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Come to think of it, we probably should have told the Grey College what we were going to do before doing it regarding apparitions. It's a lot more believable as 'not demons' that way. Having not done that, let's not show up with a bunch of them bolted onto our soul.
 
If we do end up with a whispering darkness based spells, I want the cataclysm variant. Canonical cataclysm spells include turning skeletons into almost chaos warriors and tomb guard into almost chosen, teleporting entire armies and summoning 14 (which translates to two full units at TotalWarhammer scale) grave guard and a wight king.

Being able to throw out cataclysm spells outside of a storm of magic would be incredible.
You wouldn't be able to use the cataclysm spell without a storm of magic, regardless of whether it's apparition based or not.
 
Come to think of it, we probably should have told the Grey College what we were going to do before doing it regarding apparitions. It's a lot more believable as 'not demons' that way. Having not done that, let's not show up with a bunch of them bolted onto our soul.
Mah, the grey college should have an inkling what the rest is doing. Generally I doubt the other colleges are ignorant of the apparations, they just don't openly talk about it because then they need to do an investigation and maybe do a statement to the emperor or the elector counts and it's all much easier if you just don't.

Like we know the lights get tasked with checking the golds every few years and I doubt the grey's aren't involved.
 
I'm not sure the Drycha battle is a great argument for "we might suddenly need proper battle magic!"

Yes there was a sudden, unplanned massive battle. And Mathilde...used her social skills/political connections and personalized logistics spells (Rite of Way) to assemble the battle wizards (Ice Mages) and auxiliary forces (Boris' Crew) required. And during the battle itself used her specialized sneaking and assassination skills to gank the stealth specialist and commander of the opposing side. Even if we had Pit of Shades, I think I would've voted for the canoncial Drycha 'Spy v Spy ' hunt versus trying to be artillery.



The argument was that we don't know when or under what circumstances a battle can happen.

This time Mathilde's connections and her personal BM spell saved the day. In another circumstance a different BM spell may be a better fit and if Mathilde doesn't know it she can't cast it.

Come to think of it, we probably should have told the Grey College what we were going to do before doing it regarding apparitions. It's a lot more believable as 'not demons' that way. Having not done that, let's not show up with a bunch of them bolted onto our soul.

And miss surprising Algard?
 
"Mathilde, I'm just having this chat with you because some of your peers are concerned about some of your experiments with dark magic."

"Do you mean the demonology thing or the necromancy thing, because I swear, I have good explanations for both of those."

"..."

"Oooh, you meant the waystone thing. Yeah, no, that's cool, Dragomas has already signed off on it, nothing to worry about there. I've even got a Priest of the Goddess of Dark Magic helping me and everything."
 
There is no way in hell that when the Empire is at war, a big enough war to call for all hands on deck like this, that they're letting Mathilde take a Battle Wizard and fuck off for a month. Hell, I'd be surprised if they'd be ok with her leaving for a month on her own.

Given the way things worked when we were campaigning to clear Sylvania, I disagree.

Plus the gap between "there are armies coming" and "the empire's armies are assembled and on location" is exactly when I think we'd do the learning.

Armies move what, 10-12 miles a day, at the high end?

The problem is that we don't know when we'll need battlemagic.

Going after the Necromancy College, the huge, two day Caldera battles and the Drycha raid happened spontaneously with Mathilde engaging immediately. There wasn't any sort of 'do you want to learn a new spell?' prep-time available.

And our existing skillets were perfectly capable of dealing with those, as I believe they are going to be perfectly capable of dealing with situations in the future. We didn't need new tools.

If there's (somehow) a surprise army out of nowhere that we have to fight? Well then, we've already got battlemagic we can use.


This comes back around to not wanting to take real risks to reduce imaginary risks.
 
You wouldn't be able to use the cataclysm spell without a storm of magic, regardless of whether it's apparition based or not.
We might be able to if it's a Fog spell and a spell we created. That's the real draw of the Staff of Mistery. (I think I remember it being said that) Cataclysm -> Battle Magic is a category downshift just like Battle Magic -> Not battle magic is.

Digging our fingers into the highest expressions of power is also the only way to, well, dig into the highest powers. It's not a guarantee of +1 magic or anything, but being able to knock out a cataclysmic spell any time we wanted to, if we really wanted to, is about what I'd imagine a 10 in that score would look like anyways, so I'd consider the difference academic.
 
Given the way things worked when we were campaigning to clear Sylvania, I disagree.

Plus the gap between "there are armies coming" and "the empire's armies are assembled and on location" is exactly when I think we'd do the learning.

Armies move what, 10-12 miles a day, at the high end?
Armies are slow, sure, but consider how Mathilde was when on the K8P expedition or the Dum one. She couldn't just do whatever. I'd expect that to be even more so in a situation where the Empire is full on going to war. The Sylvania cmapaign I think was the outlier here, because Abelhelm had a lot (arguably too much) trust in Mathilde, and so just let her do whatever, believing it would be fine.

