Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Resonant]

I feel like a lot of the reasoning for the Bridge of Death is to symbolize the push against Chaos, but it wouldn't have been possible without cooperation between the Old World, which is a lot more poignant if we placed the first Waystone in Karlsbridge.

[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town

 

[DragonParadox]

I feel like a lot of the reasoning for the Bridge of Death is to symbolize the push against Chaos, but it wouldn't have been possible without cooperation between the Old World, which is a lot more poignant if we placed the first Waystone in Karlsbridge.

[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town

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Poignant is for after you've won. When the next Everchosen lies dead on the field then we can do poignant recollections of Magnus. Right now though what we need is to inspire as many as we can to fight, to show them they can fight, that the board is no longer tilted against them.

 

[Shard]

Poignant is for after you've won. When the next Everchosen lies dead on the field then we can do poignant recollections of Magnus. Right now though what we need is to inspire as many as we can to fight, to show them they can fight, that the board is no longer tilted against them.

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First, I would like to point out that in terms of 'number of people inspired', Karlsbridge kind of wins? There's a lot more commonfolk in Pragg than one Z'ra.

Second... how exactly does the choice of the presentation connects to 'getting more people to fight the next Everchosen'? The connection, regardless of which place you select, is extremely tenuous? Like, Pragg isn't exactly going to contribute much to the next Everchosen regardless, given how the city is mostly ruins by mass.

 

[DragonParadox]

First, I would like to point out that in terms of 'number of people inspired', Karlsbridge kind of wins? There's a lot more commonfolk in Pragg than one Z'ra.

Second... how exactly does the choice of the presentation connects to 'getting more people to fight the next Everchosen'? The connection, regardless of which place you select, is extremely tenuous?

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Number of people with armies. We are not going to be beating back the horrors of the world with a Great Awakening of the world's potters, grocers and millers, nor should such a thing be expected of them.

The festering cauldron of corruption we are presently looking at was left here by the Everchosen, proving that we can erase it, not lessen, not ameliorate erase in the most direct way possible will give heart to people facing Chaos both now when we are on the offense and later when the Winds howl and the Slaves to Darkness come down from the north again. If we are skilled enough, if we are lucky enough there will not be a second Novograd sacrificed to slow the advance, the Thirteenth will be less than the Twelfth. That is the Implicit promise of cleaning up Praag, the turn of the tide.

 

[BurnNote]

If Baba Niedzwenka still recognized the modern Ungols as her people, she'd still be killing Gospodars in their name. The king she swore to is forgotten, the language she swore in is spoken by maybe a dozen or so academics, and the Gods she swore by are no longer recognizable. The Ungols of today are as alien to her as the Gospodars were when the Khan-Queens led them to war. The only motivation of hers left that anyone's been able to identify is to not be bored.

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That makes me want to adopt her as grandma even harder.

If there's one thing Memethilde like more than Competent Grumpy Old People, it's Grumpy Old People Set Apart From Those Who Should Be Their Own By Their Sheer Skill And Age.

 

[World Illusion]

[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town

 

[GrimTheMad]

That is the Implicit promise of cleaning up Praag, the turn of the tide.

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Then its a good thing we're doing that no matter what we vote for here.

 

[DragonParadox]

Then its a good thing we're doing that no matter what we vote for here.

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Oh yeah for sure, actually doing it is the most important part, but the means and the speed at which it is done will help inspire as well. This isn't a 'sit down and contemplate Magnus' kind of moment was my original point.

 

[Mellowfellow]

[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town

 

[Parabola]

If i recall correctly, In the last three hundred years, Manaan has changed because Asur talked Marienburgers into it. The carved out remains are known as Stromfels.

That about give you an idea how a god could possibly change overnight, much less in millenium long cultural evolution process?

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Yeah, we know that what happens in reality can be reflected in the Aethyr. And we know that cults can be... absorbed/eaten up/incorporated into other cults - why wouldn't that have an effect on the gods in question?

