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A horse bodyguard is really, really good at crowd control, which deals with out big problem of being mobbed by a lot of goons.
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement.

The Rider doesn't have a stat block that I can find, but it basically has one attack, right? He's a knight-type guy on horseback; without something like the Charge command, can you say one guy with a sword is good at crowd control?
 
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement.

The Rider doesn't have a stat block that I can find, but it basically has one attack, right? He's a knight-type guy on horseback; without something like the Charge command, can you say one guy with a sword is good at crowd control?
We have Boney saying so, and I've linked it before:
For bodyguard
Kitty would be better at locking down specific combatants, since again tackle and maul
But Horse is better at running around and breaking apart groups, warding groups of opponents away from Mathilde as they circle protectively around her and strafe

The difference is nearby crowd control vs distance crowd control.
 
The thing is literally called Gehena's Golden Hounds, I do not think the option of not mentioning the maker in the mane would make it seem any less suspicious.

I do, we were told college wizards naming themselves after figures of antiquity is not unusual, the default assumption would be they got the spell from Teclis, as the colleges got a huge proportion of all their lore. There's no need to try and sell the idea when it would be the natural assumption. The idea that the modern Gehenna was trying some misdirection play doesn't really scan to me frankly.
 
I do, we were told college wizards naming themselves after figures of antiquity is not unusual, the default assumption would be they got the spell from Teclis, as the colleges got a huge proportion of all their lore. There's no need to try and sell the idea when it would be the natural assumption. The idea that the modern Gehenna was trying some misdirection play doesn't really scan to me frankly.

Except then you start looking into the guts of the thing and it starts scoring an 8/10 on the chisel-hand-o-meter. I think at that point having set up 'elf Gehena' makes sense as opposed to counting on the assumption to carry the load. In any case since we might get either Teclis or another Archmage here soon we can just ask them IC. It would be no kind of secret to them.
 
Except then you start looking into the guts of the thing and it starts scoring an 8/10 on the chisel-hand-o-meter. I think at that point having set up 'elf Gehena' makes sense as opposed to counting on the assumption to carry the load. In any case since we might get either Teclis or another Archmage here soon we can just ask them IC. It would be no kind of secret to them.

I didn't really find your explanation of why no elves would normally do it all that compelling either to be honest. So that doesn't really move the needle for me.
 
I mean, Elf Gehenna could have been really desperate after getting an arcane mark to do rather reckless things, or something.
 
I mean, Elf Gehenna could have been really desperate after getting an arcane mark to do rather reckless things, or something.

Sure, but for the spell to be passed on many archmages would have to learn the thing and attach permanent Gold magic tethers to their souls, including Teclis, it is not like even he can teach a spell he does not know. I do not think he would do anything that might imperial his ability to perform high magic and neither would most of his peers.
 
So on the subject of the Duel usage of the spell, with the word of boney that if the Rider is destroyed we just need to recast the spell to summon it again barring special shenanigans, it just became a lot more useful.

I mean think about it, you can cast it to sic a Rider on a specific dude and then forget about it while focusing on other things. Then if the Rider is killed you just cast it again and send it after the same guy.

Assuming that we get the difficulty down that is very useful and also hilarious as an enemy character is tied down having to duel with a terminator knight who goes "I'll be back" if killed.
 
Big list of Apparitions:

Minor additions: The Ambers are presumed to use the Eyes of Nurgle, possibly for the battlemagic spell "Flock of Doom" and maybe also the moderately complicated spell "Crows Feast", and the Jades are presumed to use the Whispering Darkness for the "Dwellers Bellow" battlemagic.

This hasn't actually been confirmed, but rather Gehenna's guesses as to what they were using.

The Rider doesn't have a stat block that I can find, but it basically has one attack, right? He's a knight-type guy on horseback; without something like the Charge command, can you say one guy with a sword is good at crowd control?

Some police officers are trained to ride horses for crowd control, and often you'll only see one or two of them unless the crowd is really big.
 
