I was pretty sure the waystone project was never going to succeed but well here we are. I mostly want to save the dawi so we can use them to help hold another hold. Or find out what's going out with the god and Beastmen. While Dum is corrupted (maybe) he was also several incidents of gods who were fair and carrying god.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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- He
Would the inhabitants of Dum want to leave their hold and if they did, would they be accepted by the greater Karak Anzor? I feel that the answer to both of those questions is no.
For the first, Borek said that the young know no other world and don't see what's so wrong with things as they are, and the old are too ashamed and broken of what they've done. And for the second, well, vipers being clutched to your chest and all that.
Probably not everyone would want to leave or know what to do. There are however some things I believe would encourage people to want to leave. First the traditional ratio of men to women for dawi is 2-1. So the majority of dawi males in the hold would not have a wife. Second without trade opportunities I see wealth being concentrated and no real social or financial mobility. Third they are surround by chaos and you can see dhar outside the hold.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The ratio of men to women is actually 3-1, three quarters of dwarven births are male while one quarter is female.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
They might not be accepted by other holds at this point.
Borek didn't exactly go into details but it certainly seemed like he was saying that the Dwarfs of Dum were being altered, either physically or metaphysically.
If the younger generations are all mutants or similar, they wouldn't be welcome in the rest of the Karaz Ankor.
Worse, they have forsaken the ancestor gods, so even if your a youngster who's willing to leave, willing to swear to the ancestor gods again you will always carry the stigma of being the same grade as the fire dwarfs.
How much of that is the population of Karak Norn increasing versus the average population of the established Holds crashing from up to millions to the low tens of thousands?
That's definitely a factor. The largest Young Holds are each about a tenth the size of a medium-sized Old Hold during the Golden Age.
- Location
- Australia
WFRP 4e: Winds of Magic, page 125, Wild Kin of Zandox from the Lore of Death
In-universe, there's probably some myth or weird magical event that led to Shyish getting purple shadow hounds. Out of universe, it's just 1e weirdness carried into 4e. However, it did give me a thought to if it's possible to use Ghur techniques on Shyish, and similar setups for other winds? Like how you can waterbend fire to make lightning. 4e's one windherder spell did involve four wizards sharing their secrets with one another, so it might even be plausible.
I mean, going by DL canon then this is clearly just Gehenna's Golden Hounds but with the Dark Hounds bound with Shyish rather than Chamon, right? Dark Hounds are also invisible, so this spell is even more obvious about its origins than Gehenna's.WFRP 4e: Winds of Magic, page 125, Wild Kin of Zandox from the Lore of Death
In-universe, there's probably some myth or weird magical event that led to Shyish getting purple shadow hounds. Out of universe, it's just 1e weirdness carried into 4e. However, it did give me a thought to if it's possible to use Ghur techniques on Shyish, and similar setups for other winds? Like how you can waterbend fire to make lightning. 4e's one windherder spell did involve four wizards sharing their secrets with one another, so it might even be plausible.
Hunting hounds(Or wolfs) are actually a pretty common Psychopomp in a lot of cultures. I don't see how it would be weird for Shyish to have one.WFRP 4e: Winds of Magic, page 125, Wild Kin of Zandox from the Lore of Death
In-universe, there's probably some myth or weird magical event that led to Shyish getting purple shadow hounds. Out of universe, it's just 1e weirdness carried into 4e. However, it did give me a thought to if it's possible to use Ghur techniques on Shyish, and similar setups for other winds? Like how you can waterbend fire to make lightning. 4e's one windherder spell did involve four wizards sharing their secrets with one another, so it might even be plausible.
- Location
- Australia
Hence me thinking some myth might be involved, because by itself, Dog Summoning Jutsu is more something you'd expect from Ghur than Shyish.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Pedantry: lightning isn't an application of waterbending to firebending, it's a pure firebending discipline. Lightning redirection is an application of waterbending principles to firebending, developed by Iroh during his "hunh, maybe the way I was raised doesn't have all the answers" period.
going to be honest, it took me a second to remember that parchment at this time was mostly animal skin, and so didn't, in fact, grow on trees.[/spoiler]
We actually do not know the situation in Karak Dum well. All we can do is speculate for now. They may have not have forsaken the ancestor gods, they may or may not be mutants. I do not see the dawi changing too much because they are a very traditional people. Power is still flowing south so they are still helping the Karak Ankor and powering the runes. I would like to go back and find out what the situation is. Because Mathilde loves the dawi people and saving more of them would be in character for her I feel.
