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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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picklepikkl said:
There wasn't a question mark or a request that someone explain anywhere in either of her posts. She spoke about what hypothetically she'd need to be persuaded, but did not actually indicate that she wanted to argue about it or that she was trying to convince anyone.
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On the other hand it is rather trivial for thread to latch on to obviosly wrong information* and treat it like truth. It happens a lot and somebody wanting to correct people before a such open ended statement becomes common knowladge over WoG is resonable. 4 of them one after another is too much tough.

If it is answered perhaps repeating it is not a good idea and people should be mindfull to not dogpile.

*Calling WoG, "assumptions" in this case.
 
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Glau said:
If you are disengaging @Codex, I wrote a new omake that you might like, was hoping you'd see it before you go.
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Excellent omake. I loved it. It's got exactly what I've always wanted from Pan and Mathilde's relationship. Lots of love and care and personality all meshed up in that expressive style of yours.

I especially love your discussion on labels to refer to Mathilde. Beloved is a such a beautiful word.
 
Alratan said:
You don't have one spell cast another spell. You have one spell cast on the gun. It infuses any bullet placed inside it with a Bless Weapon sub-unit of the main spell. When fired; the spell stays active on the bullet (possibly dragging thre smoke from firing along behind it as a medium to make extending the spell easier). When the bullet hits something that part of spell is dismissed. You don't have one spell casting another spell, you have one spell that can create and dismiss sun-units of itself that are based on a petty magic spell.
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Is there a particular advantage to having a handgun that shoots magical bullets, over having a wand that shoots magical fireballs?
 
If we tried options to increase our Liminal Realms knowledge (Algard, the Grey Lords of Laurelorn) and they blew us off, yes our current option for Liminal Realms is the safest. But we didn't. I understand trying to save time/AP (I'm also voting for it! Not going to be a hypocrite) but let's not lie to ourselves that we are choosing the safest option rn.
 
Alratan said:
Rite of Way does it. It's continually creating and releasing many iterations of Skywalk over a wide area

In this case it would be even easier. You don't have one spell cast another spell. You have one spell cast on the gun. It infuses any bullet placed inside it with a Bless Weapon sub-unit of the main spell. When fired; the spell stays active on the bullet (possibly dragging thre smoke from firing along behind it as a medium to make extending the spell easier). When the bullet hits something that part of spell is dismissed. You don't have one spell casting another spell, you have one spell that can create and dismiss sun-units of itself that are based on a petty magic spell.
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The thing about the skywalk is that they disconnect from the main spell via becoming the effect rather than the winds. So the equivalent would be an enchantment that spawns fireballs at the tip of a wand or something.

You are looking to have the winds remain as winds (infuse) and remain as a static enchantment, something we've been told is very much against their nature. So... Basically, imagine you are knitting a doily out of snakes. You want this doily to grab other snakes that get close, knit them into a different type of doily, and then let go of them. You want to do this by finding the right knitting pattern, such that the random twitching of the snakes in you first doily causes this all to happen automatically.

It's not really possible, if you are using accurate metaphors, is what I'm saying. Maybe in theory with a computer assisted design program and a lot of experimentation? But not without those.
 
Gavin Prince said:
Is there a particular advantage to having a handgun that shoots magical bullets, over having a wand that shoots magical fireballs?
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If the gun and bullets work the normal way and the spell effect is delivered on impact, then presumably you can leverage a Pistols skill in some way, which would not be possible if it were just a gun-shaped wand casting spells.
silvanknight said:
If we tried options to increase our Liminal Realms knowledge (Algard, the Grey Lords of Laurelorn) and they blew us off, yes our current option for Liminal Realms is the safest. But we didn't. I understand trying to save time/AP (I'm also voting for it! Not going to be a hypocrite) but let's not lie to ourselves that we are choosing the safest option rn.
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If they had showed up on our AP list as things we could do that had passed Mathilde's initial sanity check, then I'd consider it. But I'm not about the write-in life; if Mathilde doesn't consider prep actions necessary then I won't either. Contrast this to my attitude about the AV analysis actions, which we fully covered before doing more research and which have paid great dividends in allowing us to convince Thorek to use it and handle it safely for other, more dangerous experiments.

Mathilde has consulted with people for background information in her work without us needing to explicitly write it in, because we give broad direction rather than micromanagement. If she thinks Aksel or Hatalath or whoever (I believe Algard was specifically raised as a possibility and dismissed by Boney, but I'm phone posting and my normal search-fu is operating at a handicap) might have useful input and be willing to lend a word of advice, I'm confident she'll ask.
 
Gavin Prince said:
Here's my experimental data, where it needed several gallons of priceless reagants for a few feet of space. If you do it yourself, watch out for daemons."
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This doesn't really take anything away from your argument, but the actual amount used to make the liminal realm was a third of a gallon. Mathilde also spent a bunch of AV experimenting with holding vitae (IIRC the other 2/3 of that gallon) but now that she knows that roughly a third of a gallon is the amount required she can write that down and spare future liminal realm researchers that trouble.