Idea for a spell name for one/bodyguard: Dämmerlichtreiter's Liege
The spell would cause it to act like Mathilde protecting Abelhelm, making the spellcaster into it's liege.
But it also sounds like Dämmerlichtreiter's leash, and it is a spell of binding a Dämmerlichtreiter : p
 
I'd imagine that if we do manage to get the difficulty down to Fiendish that a system will be developed to acquire them for the Magisters, since they suddenly are very useful and it would be something a lot of Grey Wizards would want to have.
 
Big list of Apparitions:

Apparition Name​
Magic Targeted​
Form​
Notes​
Spells that use them
Black EssenceDark (Dhar?), Necromancy, Foul RitualsPools of darkness coming from other people
Bleak Swarm, the (In Quest Name)Dark, Ghyran, Shyish, NurgleFlies with human headsMaybe actually a demon of Nurgle?LM Gehenna thinks these are used by the Ambers for Crows Feast and Flock of Doom.
Dark HoundsAqshy, destructive spells (magic that harms another?)A big hound
Gehenna's Golden Hounds
Fat Man, theSlaanesh, 'Selfish' spellcastingA fat naked manSeems like an actual demon of Slaanesh
Handmaidens, theChamon, Azyr, Spells of transmutation and fortuneHumaniod, leaves 'iron' nails in victims
Lost ChildUlgu, Chaos, Deceptive MagicA child that pours a river of blood from its mouth
MalbrothaxNurgle, despair, diseaseMight not be canon, was from 1e.
Seems like a single named demon.
Riders in Red
Aqshy, destructive magic (magic that harms another)
Some fighter on horseback, laughing (out of joy apparently)We got one in our soulWhatever we are creating now.
RotwyrmsGhyran, Shyish, spells that affect the fleshGiant maggotCan go through physical barriers like the ground
Whispering Darkness, theNecromancy, Chaos, Hedge, spells affecting intelligence or psychologyOily fog of blackness.Is a fog, staff might affect it.LM Gehenna thinks these are used by the Jades for Dweller's Below.
Wisdom's Asp
(In quest name)
Hysh, Ulgu, Ghur, Illusion spellsSnake with thorns.Haunted us, has AV blood, can have cults around one.

Any help would be appreciated if I missed stuff. I know I missed some of the spells we are reasonably certain about, but I can't be bothered to look it up today.
Maybe include a section for their typical activity when spotted? For instance, the Rotwyrms wriggle towards their prey and go through walls, while the Fat Man just looks super creepy and is always eating something. This information might be useful because it lets us know what kind of activities we can have an easy time getting them to do.

( The Rotwyrms would also be an astounding 'kill that wizard in particular' spell, though I'd recommend never letting them choose their own targets. Intangibility and fast speeds mean that they can scoot towards their targets through any obstacle and just bite them until dead, and it's awfully hard to perform spell gestures when an awful insect is trying to get your fingers into its mandibles.

An attack spell that will definitely kill its target eventually unless defeated with magic is pretty useful. Well, unless the worm can get tired or go out of range or something, I guess. )
 
So with Abhorsen's list of apparitions there I went to look at Alkharad's old telepresence spell.
[Week 1 observations: Learning, 65+26+10(Windsage)=101]

As Roswita rides out to personally settle some dispute about the recent sale of parts of the Hunter's Hills, your parallel journey upon your Shadowsteed leads you to exactly what you're looking for. You hone in on the foul smell/feel/taste of necromancy just as it begins to gather, and watch from a safe distance as what appears to be no more than a smear of foul magic floating in midair expands into the silhouette of what looks like a withered corpse dressed in the puffy trousers and waistcoat that would have been fashionable for an Altdorf noble in the Time of the Three Emperors. The ability to transform into mist is one that the less reliable books ascribed to Vampires, and you'd assumed it was a misunderstanding of the ones that wield Ulgu rather than the necromancy they were known for, but it seems there's more to it. You stalk the silhouette as it beelines through the scrub, passing unimpeded through thorned bushes and leaving a trail of wilting branches and dead leaves.

Your Aethyric Armour renders you as immune to the thorns as the silhouette's incorporeality does, and you leave your Shadowsteed behind as you follow the trail into the cave that the bushes concealed, taking a moment to wrap yourself in Substance of Shadow as you leave the sunlight. And just in time too, as the first alarmed bat flies through your incorporeal form and out into the sunlight, panicked by the intruder. You do your best to ignore the stream of other bats doing the same as you push through the cave until it opens up into an open chamber, and the cause of the bats' alarm is clear as the silhouette moves with clearly unnatural speed, flitting around the chamber and jabbing fingers of Dhar into the largest specimens.

