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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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The Imperium will syncretise the emperor with just about anything that isn't blatantly chaos. I was just reading the first Eisenhorn book. The first world featured in it is noted to worship their sun as an avatar of the emperor and this is noted as being a well known form of worship.
 
Wiggy said:
Huh, neat. Kinda surprising to see the imperial cult being actually pragmatic about things and gradually altering the culture instead of going full grimdark convert or burn, but hey.
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The satire of it is, I think, that at the point you run across that section of the lore you expect cultural genocide to be the over-the-top pastiche most of the Imperium embodies. And instead you go "Huh, it's just forced assimilation. The space nazis consider that so effective at wiping out indigenous culture that they're happy to use it in lieu of the flamer-and-sword. But we had those policies here recently ourselves and...umm, wait..."
 
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FallenPears said:
snip literally started choking on my drink a bit
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It started amusing then became funny, then hilarious, then kept on getting.even.better.
Thank you.

----
Hey. Hey. Boney.

I'm not actually asking you what would be needed to make this happen, I just want you to know that I want a canal through the neck. also gunpoweder. to Cathay.
 
After first contact and pacifying the planet, the preachers would initially just say that the Emperor, seeing the plight of the Mallusians, sent a piece of himself to be incarnated into their world and save them from Chaos and Feral Orks. Other than that, no big changes into the Cult of Sigmar's doctrine, they just force everyone to acknowledge that Sigmar and the Big E are one and the same, with violence if necessary.

Then, once a few generations are born and raised believing that and nobody even remembers a time when Sigmar wasn't the Emperor, they start subtly shifting things around. Actually, Sigmar was never born, he was an Avatar of the Emperor who descended from the heavens. He didn't get his hammer from the dwarfs, oh no, it's a divine weapon, not something cobbled together by Squat Abhumans. Ulric and the other gods, whose worshippers have all been converted into worshipping Sigmar by now, get quietly removed from any mention.

As soon as that state of affairs has been normalized, they start with the next phase: scrubbing out Sigmar as a historical figure, and turning him into pure legend and mythology. Sure, the locals will still tell their children about that time he smote Orks with his fiery hammer and so on, but where did that happen? When did that happen? That'll all quietly disappear from records. They'll also start blending it with the official mythology of the Imperial Cult, like that Sigmar had nine sons who battled nine arch-daemons of Chaos and so on.

The fourth and final phase will be standardizing the local church with the wider Ecclesiarchy, until all that will remain is a funny local translation for the word "Emperor" and a higher predilection for hammer iconography than most sects.
 
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Ok, so the current plant is to absorb sigmar into the empire cult and quietly dispose of him. My only question is: will we have problems whit the inquisition for our hat? I am sure as hell not giving it back.
 
Eisenhelm said:
Ok, so the current plant is to absorb sigmar into the empire cult and quietly dispose of him. My only question is: will we have problems whit the inquisition for our hat? I am sure as hell not giving it back.
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Pretty sure Mathilde would have far bigger issues being what's clearly an unsanctioned psyker than from any choices in headwear.
 
The big problem I see with the assimilation of the empire is that if the empire of man landed on Mallus they would inevitably meet the frogs... And that would probably end with an attempted exterminatus.
 
Eisenhelm said:
We also have a bit of a sore spot whit brettonia for not joining when they could.
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Ngl, for me it's less that they didn't join, and more how they went about it.

