Jeopardizer
Stalin and the Secret Police
- Location
- Glorious Frankreich
You are indeed quite right.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
To be fair, Elves barely see each other as equals (personhood has to be earned), and 180 years is still a long time, even for the long lived.
So we might not be in the Asur "in-group", but neither are the Eonir, and it seems likely that diplomacy will be happening between those nations despite it.
And the Empire is a major power, it can't simply be dismissed out of hand.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Skills are fairly broad; we got Kislev Diplomacy while only having really talked in depth with people from a relatively small subsection. I think you'd only need to talk with a wider group for the relevant Advanced Diplomacy skill.
I still doubt we'll get it, but more because to get skills requires intent and opportunity to practise. Diplomacy is not really the stated focus of the time there and we're not gonna get it for free just from having feet on the ground.
180 years is about the time it takes the average elf to reach the baseline to be called an adult, Tyrion and Teclis were basically teenagers when they fought in the war and child savants by most standards. Imagine a state that has existed for 18 years (in imitation of a much older state that kind of had the same borders centuries ago) trying to pretend it is the equal of a super-power that has existed for the span of recorded history, so from Ur to the present day, and one begins to see why the Empire may not be taken seriously, save perhaps as the most recent Druchi dupes if we present as being willing to deal with them. It is not reasonable to deal with the Druchi much less to trade lore with them, I mean they lie to their own people about magical lore to keep them weak, what would they do to a human state?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Yeah, if the Asur had a close relationship with the Eonir, the first indication we have of them reaching out or conducting any sort of talks wouldn't be an expected response to the Druchii reaching out. They'd have traders, or an embassy, or something.
Going to the Druchii and then asking the Asur for a better deal would probably work, if we cared to spend the AP on it. But even if we do, it'd be better to wait until we've got better Waystones, because then it's another aid in negotiations, rather than the only thing negotiations hinge on.
That assumes that the only merit that the Asur measure nations by is their age. Not to mention there's a case that the Empire goes back 2000 years anyway. Humans aren't exactly the "shoddy makers of ritual implements" they were back in pre-Sigmar times.
It is not just age, it is also being a hot mess, the state of hot mess did not stop when the empire finally started being an actual state. It literally outlawed arcane magic a generation ago, to an Asur perspective that has to look insane, like outlawing wearing pants or to use a CK2 example having solid walls to houses. The fact that a few decades after that we are even arguing that they should teach us more about waystones is already a hard pill to swallow, adding 'or we will go to the Druchi' isn't going to get them to respect our common sense more in my opinion.
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I'd hope that the quality of 'ritual implements' has improved over time.
Probably not in comparison, imagine the things you could build with 20 years of dedication.
Probably good as an analogy for the races
The human toy is basic but functional and made within months, not years or decades. Maybe it looks fancy and maybe some of the are a bit "crazy" but it works.
The dwarven one is rock solid, same design since the ancestors... Well did whatever the ancestors would do with dwarven sex Toys. Maybe some fancy tech in there...
The elves build absolutely beautiful, pleasing to look at implements of pleasure just to use them on vanilla shit because they don't want to "ruin" themselves...
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Actually, thinking about it we might be "in-group" of White Tower specifcally since we are former "student" of Teclis. He did serve as Supreme Patriarch right before he become High Loremaster after all.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The thing with the whole "Empire isn't really a nation in the asur eyes" is that it doesn't really matter? The Empire right now, is allready in the process of establishing new tributaries. We are working on waystone foundation this very turn. The Empire right now, is half-way there to figuring out waystones. That just cannot be ignored.
More importantly, the Empire is on coalition with Kislev on this mattter. Kislev whom has allready turned their network into a closed loop giving the Asur no Energy. And sure, we know that won't happen because of Three Emperors electrib bogolo, but is that something the Asur can gamble upon? The chances of the Empire doing the same as Kislev is low, but the conditions for it to happen is there. That is a very frightning chain of events, because if Empire is closed of, it's functionally the same as if Marinburg Nexus was lost.