[-snip-]

[Week 2 observations: Learning, 97+26+10(Windsage)+10(previous crit)=143]

A second attempt unfolds as Roswita rides to Siegfriedhof, and once more you're able to witness the entire process from start to finish. Though it is obligingly shrouded in shadows, Hunger Wood is not home to any wholesome wildlife, and instead a lurking pack of ghouls are slain one by one by the apparition, and once more the twisted lesson unfolds. With their twisted forms already home to Dhar, ghouls are both more receptive to necromancy but also less predictable in their responses to it. As you watch the beasts rise back to their feet and have their muscles begin to bulge with unnatural energies, you frown to yourself in thought. The bats were barely a threat, but ghouls were nasty enemies even without the benefit of necromantic empowerment, their teeth and claws practically guaranteeing infection from the slightest wound. You resolve to intervene, and watch closely until the most precarious moment and then interrupt with the slightest jolt of Ulgu, which disperses within moments of its work being done.

"Doina," the voice scolds as the ghoul that was rising to its feet shudders as Dhar runs rampant through it. "I know you know better than that. What just happened?" Whatever answer the apparition gets, it doesn't satisfy it, and it reaches out and squeezes the unlife from one of the previously-raised ghouls in frustration. "Just put a rag over it until it stops bleeding! Next up, let's go." Another well-timed nudge, another spell tears itself free of its owner's control. "Ionuţ! Someone check the chart, I'm sure he's on his last chance." One of the ghouls crumples, presumably as its controller abandons it to consult said chart. "That's what I thought. Hold him down- I said hold him! If I have to come over there myself-" The rest of the reanimated ghouls crumple and the silhouette shrinks back in on itself, and as soon as it is reduced to the size of a fist, it shoots off into the sky, heading east.


[Week 3 observations: Learning, 50+26+10(Windsage)+50(previous crits)=136]

Perhaps he'd grown suspicious, perhaps he was merely fortunate, but the third manifestation of Alkharad was shrouded in the lingering energies of a recent battlefield. But knowing exactly what to look for means that even if you didn't catch it at first, by the time the stag had been reanimated and the group had moved on to the other deer, you were watching. The apparition is carefully watching each corpse as it reanimates, but a handful of deer don't merit you risking your observations, so you let the lesson unfold without any interruptions, confirming the mental notes you'd previously taken and pay closer attentions to the process of empowerment that the creatures undergo. Part of you winces at the thought of adding another paper to the to-do list, but as far as you know these capabilities are unknown to the Empire.
Bolding some relevant sections and cutting others. Mathilde outright calls it an apparition, but I suspect that's as much a turn phrase as technical term. It's still possible the spell is not a bound apparition, but I'm going to assume for the purpose of this inquiry that it is.

Being made of necromancy means can't be the Whispering Darkness or Black Essence, and beyond that being a humanoid silhouette seems like something that could be consistent with a Handmaiden, Malbrothax, Lost Child, or Fat Man. Of them the Handmaiden seems like the best fit: Not overly large or small as a child or fat man would bit, or in the questionable situation of Malbrothax.

The apparition form talks, but so can the Rider in Red, it seems: It's just that apparitions normally have nothing much to say. Also noteworthy is that the vampire is capable of wielding magic and engaging in combat through that spell.

It's appearance would also place a date on when Alkharad made the spell: Since I'm getting the understanding that an apparition's form is a core part of the spell and can't easily be updated later, it having the appearance of of a Time of Three Emperors noble would imply that was when the spell was crafted. Alkharad himself might be older, but this part of his research would be fairly recent in the scheme of things.