I don't know if the Stromfels thing is necessarily the case for quest-canon, but it would certainly be a good reason why the one universal scripture of the Cult of Manann is to oppose Stromfels at every turn: Stromfels' cultists claiming that he is just the True Aspect (tm) of Manann is Bad News for the people who'd rather worship a tempestuous god of the sea rather than an entirely destructive god of the sea.

 

[Mopman43]

[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town

 

[Shard]

Number of people with armies. We are not going to be beating back the horrors of the world with a Great Awakening of the world's potters, grocers and millers, nor should such a thing be expected of them.

The festering cauldron of corruption we are presently looking at was left here by the Everchosen, proving that we can erase it, not lessen, not ameliorate erase in the most direct way possible will give heart to people facing Chaos both now when we are on the offense and later when the Winds howl and the Slaves to Darkness come down from the north again. If we are skilled enough, if we are lucky enough there will not be a second Novograd sacrificed to slow the advance, the Thirteenth will be less than the Twelfth. That is the Implicit promise of cleaning up Praag, the turn of the tide.

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Oh yeah for sure, actually doing it is the most important part, but the means and the speed at which it is done will help inspire as well. This isn't a 'sit down and contemplate Magnus' kind of moment was my original point.

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Okay but like, how is this relevant to a vote about the Presentation of the project? This isn't a vote about what ingredients we're using in the cake, this isn't even a vote about what kind of frosting we put on that cake. This is vote is for how we organize that frosting into the most optimum among the possible aesthetically pleasing forms.

Simply put, this vote doesn't affect the speed nor the extent of the deployment of waystones in Pragg, nor does it actually raise armies against the next Everchosen.

 

[DragonParadox]

Okay but like, how is this relevant to a vote about the Presentation of the project? This isn't a vote about what ingredients we're using in the cake, this isn't even a vote about what kind of frosting we put on that cake. This is vote is for how we organize that frosting into the most optimum among the possible aesthetically pleasing forms.

Simply put, this vote doesn't affect the speed nor the extent of the deployment of waystones in Pragg, nor does it actually raise armies against the next Everchosen.

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Because this is the story we tell the world, humans (and elves and dwarfs) are storytellers at their core and the story of stabbing the heart of darkness will travel father and be repeated louder. Also it will just be more credible, people expect dramatic change to look dramatic. This is Grey Wizard showmanship writ large, it is also happily what's best for Praag in the long run even though the citizens to not agree.

 

[chocolote12]

The choice of our placement is the chance for a message. The bathing of Newtown in a final flame is a rebellious act. The tinder of Praag is the legacy of the Everchosen. With its ignition the smoke of dying evil will climb into the air, and signal that what the unseen masters have wrought can be unwrought -- that there is no harm they can sow that we will not eventually bring to justice.

(I would like the first new waystone to be remembered in the opening lines of one of those historical heavy metal albums.)

 

[dinomannitro6]

new Winds blowing in from the north

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to tangent off another question; what does it mean for winds to blow in from the north post-windfall? do big streams of magic still form just more rarely/more transiently? is there among all the other tendencies of the winds movements a trend of moving southwards? is it that whenever something kicks them back into the air they start moving southwards? something else i didnt think of?

 

[LurkerPrime]

to tangent off another question; what does it mean for winds to blow in from the north post-windfall? do big streams of magic still form just more rarely/more transiently? is there among all the other tendencies of the winds movements a trend of moving southwards? is it that whenever something kicks them back into the air they start moving southwards? something else i didnt think of?

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I assume it's kinda like flowing into a low pressure area. Like there is less winds to the south so the pressure tries to equalize. But the vortex keeps pumping winds back out of reality.

 

[HanChenYou]

Simply put, this vote doesn't affect the speed nor the extent of the deployment of waystones in Pragg, nor does it actually raise armies against the next Everchosen.

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Actually, it does have an effect on the rollout of the waystones.

It depends entirely on factors outside Mathilde's control and knowledge, most important being how fast the Waystones are produced, which is entirely a product on how much effort, money, and influence Boris initially and the Z'ra once it's proven put into lining up the required expertise.