Fundamently, for the Asur there is a very low, but oh so real chance that they might lost all of the Empire. And if we invite Bretonnia? This can very quickly spiral out of controll as each part of the old world closes itself out of the Asur's loop.
If Ulthuan truly needs all the power of the old world to live, that isn't something they can ignore. They have to negotiate. And now, i personally don't wanna monotize the waystone network, because i think putting a price tag on the external lifesupport of the entire planet is a pretty bad idea, but in an argument if you can get the Asur to come to the meeting table or not..? They honestly have little to no choice, even if you don't mention the Druchi(Which i do also think is a bad idea).
As long as Kislev, whom has shown the capability to close themself out of the waystone network, is a part of the project. That everyone else can learn the same is too much of a risk. It doesn't matter if they see the Empire as barely a nation or not. Kislev's particpation in the waystone network project turns this into an extremly dangerous thing for the Asur.
More importantly, the Empire is on coalition with Kislev on this mattter. Kislev whom has allready turned their network into a closed loop giving the Asur no Energy. And sure, we know that won't happen because of Three Emperors electrib bogolo, but is that something the Asur can gamble upon? The chances of the Empire doing the same as Kislev is low, but the conditions for it to happen is there. That is a very frightning chain of events, because if Empire is closed of, it's functionally the same as if Marinburg Nexus was lost.
Fundamently, for the Asur there is a very low, but oh so real chance that they might lost all of the Empire. And if we invite Bretonnia? This can very quickly spiral out of controll as each part of the old world closes itself out of the Asur's loop.
If Ulthuan truly needs all the power of the old world to live, that isn't something they can ignore. They have to negotiate. And now, i personally don't wanna monotize the waystone network, because i think putting a price tag on the external lifesupport of the entire planet is a pretty bad idea, but in an argument if you can get the Asur to come to the meeting table or not..? They honestly have little to no choice, even if you don't mention the Druchi(Which i do also think is a bad idea).
As long as Kislev, whom has shown the capability to close themself out of the waystone network, is a part of the project. That everyone else can learn the same is too much of a risk. It doesn't matter if they see the Empire as barely a nation or not. Kislev's particpation in the waystone network project turns this into an extremly dangerous thing for the Asur.
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K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
The White Tower is probably the most warded building on the planet, home of the best non-Slaan mages in existence and has likely be a target of Druchii infiltration for millennia and is still standing. There's zero chance of us managing to sneak inside it.
King Arthur
The Once and Future King
So, here's a fun little opinion question. Who do you think has the most faith in Mattie's abilities, not counting Karak Vlag as a whole cause I want to stick to individual people. The options are
A: The MC herself.
B: Ranald
C: Belegar
D: Algard
E: Eike
F: Panoramia
H: Insert Name Here
Personally, I think Belegar. Mattie knows how lucky she's gotten, knows she can't do some thing and some people are better at things then her, and knows how much help she get's constantly. Ranald knows better then we do how much he helps us. Panoramia has a pretty decent read on us, honestly.
Belegar's faith in her honestly seems to be "YES" to me. Between the choice of an extra whole army, and Mattie, when going to war .... I think Belegar would probably choose Mattie. Like, a good army too.
The only real contender is Eike I think?
A: The MC herself.
B: Ranald
C: Belegar
D: Algard
E: Eike
F: Panoramia
H: Insert Name Here
Personally, I think Belegar. Mattie knows how lucky she's gotten, knows she can't do some thing and some people are better at things then her, and knows how much help she get's constantly. Ranald knows better then we do how much he helps us. Panoramia has a pretty decent read on us, honestly.
Belegar's faith in her honestly seems to be "YES" to me. Between the choice of an extra whole army, and Mattie, when going to war .... I think Belegar would probably choose Mattie. Like, a good army too.
The only real contender is Eike I think?