Also something relevant that came up in the same update while looking over the spell:

You'd grown familiar enough with the sensation that it requires no actual attention on your part to notice the final manifestation of Alkharad, and the final lesson you witness adds an unexpected twist as the Vampire walks his students through the process of splitting their attention between two corpses at once. One day, that could prove a dangerous ability, but as you watch the ravens stagger about and attempt again and again to take wing, you're fairly confident that today is not that day. Alkharad eventually tires of the spectacle, instructs his students to release their hold on their second raven, and once more a necromantic flock takes wing to give the Outriders some practice. You've seen enough. Time to start investigating the other side of these events.
It's iffy whether a technique of necromancy would apply to a Directed version of an apparition spell, but not out there given that it seems to be as much an exercise in personal growth and mundane multitasking ability as one of the spell itself.

That said, while Alkharad was both teaching in the classroom and controlling the spell in that same update he did have to "come over there himself" to deal with one of the students so even if multitasking is possible it seems like there could be limits.

That's all assuming this is, in fact, an apparition spell, but while I don't think the update confirms it, I also I don't think anything in there weakens the case or rules it out, either.
 
Wow. Go to sleep early for work, wake up to find an update posted 20 min later (yay!) and 30 pages of discussion (that I read like 10 of).

The first battle of K8P, breaking into the gates, was such a massive melee already that a bodyguard rider would have been just one more sword chopping shroom. But other than that, I agree.

I think it would have triggered when the dude punched us in the stomach on the way out? The belt did.

So, allow me to make a case for Instinctive: have you ever wanted an entire city to live in fear? You know, one of the bad cities.

It's a much more niche use than Duel or Charge or Bodyguard, but what a niche! 'Fuck casters in this entire geographic location' niche. It's a good niche that is uniquely suited for sneaky dirtbag Grey Wizards to inhabit.

I'm picturing this as like the perfect deep cover agent weapon.

Go to kar khond or a chaos dwarf city or wherever. Get a role going as a servant or a slave and then just cast the spell every night. Each morning the city wakes up in fear to see which of the rulers the mysterious knight assaulted the previous evening, and no one has any idea where it is coming from. Plus, it doesn't die. Normal weapons can't touch it, and kill it one night and it's back the next anyways.

I love it.

But the scenario I'm thinking this spell is best for right now is when we start fighting dark elves that can counterspell our teleports, and evade our sword strikes. So having a reactive shield, basically, for when the dark elves hit for the 'weak point' and try to pin down/close with the human mage- that's what I want.


[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[X] [NUMBER] One
[X] [NUMBER] Trio
 
Sure, but for the spell to be passed on many archmages would have to learn the thing and attach permanent Gold magic tethers to their souls, including Teclis, it is not like even he can teach a spell he does not know. I do not think he would do anything that might imperial his ability to perform high magic and neither would most of his peers.
You're making the assumption that there's no way of doing the binding with High Magic, instead of it having to be single wind.
 
That's all assuming this is, in fact, an apparition spell, but while I don't think the update confirms it, I also I don't think anything in there weakens the case or rules it out, either.
I really like the idea.

So I think Handmaiden Telepresence would be... something like the Directed option, as described? Just 'assuming direct control' for the whole duration of the spell?
The Ulgu coating the Rider begins to meld into the Ulgu coating your soul like two soap bubbles meeting, and then with shocking abruptness there's nothing between you and it but the membranes of your respective souls.
So we're definitely receiving emotional information through our bond, with the Rider. I think it might be possible to receive sensory information too? We have Wolf as an example, but that's a lead, not a proof.

The Handmaidens are blind, so we'd be relying on other senses. We wouldn't be able to read a book, but the Handmaidens can smell emotions (at least Fear), so the information we know we can get out of an apparition is the information they'd mainly be sharing with us, which is strangely harmonious.

Our own windsight is potent enough to navigate in the dark, so maybe we could learn how to use that through the spell?
 
It's appearance would also place a date on when Alkharad made the spell: Since I'm getting the understanding that an apparition's form is a core part of the spell and can't easily be updated later, it having the appearance of of a Time of Three Emperors noble would imply that was when the spell was crafted. Alkharad himself might be older, but this part of his research would be fairly recent in the scheme of things.
On the other hand, there's the question on if it's appearance exactly matched with Al-Kharid when we met him (just more solid).

If he was a complete dead ringer, I don't see a reason not to think that it was some kind of Necrarch ability or a personal spell of his own.
 
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