We might be able to if it's a Fog spell and a spell we created. That's the real draw of the Staff of Mistery. (I think I remember it being said that) Cataclysm -> Battle Magic is a category downshift just like Battle Magic -> Not battle magic is.

Digging our fingers into the highest expressions of power is also the only way to, well, dig into the highest powers. It's not a guarantee of +1 magic or anything, but being able to knock out a cataclysmic spell any time we wanted to, if we really wanted to, is about what I'd imagine a 10 in that score would look like anyways, so I'd consider the difference academic.
It's not definitely a downgrade. We got:
Try it and find out.
 
Armies move what, 10-12 miles a day, at the high end?
I personally think those travel days will be even worse for finding a teacher. Because the wizards kinda have to travel with the army to stop chaos cultists from doing some weird ritual and wiping out the state troops. Someone needs to be magical protection and that falls to either the priests or the wizards and I believe it will be both.
 
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
[X] [NUMBER] Trio
[X] [NUMBER] Lance

For the simple reason that with this and Smoke and Mirrors, a Grey Wizard can throw an unstoppable charge at an enemy unit, get a free teleport and make a one-woman pincer charge.

Yes, it requires said Grey Wizard to be a capable frontline combatant as well, but we know of at least two members of the Grey College who appreciate big swords.
 
I do think it would be worth it to try a directed band of whispering fogs. Having an option for extremely discriminatory mass murder on a scale of battalions would probably be worth the effort. Hell, we might even get lucky and have it just be high tier battle magic
 
Hmmm, before going for bands of stuff stuck to our soul, let's run this spell by the grey college and see if we get approval. Also, I'd like to get more insight about what whispering fog acts like if possible (either from the Jades or from the Eonir. I really want to bond the whispering darkness, but also I want to be more sure about what we want. Also, I don't want to be burned at the stake.
 
Hmmm, before going for bands of stuff stuck to our soul, let's run this spell by the grey college and see if we get approval. Also, I'd like to get more insight about what whispering fog acts like if possible (either from the Jades or from the Eonir. I really want to bond the whispering darkness, but also I want to be more sure about what we want. Also, I don't want to be burned at the stake.
I'd imagine we'll see his reaction when we Codify it, which I expect is definitely happening before we try binding another one.
 
I personally think those travel days will be even worse for finding a teacher. Because the wizards kinda have to travel with the army to stop chaos cultists from doing some weird ritual and wiping out the state troops. Someone needs to be magical protection and that falls to either the priests or the wizards and I believe it will be both.

Another thing to consider is that when an Everchosen starts rolling into town, every cult, beastman herd, greenskin tribe, Skaven clan, and undead horror is going to come crawling out of the woodwork and start lighting thousands of fires across the Empire. Even if we don't fight the Everchosen directly, there's going to be something we need to put down the hard way, and every wizard in the colleges will be busy doing the same.
 
I would like to remind everyone that Mathilde is already capable of three distinct pieces of battle magic. Now, two of those are fair to disregard since Shadowstep and RoW are a bit nonstandard, but I feel like some of you are either forgetting that MMM exists or are treating it as if it wasn't just as battle-changing and terrifying as shit like Pendulum.

Even if Mathilde ends up fighting the Everchosen War as a regular BM, rather than doing some protagonist shit, she could totally be pulling her weight on MMM alone.
I think this is an extremely good point. If Mathilde ended up in a war tomorrow, she already knows two very powerful Battle Magics: RoW is fantastic for strategic and tactical maneuvering, and MMM is an amazing debuff skill. Even with just these two spells, Mathilde can have a huge effect on a battlefield and during a larger war. Not to mention that she casts them both at an upscaled level above what they'd be cast as standard:
Staff of Mistery: +1 Magic, spells that create mists, fogs, vapours and miasmas are one category easier and have enhanced effects.
If we're really determined to give Mathilde a full suite of BM spells, she's already got three categories covered: Utility with RoW, enemy debuff with MMM, and assassination with herself. What she's missing is a unit attack spell and a friendly buff spell. (Perhaps Fog Kill and my own Warriors of Fog?) If Mathilde creates two more Mist-y BM spells, I think that would give her a full suite of options comparable to any other Battle Mage.

How's that for a concrete goal to aim for?
 
Honestly speaking, another reason I would prefer Whisper based BM is because Cloudkill, as far as I remember, had been "grandfathered in", and does not actually fall under Warrior of the Fog spell making trait. So, having now an option for something that has not been grandfathered and actually follows the system, I would prefer it.
 
What happens to any bound apparitions when a wizard dies? Do they go on a rampage? Do they simply disappear?

Do we have any knowledge on this from gold wizards who have known golden hounds dying?
 
What happens to any bound apparitions when a wizard dies? Do they go on a rampage? Do they simply disappear?

Do we have any knowledge on this from gold wizards who have known golden hounds dying?
I believe Boney said that some Gold Wizards believe that they take the apparitions with them when they die (with some welcoming it and some removing them before death if possible) so I imagine they disappear either way. Into wherever Apparitions came from I suppose.
 
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