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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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pucflek said:
EDIT: For a dose of d´aww and/or quite nice concept art, an artist known as Inkary on deviantart had a collection of Tomb Kings and Numas nomad interacting (quite noncanon, as quite a few involved non-violent skaven and i doubt the relations between Numas nomads and Tomb Kings are quite that warm, but they still look very nice).
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If the 'Numas nomads' are the Scythans (not to be confused with Scythians), then it's pretty canon, because they literally worship the Prince that Settra put in charge of Numas as a manifestation of their God.
 
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deathofrats0808 said:
If she'd been asking the organisations that Alonza actually belonged to, MAthilde probably wouldn't have gotten much, but she didn't. She asked the Colleges and the Dwarfs, neither of whom are Inquisition organisations.

Not really? Like, I imagine that if the Colleges get someone going "I'm in x, there's a Witch Hunter poking around, what do we know about them?" they're perfectly happy to respond. They'd probably send someone out there to double check the Wizard in question isn't hiding soemthing, but the most common response if you are is probably to kill the Hunter and hope no one finds out (which is a solid strategy tbh) not ask the Collegs what their track record is.

I did say I thought that Gretel would have gotten the info much slower. And she might not have been able to draw the right conclusions, but that's all about personal skill, not organisational connections.

Not really? There's an enourmous difference between attacking one city and permanently occupying large parts of the Empire. Also, have they? I know they beseiged it once (well, Arkhan did) but he didn't actually sack the city, he just used the seige as a distraction to break in and steal a book from the vaults of the Cult of Sigmar.
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Boney said:
So now you find yourself in Barak Varr, looking into the movements of this Hunter and conferring with the local representatives of the Order of Guardians and Order of the Stone Wall to learn more about her. Normally it would be nigh impossible to get information on one Hunter from a group of others, who look out for each other as a matter of course, but between your reputation and the fact that she seems like she's out to step on some Dwarven toes, they're willing to share at least the publicly available information.
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The Dwarves asked were the Inquisition organizations that were mentioned to normally close ranks. The Colleges would've responded to Gretel but they needed initial leads to cross-check first - Mathilde looked into the Hunter's activities and background in Barak Varr before corresponding with the Colleges. If Gretel just asked the Colleges for help investigating the Hunter that's targeting her, it wouldn't really be their own effort would it? Not to mention it would be much harder for Gretel to probe around as she's both the target and supposed to be inconspicuous.

The quick and straightforward resolution to the problem hinged a lot on Mathilde's strength of connections - her stellar reputation greased the process and allowed her to setup a trap to confront Alonza directly. It both required skill and connections, not everyone would've had the right combination to easily replicate what we did.

To be able to siege and sack Altdorf, the Tomb Kings must have marched through and defeated Imperial forces through Black Fire Pass and Averland. They've got enough power projection to casually invade through Greenskin-infested Badlands, the Grey Mountains, and return back and forth - not once, but three different times. I'm quite sure they could've stuck around if they wanted to.
There is QM WoG floating around on how Altdorf has been sacked and not learning the lesson quite a few times, including that time a Grey Wizard stole that stole mummy gold which had to be thrown into Norsca, or Mira earning her Magister rank during the siege of Altdorf by the Tomb Kings.

Boney said:
"To Lady Magister Mira?"

"The one and only. Devastating woman. From what I've heard she never even made it out of Altdorf as a Journeywoman - was about to set off when the city was besieged by Tomb Kings after some trinket or another, and by the time they were rebuffed she'd made enough of a name for herself on the walls that they promoted her to Magister. Pity she keeps handing back power, she's much better suited to it."
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Retrueno said:
Personally I find the idea of dealing (and if possible actually talking) with the Tomb Lord quite interesting.
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I find the idea of talking with a Tomb Lord interesting, but this one in particular would have the problem that he'd consider a good chunk of the Empire rightfully his, so waking it up could have unintended (really bad) consequences. Not to mention that this is OOC only, for what Mathilde knows IC it could be the tomb of one of Nagash's lieutenants like Arkhan, in which case opening it would be a really, really, really bad idea when they'd be in a properly sealed place already.

If we want to talk to a Tomb King that isn't in principle opposed to the Empire and where doing so doesn't involve potentially creating a brand new threat to the forces of Civilization, we could learn High Nehekharan, go to Nehekhara (maybe with Egrimm) with the excuse of investigating the local Waystone Network, and then keep 'investigating' said Network by directly asking one of the locals.

It's certainly not assured that this would be a good idea, but we have better chances there than with whoever is buried in Gretel's basement.
 
