difficult, low cost) or Collegiate (simple (Hysh enchanter), low cost)
Transmission: Leyline (simple, trivial cost)

If you meant that you want to the difficulty by cutting out the Golden Age foundation, I think that's boring, but I can understand it. Also your list doesn't include a variant that Ulthuan can make, either that it or it'll cut out the Runesmiths out of the leyline variant.
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The limiting factor for how fast we can cover the world in Waystones is how fast we can build them. Building versions without the extra unused functionality will result in more being built in the same period of time. The riverine component is nothing but added time and cost when placed in areas that don't have rivers, and the leyline component is the same in riverbeds not intersecting a leyline. It's only useful to have both where the two networks meet.

We also don't want a version that Ulthuan can build alone? No one polity being able to break away and go alone is a benefit, here.
 
Boney said:
This is information you're not about to share with the crowd of onlookers that assembles as soon as the town criers spread word of what you're up to. Inconvenient, but quite necessary, as the population of Praag would likely react badly to unknown foreigners performing unknown magic in the heart of their city. As it is they're keeping a safe distance despite their curiosity, most likely because the town criers made it very clear that any attempt to interfere with what was announced as 'a bolstering of the City's defences against Chaos' would be considered treason of the vilest sort.
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That description is a pretty way to justify the punishments that would be handed out - the perpetrator might not survive to receive official justice, given how much experience they have with Chaos's leftovers
Boney said:
As soon as her feet are back on the bridge, there's a momentary writhing from one of the spirits entrapped somewhere upon her person, and the water pours hurriedly off her and slinks away before something worse than mere eviction happens to it. "The weight of it sunk it good and hard into the silt," she says, "and the river knows exactly where it is. This will suit."
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I love the description of how she does magic.
Boney said:
"Forty of these," you say, tapping on the schematics, "equidistant around the shore." You tap a map of the region around the Black Water. "According to the range of estimates of how much exposed warpstone there is underwater, the ambient level of magic in the water will reach an equilibrium at somewhere between a quarter to a twentieth of the current levels within a year of completion."
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That's likely to result in a significant reduction in the population of gribblies in and around the lake. Also, I love the whole "the rest is logistics" theme the Dwarfs have about this.

--
Also, on the topic of long-term Warpstone disposal, it seems like the existing Dwarf process (seal it up behind rock) when performed in a Old Hold that is part of the Karak-Waystone network, would likely work to erode it over time. And we have many more problems with less-satisfactory solutions to pursue.
 
How does it work for an exiled High Elf to end up in Laurelorn? Was it just one of several places they would wash up, or is there a reason this colony in specific was chosen? They don't seem to share specialty or even much in common beyond their relationship to Ulthuan. Do they just invite any archmage with a rebellious enough attitude.

"Okay Ornthalas, we get it. You're a magical visionary, you have a bad relationship with Saphery, whatever. But to join our cool club you still have to dye your hair and get your older brother to lend us his ID."
 
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BurnNote said:
I don't think he has much interest in necromancy. But letting the guy who does go alone is a no go, and he's the one with the principles that mean he has to come along.
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No, Seilph is the one who is interested in necromancy, it's the other guy (Sarumar) that's his designated minder. It seem he is principled, at least in some aspects. Likely @DocMatoi had roughly the right idea:
DocMatoi said:
Ah, we love a self-defeating moral stand.
"What, you're banishing that loser and not me?!? I melted *so* many people for getting in my way and just because I wasnt shouting in favor of malekith while I was doing it I get away with it?!?!? No, fuck you, I'm going somewhere that sucks, on purpose!"
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AsuraAtlas said:
How does it work for an exiled High Elf to end up in Laurelorn? Was it just one of several places they would wash up, or is there a reason this colony in specific was chosen? They don't seem to share specialty or even much in common beyond their relationship to Ulthuan. Do they just invite any archmage with a rebellious enough attitude.

"Okay Ornthalas, we get it. You're a magical visionary, you have a bad relationship with Saphery, whatever. But to join our cool club you still have to dye your hair and get your older brother to lend us his ID."
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This was before the War of Vengeance and the colonies were abandoned.

Tor Lithenor was partially founded by the Grey Lords, who are all exiled magical researchers for one reason or another.
 
Honestly, I think that we should create a new variant of Waystone or two, but it's probably best to limit it to the leyline version. Riverine is good for dumping Dhar in the ocean, but I consider the leyline version to be more useful in general.
 
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