Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
Man, considering how contentious it was to get Apparition Binding into a plan two turns ago, the thread now seems remarkably on board with doing it again. Still contested, certainly not a majority, but more support than I'd expected.

This binding went unreasonably well roll-wise and is no guarantee at all that a follow-up would see similar success. Getting the Rider caught, bound, and trained in one action wasn't even bandied about as a serious possibility going into it.

I think even the most ardent supporters were thinking it'd likely be at least 2AP and possibly 3, and I'd expect that again if hunting a Whispering Darkness wins a plan vote. Especially if the goal is multiple Apparitions for a Battle Magic spell, which we know from this update is basically guaranteed to need multiple capture AP.
 
Last edited:
Glau said:
And when we've got evidence that isn't just player opinion or paranoia, I'll change my vote as described.

We don't yet. We might soon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ehh, the Everchosen going wherever the Protagonist is feels like a pretty safe bet, even that is non-kayfabe reasoning. Boney might have a sufficiently heavy cease of QM-itis that he will risk that cool arc by rolling a die for targeting, but I think that's unlikely.
 
Tobtorp said:
You make a lot of assumptions for someone who almost wants proof of everyone else. Mathilde might not actually march with the empire but helps coordinate dwarf and empire movements, maybe she gets send out to ask other players about their movements, she is the only one with a gyrocopter to facilitate movement, or we get sent to deal with some of the advances moving warbands or chaos cults popping up. The everchosen doesn't just mean one big army, it also means every chaos cult doing stuff to disrupt.
And for the other teachers? They have their own ap to do stuff with so do not assume they can offer their time as easily either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This might not be clear if you weren't actually following the discussions, but I was laying out conditions for when I'm willing to vote to learn more battle magic. This puts me in the enviable position of being able to lay out my assumptions as assumptions, while demanding actual evidence that my conditions have been satisfied.

Given the visibility and speed of armies, we will (almost certainly) have a vote on both where we are going to be and what we are going to do beforehand. If you think facilitation or coordination is more important then, you are welcome to vote for it.
 
Glau said:
Well, yeah, I am assuming that. In the event of a mass mobilization I expect us to stop with WEBMAT and research actions, which really will free up a lot of AP for things that support the upcoming war, like learning battle magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which Mathilde will of course have to do in the middle of a war camp, away from all her equipment, books and safety devices except a grounding rod (assuming she hasn't given it away as some people in the thread have suggested she do).
 
Glau said:
Well, yeah, I am assuming that. In the event of a mass mobilization I expect us to stop with WEBMAT and research actions, which really will free up a lot of AP for things that support the upcoming war, like learning battle magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
One thing to consider about WEB-MAT is that the requirement for making an action fit under it is the expectation for the employee to receive credit on either a paper or "something Deed-worthy" as a result.

An Everchosen War comes with a bunch of opportunities for doing something Deed-worthy that might make 'killiness training' fit as prep.
 
Last edited:
I'm all for binding a second Rider and trying to use it for Charge or Duel at some point in the future. Bodyguard is very useful, but there is something to be said about being able to fire-and-forget.

Duel or Charge could essentially let Mathilde focus on a second thing. She could set a Rider onto an enemy spellcaster or general force while she goes to kill a softer target, cast Melkoth's on something else, or if it's outside combat, to cause a big commotion while she goes and steals some loot.

The biggest obstacle, as ever, would be AP. We got lucky here in the rolls thus far, and it's not guaranteed that we will get that lucky again. We don't quite know how many actions this whole process would take without crits, but presumably, it'd be at least 2, even just for the one Rider.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The Chief Battlewizard, Rector of the Grey College, the Supreme Commander of all who wield Ulgu, who has trained three generations of battlewizards, who's age is somewhere in the triple digits, somehow does not know the two most famous battlemagics available to him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's a "no" then. You are just assuming it, though it is a well-supported assumption.