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NuclearConsensus said:
Having reread the update I have come to a sudden realization: that scene with Gretel and Alonza would not be out of place in one of those Villainess light novels. It'd be the scene where the so-called protagonist exposes the Villainess and her misdeeds, except this time the (misunderstood or vengeful or both) villainess has turned the tables on the protagonist instead. With a little help from the cold, aloof love interest, mysterious and dangerous noble, former co-worker and all her power and connections. Probably have a title like I Shall Cut the Strings of Fate with the Scythe of Morr!: The Villainess Escapes Her Doom with Death Magic
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Not gonna lie, I would absolutely read that.
 
While I too would being interested in conversing cordially with undead Nehekharans, I would like to point out that there is also the problem of reminding them of the tremendous wealth they entrusted to the vaults of Vala-Azril-Ungol in ages past that Belegar liquidated/seized/appropriated. I don't know that I'd want to risk calling that kind of heat down on Belegar's head (and indeed our own).

Edit: Objection mostly withdrawn per below:
Ergosum said:
Don't worry, we're probably in the clear about that:
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I'd forgotten about that; this thread is very big.
 
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Ergosum said:
I find the idea of talking with a Tomb Lord interesting, but this one in particular would have the problem that he'd consider a good chunk of the Empire rightfully his, so waking it up could have unintended (really bad) consequences. Not to mention that this is OOC only, for what Mathilde knows IC it could be the tomb of one of Nagash's lieutenants like Arkhan, in which case opening it would be a really, really, really bad idea when they'd be in a properly sealed place already.
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Also he has stuffed beardless dwarfs in his collection. Grudges... All of the Grudges.
 
GrimTheMad said:
I trust in Mathilde's 27 intrigue to not just blurt out potentially catastrophic secrets, personally.

This is already a secret that she's keeping, she's not gonna be inviting them up to her penthouse to look at her coin collection.
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But if when we want to barter and buy tomb king shinies, they're obviously not going to take empire gold, we'll be froced to use or coin-collection, which might lea to unfortunate questions.

This is clearly an existential threat and definetly going to happen which we need to plan for right now, even going as far as elaying elfcation for this
 
Verthack said:
But if when we want to barter and buy tomb king shinies, they're obviously not going to take empire gold, we'll be froced to use or coin-collection, which might lea to unfortunate questions.

This is clearly an existential threat and definetly going to happen which we need to plan for right now, even going as far as elaying elfcation for this
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Why would they not take Empire Gold? They like gold, it is shinny and goes on statues.
 
Verthack said:
But if when we want to barter and buy tomb king shinies, they're obviously not going to take empire gold, we'll be froced to use or coin-collection, which might lea to unfortunate questions.

This is clearly an existential threat and definetly going to happen which we need to plan for right now, even going as far as elaying elfcation for this
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The coin collection is a "one of each" type of thing.

Belegar had most of it smelted down.

It's not worth much at face value. It's only priceless to a Numismatist.
 
Resonant said:
The Dwarves asked were the Inquisition organizations that were mentioned to normally close ranks. The Colleges would've responded to Gretel but they needed initial leads to cross-check first - Mathilde looked into the Hunter's activities and background in Barak Varr before corresponding with the Colleges. If Gretel just asked the Colleges for help investigating the Hunter that's targeting her, it wouldn't really be their own effort would it? Not to mention it would be much harder for Gretel to probe around as she's both the target and supposed to be inconspicuous.

The quick and straightforward resolution to the problem hinged a lot on Mathilde's strength of connections - her stellar reputation greased the process and allowed her to setup a trap to confront Alonza directly. It both required skill and connections, not everyone would've had the right combination to easily replicate what we did.

To be able to siege and sack Altdorf, the Tomb Kings must have marched through and defeated Imperial forces through Black Fire Pass and Averland. They've got enough power projection to casually invade through Greenskin-infested Badlands, the Grey Mountains, and return back and forth - not once, but three different times. I'm quite sure they could've stuck around if they wanted to.
There is QM WoG floating around on how Altdorf has been sacked and not learning the lesson quite a few times, including that time a Grey Wizard stole that stole mummy gold which had to be thrown into Norsca, or Mira earning her Magister rank during the siege of Altdorf by the Tomb Kings.
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Fair point on the Dwarf orders. No they didn't? The Colleges presumably had the info about her and who she'd sent to Altdorf. All they would have needed was her name. The Dwarfen records would've made it a lot easier, btu I don't think they were necessary for actually finding the info (although whether one would think to ask is a different question).

What do you mean their own effort? Asking the Colleges is literally what Mathilde did. Askign Mathilde for help is what Gretel did.