When we were deciding where to base the project:
Our Grey colleagues: "Here's a list of pros and cons for places nearby. Can't win them all, but you'll be in a different position depending on where you go."
Laurelorn: "Oh sure, we'd be glad to house you! A great old library would be yours to peruse, and millennia old elf scientists will help you out! Sadly, this all would be hard to arrange if you choose a different place..."
Boris: "Push back Chaos? I'll move mountains to make it so! Although I don't think you'll care much about helping Kislev if you base the project away from the frontline. Nobody does."
Bretonnia: "One of the Fay Enchantress's most trusted helpers will give you pointers. But if you decide to base your project elsewhere, we're not sure our hearts will recover from being snubbed so </3"

like cmon

later on, when most people we asked to join went "That's a troublesome thing you're asking for. I'd need some of my own troubles dealt with before I can help you" and Mathilde was like "okay what's your price" and that was that, the Bretonnians she talked to did a weird social dance, and then said something to the effect of "we don't feel like helping you. on unrelated note, there's something we don't need help with because we're so chivalrous" and like the subtext was the exact same, in both cases, but it just feels so obnoxious. Idk if it's just me.

TL;DR: Bretonnians didn't refuse to do anything, they offered the same general kinda deals as everyone else (and Mathilde had no trouble at all parsing what they meant), but the way they phrased things was grating to me and that's why I don't want them in the project.
 
Right now I just don't feel like doing anything for bretonnia is worth it. We have elf batman breathing down our necks going "i am here because we see the worth of your project and want a slice of that, so what do you want in exchange?" so when before we had to bargain whit people to join our club, now even the magic capital of the world need to pay the price of admition, bretonnia just seems as small potatoes and retroactively we were right in that they were not worth the trouble.
 
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LadyLynn said:
I'd say part of what the Canal Boon is purchasing is trust.

Even if this use of the boon is beneficial to Kislev, part of that benefit comes from relying on the Empire - the trade benefits, greater ease of sending military aid to Kislev, etc.

It's possible for it to be rational for Kislev to not do this on its own(because of not having enough trust in the Empire yet), despite it actually being in Kislev's best interests.
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I really like it's argument. It's a lot more persuasive than "Boris just doesn't know what's good for him".

Parabola said:
It was also a dwarven-led work, so there was probably more focus on safety and reliability than on speed.
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I believe that dwarves are as quick as they are safe.
 
Eisenhelm said:
bretonnia just seems as small potatoes and retroactively we were right in that they were not worth the trouble.
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It's impossible to prove a counterfactual, but I expect that if we had spent the AP to bring them on board, they'd have proven at least as useful as the Light College or the Ice Witches. Even the Hedgewise as, while Aksel's provided new options on several R&D actions, the limitations on them have been such that we've usually found a better tool for the job.

We didn't, so we can't know, but the damsels have as deep a tradition of magic as most of our contributors so it seems kinda like Aesop's fox to declare "those grapes were sour anyway" because we didn't pay for their service. Their ask wasn't even that big compared to, say, the Light College's, which got a whole adventure turn.
 
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Woltaire said:
where that map someone in thread made of the waystone network in the old world having trouble finding it
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forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

I've added the new nexuses to my Waystone map. As before, the main network is red, lost nexuses and links are purple, Kislev is white and the Karaz Ankor is blue. Dashed lines are used for speculative links. Ulthuan (red): 1. Nuln 2. Altdorf 3. Marienburg 4. Fort Solace 5. Couronne 6...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com
 
We just didn't go out of our way to bring in Bretonnia. We didn't go out of our way to bring in Kislev either, we just happened to get their token after chasing a down the unrest in Ostermark, which was itself a favour to the Jades. It was a two birds one stone kind of thing. All other participants were people that either we or the grey college had existing connections to leverage.

We had no history with Bretonnia, so they wanted something that needed more time dedication. Not enough reason to be dismissive of them, imo. Similarly, not enough reason to make a stance against inviting them again if we ever turn our attention that way, or allowing them if they ask to join, but no reason to go out of our way to do it either.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
It's impossible to prove a counterfactual, but I expect that if we had spent the AP to bring them on board, they'd have proven at least as useful as the Light College or the Ice Witches. Even the Hedgewise as, while Aksel's provided new options on several R&D actions, the limitations on them have been such that we've usually found a better option.