You could have just said that.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The Chief Battlewizard, Rector of the Grey College, the Supreme Commander of all who wield Ulgu, who has trained three generations of battlewizards, who's age is somewhere in the triple digits, somehow does not know the two most famous battlemagics available to him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course he does not know them.
Haven't you heard, knowing Battle Magic is a death sentence, Melkoth would never have been able to reach his old age if he knew any battle magic except what he personally created. :V
 
Last edited:
Parabola said:
The biggest obstacle, as ever, would be AP. We got lucky here in the rolls thus far, and it's not guaranteed that we will get that lucky again. We don't quite know how many actions this whole process would take without crits, but presumably, it'd be at least 2, even just for the one Rider.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't know. Finding and binding one Rider should probably be one AP unless you fail (and then need to reattempt the entire action). After all presumably you either find it or you don't, either subdue it or don't, and then bind it or don't. I don't really see a kind of half and half fail state here. If you need more than one Rider, you could get 2/3 or something, but for one on one I think it would be one AP to catch it, even without crits (assuming you can succeed without crits, if you can't there are bigger problems than the number of AP the attempt takes).
 
Parabola said:
I'm all for binding a second Rider and trying to use it for Charge or Duel at some point in the future. Bodyguard is very useful, but there is something to be said about being able to fire-and-forget.

Duel or Charge could essentially let Mathilde focus on a second thing. She could set a Rider onto an enemy spellcaster or general force while she goes to kill a softer target, cast Melkoth's on something else, or if it's outside combat, to cause a big commotion while she goes and steals some loot.

The biggest obstacle, as ever, would be AP. We got lucky here in the rolls thus far, and it's not guaranteed that we will get that lucky again. We don't quite know how many actions this whole process would take without crits, but presumably, it'd be at least 2, even just for the one Rider.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A counterpoint: capturing and binding a Rider in Red might be easier the second time around, because we've already done it before, and thus know what to do.

The mechanics seem to even somewhat support this, seeing as binding 2 more knights to this particular spell would only require one additional action, binding 5 more would take two actions, and binding 9 more would take three. Though that obviously doesn't factor in the fact that we'd be doing something different with them once we've bound them.
 
It is probably easier now to bind more riders because we don't need to invent the spell while holding the apparation hostage. So just knock it down (out?) And then apply the spell.
The finding might be roll dependent though so who knows how that will go.
 
LadyLynn said:
A counterpoint: capturing and binding a Rider in Red might be easier the second time around, because we've already done it before, and thus know what to do.

The mechanics seem to even somewhat support this, seeing as binding 2 more knights to this particular spell would only require one additional action, binding 5 more would take two actions, and binding 9 more would take three. Though that obviously doesn't factor in the fact that we'd be doing something different with them once we've bound them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Seems like 3 apparitions per AP, yeah, but I'd assume that's because we'd be using this particular framework that we rolled well on. Different goal, different framework.

I also think it's reasonable to say that binding more apparitions becomes more difficult the more of them you have, because you're contesting your willpower against an increasing number of opposed willpowers, and there's only so much room in one soul to put it all.
 
Considering Magnus managed to reform the Empire and Teclis managed to found the colleges in the leadup to the last war against Chaos, I do think "we'll have at least a couple of turns to prepare before being punted to the front lines" is a pretty safe assumption.

And if not- well, Mathilde is entirely capable of being very useful to any war effort as is. Likely in ways that Pit of Shades wouldn't be terribly helpful with- as there are a good couple dozen Ulgu Battlewizards and only one Mathilde, I imagine she would be doing Mathilde things, rather than purely Battlewizard things.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Which Mathilde will of course have to do in the middle of a war camp, away from all her equipment, books and safety devices except a grounding rod (assuming she hasn't given it away as some people in the thread have suggested she do).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Why would we do that?

We've got a gyrocopter that can carry multiple people, no reason to do training in a war camp instead of the colleges. We aren't limited by geography the way others are.
 