Gretel is only supposed to be concealing the fact she's being supported by Barak Varr, not that she exists, is a Collegiate Journeywoman and is in the area. And as I said, I really doubt the Colleges mind someone asking about a hunter who's investigating them is something the Colleges see as a problem.

Sure, her connections helped. I just deny that Mathilde's reputation was the hinge on which this succeeded or failed.

Or they could have taken ship and marched over the Wasteland. Or come through Helmgart. Or just taken the extra time to cross the mountains, becasue they're undead and don't need food or feel the cold. And even besides that, marching somewhere is deeply, deeply different from permanently occupying it.

Altdorf has been besieged a bunch. It's been sacked a number of times. I just don't recall a specified three times by Tomb Kings. The one Mira was in was almost certainly the seige by Arkhan, whose army never actually got in to the city (admittedly, because he didn't care enough, not because it was incapable of doing so).
 
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Heavygenium said:
"Did I mention Mathilde has dealings with the current Countess Van Hal of Stirland, and before his death, was a close associate of her father, the previous Count of Stirland?"

"Going after a Van Hal and then his daughter after his death, too? Does this woman know no bounds??"
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What was Kazador's line? "Hmm. Kazok, Kazgal and Kazgrom like tall women. I wonder if she likes bearded lads? Sure, they say that manlings and Dwarves can't have children, but have any of them actually tried?"

"Three Karak Azul Princes? When does she find the time? Oh, 'prospect for three ores simultaneously' oh my!"
 
Valarauko said:
While I too would being interested in conversing cordially with undead Nehekharans, I would like to point out that there is also the problem of reminding them of the tremendous wealth they entrusted to the vaults of Vala-Azril-Ungol in ages past that Belegar liquidated/seized/appropriated. I don't know that I'd want to risk calling that kind of heat down on Belegar's head (and indeed our own).
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Don't worry, we're probably in the clear about that:

Boney said:
The Tomb Kings get quite astonishingly touchy about the wealth they were buried with, but wealth deposited in foreign banks by the living doesn't have the same conceptual importance.
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I'm actually more interested in visiting Nehekhara than I am going on the Elfcation; it seems to me like the Elfcation would be fighting almost the whole way through, whereas Nehekhara could be more of a research/trading/maybe a little bit of fighting deal.
 
Resonant said:
To be able to siege and sack Altdorf, the Tomb Kings must have marched through and defeated Imperial forces through Black Fire Pass and Averland. Not once, but three different times. There is QM WoG floating around on how Altdorf has been sacked and not learning the lesson quite a few times, including that time a Grey Wizard stole that stole mummy gold which had to be thrown into Norsca, or Mira earning her Lord Magister rank during the siege of Altdorf by the Tomb Kings.
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The Tomb Kings are also known for their navy. They could have come through Marienburg too. There might not have been a sack of Marienburg done by the Tomb Kings, but they should only really need to fight their way through the river.

Raiding is also incredibly different than conquering. When you raid, you don't need to worry about subjugating the territory you move through. The Tomb Kings also don't need supply lines in the same way as more fleshy armies would.
 
Ergosum said:
I find the idea of talking with a Tomb Lord interesting, but this one in particular would have the problem that he'd consider a good chunk of the Empire rightfully his, so waking it up could have unintended (really bad) consequences. Not to mention that this is OOC only, for what Mathilde knows IC it could be the tomb of one of Nagash's lieutenants like Arkhan, in which case opening it would be a really, really, really bad idea when they'd be in a properly sealed place already.

If we want to talk to a Tomb King that isn't in principle opposed to the Empire and where doing so doesn't involve potentially creating a brand new threat to the forces of Civilization, we could learn High Nehekharan, go to Nehekhara (maybe with Egrimm) with the excuse of investigating the local Waystone Network, and then keep 'investigating' said Network by directly asking one of the locals.

It's certainly not assured that this would be a good idea, but we have better chances there than with whoever is buried in Gretel's basement.
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Thing is, he's a person who can potentially be persuaded to change his mind. He has various priorities, one of which is studying magic, one of which is fighting Chaos, and one of which is defeating Nagash. It may be possible to convince him that they're higher priority than conquering the southern Empire, and quite possibly are either incompatible or would be made much harder by trying to do so.

Just because he wants something doesn't mean he has to actually do anything about it.

This Tomb King is particularly interesting because he's a magical scholar in a way most others aren't.
 
GrimTheMad said:
Mathilde: You'll have the Colleges' full cooperation in keeping this threat sealed away.

The thread: let's crack that bitch open
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Remember when we were worried we'd have to hold back the guy in charge of the Wastes expedition from investigating a cursed Karak, and we instead formulated 193 hypothesis and died inside when we were forced to turn back after mere cursory investigation?
 
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