Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Empire doesn't have the kind of intensely personal vendetta with the Druchii as the Asur do. And Laurelorn's political situation is its own unique can of worms different from Mathilde's.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
That mostly sounds like a good way to have a Skaven problem.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Yeah, but we're also completely expecting the Asur to show up and treat with Laurelorn because the Druuchi have, because we've been told to expect so by experts. So here we actually have an extremely clear counterexample showing that if you look like you're considering dealing with the Druuchi, Ulthuan will show up to try and make a better offer.
If anything, they'd appreciate us coming to them to give them the opportunity to do so. They know not everyone is fighting a forever war against the Druuchi, and they aren't on great terms with Laurelorn and the Empire themselves.
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I think the Asur can't afford to be pissed off at the Empire, and that by preventing a trade deal with between the Empire and Naggaroth they'd gain more than they'd lose.
Pretend you are the Phoenix King. An ambassador from the Human realms has approached you, and informed you that your traitorous kin have begun making diplomatic and economic inroads through the Old World—territory that you consider to be within your sphere of influence.
However, the Ambassador states that they are willing to throw the Druchii under the bus in favour of improved relations with the Asur. How much are you willing to pay to make this happen?
Codes for waystones? Dirt cheap. The High Loremaster? He's travelled through those lands before, and would probably be excited to go back. Military assistance? The last time you landed an army on those shores to hunt beastmen, it didn't go so hot, but maybe with local assistance you can avoid repeating those mistakes?
I will not comment on the idea of trading with the Druchii for the Waystone keyphrases because just reading the discussion is exhausting and personally adding to it will no doubt be even worse, but I will say that there is one tried-and-tested method of getting Waystone knowledge out of the current Loremaster of Hoeth:
Hopefully by that point it'll be quite difficult to shut the project down, because we already have results and the project members would probably want to keep going even if the Empire pulled out - and the project members at this point should include all the major players in the Old World, as well as Laurelorn which Finubar really doesn't want to antagonize. We don't need to make any threats about not sending our magic to the Vortex, we only need to explain how the river leylines work by having two seperate streams, and it won't take a genius Loremaster to realize that you can plug your Dhar stream into the network to throw it in the Vortex while releasing the Winds from the river itself for your own use. It's not hard to make the argument that at this point it's better for Ulthuan if we have a leyline method that allows us to send at least some of our magic to Ulthuan, and that doesn't have a track record of turning large swaths of land to Dhar wastelands.
The White Tower would rather we not mess with the Waystones at all, but if we already have methods to mess with them it's better we have the safe and proper (that is, elven) method. So come to the Asur only when we already have working Waystones. Proudly tell daddy Teclis that we couldn't quite manage to use the network's leylines, but we did manage to recreate the leyline method that was used by Nehekhara and isn't he so proud of us?
Hopefully by that point it'll be quite difficult to shut the project down, because we already have results and the project members would probably want to keep going even if the Empire pulled out - and the project members at this point should include all the major players in the Old World, as well as Laurelorn which Finubar really doesn't want to antagonize. We don't need to make any threats about not sending our magic to the Vortex, we only need to explain how the river leylines work by having two seperate streams, and it won't take a genius Loremaster to realize that you can plug your Dhar stream into the network to throw it in the Vortex while releasing the Winds from the river itself for your own use. It's not hard to make the argument that at this point it's better for Ulthuan if we have a leyline method that allows us to send at least some of our magic to Ulthuan, and that doesn't have a track record of turning large swaths of land to Dhar wastelands.
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That's a pretty strange situation. Like really, really strange.
So in this case Ulthuan is dicking around and not offering a real offer. Then Mathilde says Naggaroth has sent in an offer that The Waystone Project is going to take because Ulthuan hasn't offered anything. So Ulthuan offers something amazing but completely unrelated to waystones for some reason.
I mean I guess it's an amazing win? Not sure how the hell that happened or if it makes sense though. Probably we'd just ask for their actual waystone offer though instead.
It would make more sense to just, you know, give a real offer instead of dicking around.