Borek knows the situation in Karag Dum well though. He told us what the situation in Karag Dum was. He also has experienced Dwarf culture for far longer than Mathilde. There is no saving Karag Dum. Boney described their alliance with the Shadowgave as only slightly less bad than outright worshiping Chaos. Borek also said those dwarves's souls had been forged into weapons of spite against the Chaos Gods.
Even assuming Mathilde can get to Karag Dum, it would be rather difficult to convince them to let her in. Even assuming they let her in, it would be rather difficult for Mathilde to solve their problem. Even assuming that Mathilde possesses the capability to solve their problem, it would be nigh impossible to convince them to let her do it. Do you see all the very unlikely assumptions I had to make before we even got to the possibility of doing anything about it? There is an incredible amount of risk to visiting Karag Dum and not a lot of reward to be had.
Double pedantry: I don't think we know for sure. There's at minimum one guy/gal every generation that knows about both, and before the fire nation got genocidal, I imagine there were more benders talking to other benders about bending. So it's not impossible that insight from another element (or spirit bending, since it's described in terms of yin/yang) were used to develop it. And then once the fire nation got nationalistic, they'd scrub the source (not necessarily even consciously, of course this high level technique is purely firebending).
Well there is one other thing we could attempt to do in Dum attempt to rob them blind of magical lore, but alas I think runemasters are liable to be as paranoid as regular runelords when it comes to writing anything down. So still not worth it.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
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- He
Yeah, and that's not even counting the heretical, exotic and completely unknown magical tradition they may have developed. Trying to infiltrate a Karak of paranoid dwarves with unknown magic is unwise to say the least.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Deceiver: How Do You Do Fellow Runemasters?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
That just makes them believe that we believe that we are a Runemaster.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Remember the unconvincing nature of the original meme. And our Skaven adaptation of it here.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Bold/underlined numbering added by me.
So, I agree that the time for saving Dum is long past. But I feel the need to point out that we knew how to credibly overcome issues 1. and 3. at the time - I should know, since I proposed them during the vote, but lost. We had the option to convince cor-dum to allow us to the door the same way we convinced vlag to eventually open up: kick the asses of some people attacking the karak while wearing the protector so its magic casts our defense in the best light to everyone there, beast herd and cor-dum included.
Convincing the dawi inside to let us try to help would have been feasible primarily because of Borek, because he knows us and by this point saw us save Vlag. Can anyone argue that he'd turn down the hope we might pull that hat trick a second time? It's no guarantee that he'd convince the rest of the karak, but it's a damn good pitch coming from one of the karak's own.
That would just leave issue 2: whether or not we were capable helping if allowed to try. Borek's tale after going slayer more or less confirmed my thesis from back then, but we'll probably never know if there was anything we could do beyond that. Perhaps the best we could do was evacuate some children and leave the rest to their grim task.
Now that borek and the expedition have left though, my one weird trick has no legs. Unless something extraordinary changes, there's nothing we can do about Dum.
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You say this but we didn't actually convince Karak Vlag to let us in: that was Thorgrim and outsiders are still forbidden from entering the Karak the last time Mathilde visited. Let alone convince them to let us mess with their souls or the defenses of their Karak. Sure, they were in the Realm of Chaos, not "merely" the Chaos Wastes. Sure, Borek would be able to verify our reliability. But this is still an incredible stretch. Borek didn't want to share what happened to Karag Dum with the Karaz Ankor. If he was interested in getting Mathilde's help he would have explained to her. Borek certainly told Karag Dum how he got there and there was no action from Karag Dum to indicate they were interested in talking. That explanation would have included Karak Vlag too. If they were interested in talking, they would have sent a delegation out.
They did not. Therefore, the odds of even getting in Karag Dum were minuscule at best. We could try something similar to this, by bringing Borek up there. But I consider the chance of getting him to agree to that to be similarly low as getting Karag Dum to let Mathilde in.