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Note, that the Z'ra's trust and belief in the waystone system is going to change greatly how much effort, money, and influence he puts into it. (Or if he does at all)

If we want Boris to bankroll it by himself, we should make him happy by pushing Troll country.

If we want the Z'ra to bankroll it or contribute a large part, then we should make him happy by showing that this system can affect the worst problems on his To Do list.

 

[DocMatoi]

I assume it's kinda like flowing into a low pressure area. Like there is less winds to the south so the pressure tries to equalize. But the vortex keeps pumping winds back out of reality.

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Presumably under this model at the latitude of the Isle of the dead, the winds blow west/east

 

[fictionfan]

@Boney How close are we to actually being able to putting a specific gold value on the price of a waystone (plus shipping obviously)?

Now we might sell waystones for more then the strict production cost and likely should if we want to scale up, but having a good idea for how much investment is needed seems useful.

 

[HanChenYou]

@Boney How close are we to actually being able to putting a specific gold value on the price of a waystone (plus shipping obviously)?

Now we might sell waystones for more then the strict production cost and likely should if we want to scale up, but having a good idea for how much investment is needed seems useful.

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I think we don't even need to personally sell them.

We just help people order them, and connect them with the right suppliers.


The higher the demand (measured as from people who can actually pay to hire the expertise needed like the Z'ra), the faster this stuff will happen.

We have a product we are trying to push. We need people who both care and can pay to get this rolling

 

[fictionfan]

I think we don't even need to personally sell them.

We just help people order them, and connect them with the right suppliers.


The higher the demand (measured as from people who can actually pay to hire the expertise needed like the Z'ra), the faster this stuff will happen.

We have a product we are trying to push. We need people who both care and can pay to get this rolling

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The thing is demand is always going to outstrip supply and increasing supply gets easier the more resources we feed back into the system. We might actually end up auctioning each waystone as they come off the production line.

 

[Nimbus]

The thing is demand is always going to outstrip supply and increasing supply gets easier the more resources we feed back into the system. We might actually end up auctioning each waystone as they come off the production line.

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I have to say, the mental image I've just conjured of Mathilde as a Waystone auctioneer atop a podium surrounded by bidding members of various Order-aligned peoples (and two Skaven in a trenchcoat, because why not), if entirely implausible, is wonderful.

 

[dinomannitro6]

I assume it's kinda like flowing into a low pressure area. Like there is less winds to the south so the pressure tries to equalize. But the vortex keeps pumping winds back out of reality.

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there was a WoB at one point on how that isnt the main mechanism of movement, but i dont remember the specific phrasing or keywords so i dont know if ill be able to find it with search
(it was something like the winds arent attracted to low concentrations, and their repulsion from the other winds mostly doesnt cause geographic scale movement, so theres only a very specific band of concentration where theres enough winds to give them a significant push while also not being enough to force them into dhar)

Edit: nvm found it just by scrolling through posts with 'winds' and 'dhar' in them:

Only slightly, indirectly, and during a specific period of buildup: starting when magic levels get high enough that Winds are being pinballed off each other and out of the area completely, ending when they get so high that Dhar begins to form. Not on any scale that anyone in Kislev is likely to appreciate.

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[HanChenYou]

The thing is demand is always going to outstrip supply and increasing supply gets easier the more resources we feed back into the system. We might actually end up auctioning each waystone as they come off the production line.

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Us connecting the people with suppliers very much does feed resources and value back into the system.

Once they are connected, then it is up to them to bid high enough that they get the supplier time that they want.

If there is enough gold or political goodwill or favors chasing this, then a lot of things can happen to increase the supply.

Our product can do great things. Let's showcase these great things in a way to get the ball rolling as well as possible by showing the people who can actually pay for it, that it is something that solves their problems.

 

[Eldon]

[x] Karlsbridge and Old Town

I feel we have a lot more tools for keeping nobles in line then we do common people and so getting the people on board with supporting and defending the Waystones instead of seeing them as hucks of stone that their friends and family died to defend is important.