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AzrielIlluminare
Mothman Cultist
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I mean, it'd probably confuse them as to why we're suddenly paying them tribute, who knows maybe they'd leave us alone?Sell it to Skavenblight
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean
The easiest way of getting the waystone does generally seem to just be "make a good case to Teclis". As long as you can pull on him a bit, like the jades did, and we know he did teach more Collage members on how to draw on waystone in the future from other editions(if i recall a boney quotte correctly).
Teclis is shown to be willing to work with humans, practical and willing to share waystone knowledge given a good enough cause. He does seem the best possible way, that wont' also screw us over later like the Druchi might.
Edit: Found the quote i was thinking of
The easiest way of getting the waystone does generally seem to just be "make a good case to Teclis". As long as you can pull on him a bit, like the jades did, and we know he did teach more Collage members on how to draw on waystone in the future from other editions(if i recall a boney quotte correctly).
Teclis is shown to be willing to work with humans, practical and willing to share waystone knowledge given a good enough cause. He does seem the best possible way, that wont' also screw us over later like the Druchi might.
Edit: Found the quote i was thinking of
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
There is the difficulty of actually contacting Teclis.
Ulthuan isn't in the habit of letting outsiders just wander into the White Tower.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I mean, we are a Grey Wizard...
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I have often thought that trading wrapstone to the Skaven could be a very productive endeavor. Just find a clan that is currently very busy fighting enemies of the empire and set up the deal.Sell it to Skavenblight
Or preferably find a single Skaven in that clan and set up a deal with them. That Skaven will be inclined to keep their source secret.
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If we're lucky, the Protector might knock on his door for us, but honestly the White Tower is a long way away from Nagarythe, so I don't think it's something we can count on.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'd we managed to infiltrate the White Tower we should get like 30 College Rep from that alone.
- Location
- Earth
Mathilde (internally): Okay, fate of the Waystone Project on the line. No pressure. Make a good first impression.
Finubar: Why does your name feel strangely familiar?
Mathilde: Oh, you've heard of me? Is it possibly my work with—
Finubar: Yes, I remember now. That blasted book! The Caledorians wouldn't shut up about it for weeks!
Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
And as mentioned previously, Marrisith is in a different negotiating position than us, and may be willing to take risks that are not palatable to at least parts of the voterbase.
Again, people are not 100% rational actors.
History, both IRL and Warhammer, is full of nations not taking the optimal course of action because they felt insulted.
Also, the codes are the opposite of dirt cheap, they are incredibly valuable because they are the control system for the thing keeping Ulthuan above the waves and the world from drowning in daemons.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think at minimum that would require us to derail an invasion that would have threatened all of Ulthuan.
Okay, but we are talking about Finubar the Seafarer here, not Calador II (or at the very least, his agents who are empowered to act in his name, and as such probably share his ideals). That narrows down the range of possible responses a little.
Personally I'm hoping she becomes the One True Git rather than the Everchosen—at the very least, no one would see it coming, which is perfect for a grey wizard.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I mean it definitely could happen.
That's where the negotiations with the Druchii come in
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
While elfcation rewards are cool. I do think we should generally approch that with "Skills" is gonna our reward for that. It's really cool, but for diplomatic ventures with the Asur as a whole, i think we would need another approch. One of the skills from Elfaction mightt be "Asur diplomacy" though, which would be very valuable for that part though.
- Location
- Oklahoma
Probably not, though. We're only going to be there for three months. If the Druchii could launch Ulthuan-threatening-invasions often enough that one was even plausibly going to happen while we're there then Ulthuan probably wouldn't exist anymore.
It'll almost certainly just be the standard small scale skirmishes that never really end.
I don't think interacting with just Nagarythians would help much with overall Asur diplomacy. They only make up, at best, about an eighth of the Asur after all.
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Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
Finubar is not Caledor II, no, but he is still an elf and has to deal with the internal politics and pressures of Ulthuan. It might narrow the range of responses down from "sparking another War of Vengeance", but "refuse to give you these ultra-valuable codes" is quite possible.
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