But, like, apparations, or, specifically, Whispers allow us to make a Pit of Shades that might be safe for us to use. And, like, no situation is perfect, having a potentially safe to use Pit of Shades analogue would make situations like Kul encampment or Orc infiltration fail far safer.
 
cody said:
[x] [NUMBER] One

I want the order's entry into apparitions to be as easy and smooth as possible. I don't want apparition binding to be something people think fundamentally must be for only the strongest Battle Wizards. I want as many people optimizing bindings as possible.

I'm hoping for a paradigm shift in the medium to long term, where apparition binding can be used to fill the gaps in the capabilities of beings stuck with one wind.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is my favorite argument for one, and I think it's solidly convinced me. I want to come up with a mist based deployment mechanism anyway. And honestly if we get this as sub battle magic going for another apparition to do a mist based spell makes a lot of sense in terms of broadening college awareness.
 
GrimTheMad said:
Considering Magnus managed to reform the Empire and Teclis managed to found the colleges in the leadup to the last war against Chaos, I do think "we'll have at least a couple of turns to prepare before being punted to the front lines" is a pretty safe assumption.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Incorrect. Magnus rallied the Empire, yes, but the actual reforms took place after the war. Similarily, while Teclis and Co were able to muster the empire's magic users and teach them basic battle magic, actual founding of the Colleges took place after the war.

And again, you assume that we will have time to spare immidiately prior to a major war.
 
Glau said:
Why would we do that?

We've got a gyrocopter that can carry multiple people, no reason to do training in a war camp instead of the colleges. We aren't limited by geography the way others are.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is no way in hell that when the Empire is at war, a big enough war to call for all hands on deck like this, that they're letting Mathilde take a Battle Wizard and fuck off for a month. Hell, I'd be surprised if they'd be ok with her leaving for a month on her own.
 
I don't think it is safe to assume that we decide to go to a battlefield, instead of battlefield coming to us.
Sometimes shit just happens.
 
Glau said:
Ok, but 'adds flexibility' really isn't worth the cost to me. Or rather, it's trading off real costs for hypothetical benefits.

If we are going to be in a situation where more battlemagic is useful, I'll vote to learn it then. Until then, however, I'd much prefer to do other things with our AP.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The problem is that we don't know when we'll need battlemagic.

Going after the Necromancy College, the huge, two day Caldera battles and the Drycha raid happened spontaneously with Mathilde engaging immediately. There wasn't any sort of 'do you want to learn a new spell?' prep-time available.
 
If we do end up with a whispering darkness based spells, I want the cataclysm variant. Canonical cataclysm spells include turning skeletons into almost chaos warriors and tomb guard into almost chosen, teleporting entire armies and summoning 14 (which translates to two full units at TotalWarhammer scale) grave guard and a wight king.

Being able to throw out cataclysm spells outside of a storm of magic would be incredible.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure the Drycha battle is a great argument for "we might suddenly need proper battle magic!"

Yes there was a sudden, unplanned massive battle. And Mathilde...used her social skills/political connections and personalized logistics spells (Rite of Way) to assemble the battle wizards (Ice Mages) and auxiliary forces (Boris' Crew) required. And during the battle itself used her specialized sneaking and assassination skills to gank the stealth specialist and commander of the opposing side. Even if we had Pit of Shades, I think I would've voted for the canoncial Drycha 'Spy v Spy ' hunt versus trying to be artillery.
 
DOOMPOTATO said:
If we do end up with a whispering darkness based spells, I want the cataclysm variant. Canonical cataclysm spells include turning skeletons into almost chaos warriors and tomb guard into almost chosen, teleporting entire armies and summoning 14 (which translates to two full units at TotalWarhammer scale) grave guard and a wight king.

Being able to throw out cataclysm spells outside of a storm of magic would be incredible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Personally for a cataclysm spell I'd like not to use apparation, somehow that cheapens it for me. I want a work of magic totally of our own, not powered by a warp entity or somesuch.
(This is very much a personal bias just to clarify)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top