We didn't, so we can't know, but the damsels have as deep a tradition of magic as most of our contributors so it seems kinda like Aesop's fox to declare "those grapes were sour anyway" because we didn't pay for their service. Their ask wasn't even that big compared to, say, the Light College's, which got a whole adventure turn.
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Gavin Prince said:
Aesop's fox to declare "those grapes were sour anyway"
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Yep, "we didn't need them from the start" is factual, meanwhile "we would be worse off had gone out of our way to take them in" is conjecture but that still colors how I see them; at present they don't seem to be worth the trouble of even incorporating into the already existing dinamic of the project if they chose to request admission unless they bring something substantial to the table.
 
Curtains said:
We had no history with Bretonnia, so they wanted something that needed more time dedication. Not enough reason to be dismissive of them, imo. Similarly, not enough reason to make a stance against inviting them again if we ever turn our attention that way, or allowing them if they ask to join, but no reason to go out of our way to do it either.
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It might not have even been that much more time dedication.

It's hard to say because we didn't do it, but if we'd hypothetically found the Iron Orcs in a single AP, then that'd be the same time dedication we spent on the Jades and Lights.

I think the thing that conditioned the thread against them is that they were the only faction that didn't want to commit full support without seeing results first.
 
So one thing that springs to mind in terms of what Bretonia might offer is that of all the races they are the most likely to have some means communicating with Athel Loren in a way that isn't arrow fire.

Like don't get me wrong it is 100% anything like a diplomat, but considering how many Leylines go through that forest any communication might help.
 
Maybe we should consider bringing in Bretonia next turn. Since we have Ukthuan being brought in we can bring in Bretonia and debrief both of them. Than use their knowledge the turn after next to build a more complete Waystone before elfaction.
 
Mopman43 said:
I think the thing that conditioned the thread against them is that they were the only faction that didn't want to commit full support without seeing results first.
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Also that they were indirect and face-saving about their request. The thread has demonstrated a preference over and over for blunt directness when it comes to diplomacy. I think if they'd come straight out and said "Please, we need your help", in those words, there'd be a damsel in the Projects bi-annual meetings.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
Also that they were indirect and face-saving about their request. The thread has demonstrated a preference over and over for blunt directness when it comes to diplomacy. I think if they'd come straight out and said "Please, we need your help", in those words, there'd be a damsel in the Projects bi-annual meetings.
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That was only the meeting about basing the project.

The Damsel at the wedding was much more explicit in the terms.
 
Nurgle said:
Maybe we should consider bringing in Bretonia next turn. Since we have Ukthuan being brought in we can bring in Bretonia and debrief both of them. Than use their knowledge the turn after next to build a more complete Waystone before elfaction.
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We're waiting a turn or two so we have a working Waystone to show off first. That way they'll be willing to pay more to get in on the Project.

Although, with that day looming ever-closer, it does raise the question of what we're actually going to ask them for. Cooperation with their magical tradition is a given, but we're expecting to be able to ask for more.

I'm sure there'll be a [Payday] option for them too, but what else might we want to ask Bretonnia for, on behalf of the Project's existing membership?
 
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picklepikkl said:
s2g if it turns out all we needed to say in Anoqeyan was "I am the Waystone administrator, my voice is my passport, verify me" I am throwing a tomato at the QM
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On one hand, there's a trend for simple solutions to prevail. Something that will make everyone groan, but yet is incredibly in hindsight. Since well, lotta waystones to maintain and all.

On the other hand, Sapherian Archmages and Loremasters with too much time on their hand.

So who knows?
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I'm sure there'll be a [Payday] option for them too, but what else might we want to ask Bretonnia for, on behalf of the Project's existing membership?
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Tbh, I think [Payday] is probably the way to go for Bretonnia. The alternative would have to be something that's collectively useful for the entire spread of project members, and I can't think of anything that would fit other than Project assistance that we no longer need. Individual prizes for each of the polities, sure, but that's what [Payday] is.
 
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