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
So here is something we need to do, write a book with a title like "Biography of Mathilde Weber" or something about secrets or Grey Order ciphers or something. Then put it in a hidden location in the Library and behind a lot of security, acting like it is very important so people try to get it.
Then have what is inside basically be "this is a decoy" in less direct terms.
Then have what is inside basically be "this is a decoy" in less direct terms.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
Actually, if White Tower of Hoeth is public property, then sneaking into it is as easy as setting coin to Night Prowler side, it's just that either gambling it all on Lady/Lileath connection with Father or just turning on Gambler and yolo-ing it are smarter options in regards to negotiations.
King Arthur
The Once and Future King
If our plan is to steal the secrets, I really want to see if we can use the AV Liminal Realm to make a bag of holding and just start looting.
I doubt it, and, also, if there's any place that could detect us through the coin/detect us hiding stolen goods in a pocket dimension the White Tower is pretty high up on that list ..... but wow, I'd love to steal some genuine Elven Magic Tomes.
.....
Going hard on the Protector and just gambling on us doing amazing might be our smartest play though.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
This is largely my position, yeah.
"Yo, the fuckin Nazis have rolled up and started making inroads with some of our politicians, you wanna do something to fuck them over?" is a very valid tack to take.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What's the distance on the reality-softening effect of powerstones and Orbs of Sorcery? Is testing what happens with a full set of eight in one spot one of the things we're going to be taking the opportunity to do once we make a set (or already known)? I'm pondering whether either loading the lot of them up in a wagon and riding down the line we want to burn a new leyline into, or setting up a line of Ghyran powerstones along the intended route (since Ghyran is the Wind we know how to get out of Waystones, thus hopefully making the power requirement easier to meet) would make it easier if we wanted to replicate the Elven method.
Of course, I'm taking the slightly more controversial stance of "we should honeypot the Druchii into making those inroads before we approach Ulthuan, in order to control how the Druchii interact with the Empire, to maximise shinies from both factions, and to also twist the knife when we eventually betray the Druchii".
The doublecross will be hard to pull off satisfactory if Toddbringer or Gausser get to the druchii first.
No.
While this could work, using extreme concentrations of magical power to plow a furrow in reality is likely to have undesired side-effects.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Just glancing at the new turn options we had this turn.
And as a more direct reason, Waystone Gold is basically the ideal material for the capstone.
It's probably worth at least trying to secure a supply from Cathay? I know caravans are rare as heck, and presumably there's a reason we don't hear about trading ships, but if silk's about to be devalued then it might be the next incredibly-valuable good that makes the journey worth it? Otherwise, caravans might not be worth the danger anymore, which is a shame given how well-positioned K8P is to take advantage of them.
And as a more direct reason, Waystone Gold is basically the ideal material for the capstone.
I hadn't even noticed this option before. I'm pretty curious what this would lead to, given how incredibly simple-yet-effective the current Rune is. It might be more of a research option to understand it better, which would be interesting in its own right.
Thinking about the Road option more, while it's true that roads are travelled in both directions, you generally only travel in one direction on any given journey. So that might not be an issue. But it also means you can travel back, which could be really interesting: currently, if a Waystone is blocked, the magic accumulates indefinitely. But with this you could send it back the way it came, and if it could keep travelling up the stream then extra paths wouldn't just be redundancy for everything upstream, it'd be redundancy for everything downstream before the break, which is extremely cool. This could defang attempts to block a Waystone off for a fountain of Dhar.
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- Location
- Washington
It's not value alone, it's value relative to weight, and metal is heavy.
If silk ends up SUPER devalued, northern caravans specifically might cut down but there's still going to be the spice trade. Which actually makes K8P's position even better, since the spice trade disproportionately involves Ind, which is the soutern route.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Ah, I was thinking of space, but you're right that weight is probably the defining factor.
Well, if we ever figure out trans-continental teleportation, there's a justification for the expense