(was it a few feet of space? I distinctly recall Boney saying so, but as far as I can tell it's not said in the update and I can't find the WoG where is was presumably said)
 
mathymancer said:
This doesn't really take anything away from your argument, but the actual amount used to make the liminal realm was a third of a gallon. Mathilde also spent a bunch of AV experimenting with holding vitae (IIRC the other 2/3 of that gallon) but now that she knows that roughly a third of a gallon is the amount required she can write that down and spare future liminal realm researchers that trouble.

(was it a few feet of space? I distinctly recall Boney saying so, but as far as I can tell it's not said in the update and I can't find the WoG where is was presumably said)
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It was in the update:
Boney said:
Either you've uncovered a very small liminal realm - about two cubic meters, by your estimation - that just so happened to be where you performed this experiment, or your experiment has created it.
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mathymancer said:
(was it a few feet of space? I distinctly recall Boney saying so, but as far as I can tell it's not said in the update and I can't find the WoG where is was presumably said)
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Boney said:
Either you've uncovered a very small liminal realm - about two cubic meters, by your estimation - that just so happened to be where you performed this experiment, or your experiment has created it.
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Assuming that holds true, that's a conversion rate of one gallon AV to six cubic meters. That standard of D&D dungeon crawls, the ten foot by ten foot by ten foot room, is about 28 cubic meters. So you could spend five gallons AV and get a small room.

This isn't a great conversion rate for living space, and something the scale of the Grey College is wildly impractical using just the one Asp, but it's a pretty solid rate for creating a Bag of Holding type thing or a secured vault. Or to pull an Algard and have a paperless office.
 
mathymancer said:
This doesn't really take anything away from your argument, but the actual amount used to make the liminal realm was a third of a gallon.
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ReImagined said:
It was in the update:
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Huh, a third of a gallon to 70 cubic feet is a lot better than I'd remembered it. I think I must have read "2 cubic meters" and my brain helpfully stored that as "2 cubic feet". I'm still not particularly interested in followup, but that's way, way more efficient.
 
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Glau said:
Sure. You just don't have to actually post about them, given the context of things. You feel one way, we feel another, and an ask for information not directed at you isn't always an invitation to an argument.
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It's a public forum, and given how people latch onto information at times which can be wrong dispelling that after it's taken hold can be very difficult.

picklepikkl said:
Normally, what I do in situations where I'm unsure if someone is interested in being persuaded or not is ask directly, after far too many incidents of doing the wrong thing because implications and tone are often hard to read (#spectrumwizardpostinggang). In particular, I've noticed in the past that Codex has posted stuff she thinks is interesting and been frustrated when people try to argue with her about it, so my priors here were strongly on "she doesn't want a debate unless she explicitly asks for it."
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That's great but like it's a public forum, I get that people may not want to argue things but.. well given the nature of how quest participation works and how proposing ideas and theories can do to the direction the story can take ofcourse people will want to dispute things they don't agree with and it's not a private venue, it's literally the way this format works, without it I don't see how you can realistically have meaningful participation? Like otherwise the only thing we could do is vote and that's it,

I feel like ideally people would/should be more engaged with the quest than that where possible. That's not to say people should be in any way badgered but like I don't think it's remotely risen to that level here surely?

picklepikkl said:
And it's not like a non-lininal option is anywhere close to the top spot, so there's no reason to argue the point for the sake of convincing voters in the thread: it would be purely to convince her. So there were a lot of things lined up in the "no" column and nothing in the "yes."
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This however is more compelling, I must admit I've not actually checked the vote tally recently and I'd be surprised If I'm not the only one.

picklepikkl said:
Assuming that holds true, that's a conversion rate of one gallon AV to six cubic meters. That standard of D&D dungeon crawls, the ten foot by ten foot by ten foot room, is about 28 cubic meters. So you could spend five gallons AV and get a small room.

This isn't a great conversion rate for living space, and something the scale of the Grey College is wildly impractical using just the one Asp, but it's a pretty solid rate for creating a Bag of Holding type thing or a secured vault. Or to pull an Algard and have a paperless office.
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I think i'd want to use liminal realms for defensive purposes, the idea of pouring redhot sand from a liminal realm where it could be stored in a gatehouse for use out of the way would be kind of surprising for any attackers but that's probably not really a good use but it's something my mind went to.
 
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I think adding one to Mathilde's soul is so far off as to not really be something to put on the plus column. Adding endless pockets (Terms and conditions apply) to our next robe redesign seems like it might be more plausible though. Would be pretty on theme for an Ulgu caster as well.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I think adding one to Mathilde's soul is so far off as to not really be something to put on the plus column. Adding endless pockets (Terms and conditions apply) to our next robe redesign seems like it might be more plausible though. Would be pretty on theme for an Ulgu caster as well.
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I'd love that idea but I'd want to know what adverse magical conditions do to it before risking it. I'd hate to have a magical pocket realm suddenly burst when it's full of stuff if it just sort of teleports into you.
 
ReImagined said:
It was in the update:
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I was searching for feet when it was meters all along. Doesn't Mathilde usually use Imperial units? Must be Tzeentchian influence.
picklepikkl said:
Assuming that holds true, that's a conversion rate of one gallon AV to six cubic meters. That standard of D&D dungeon crawls, the ten foot by ten foot by ten foot room, is about 28 cubic meters. So you could spend five gallons AV and get a small room.

This isn't a great conversion rate for living space, and something the scale of the Grey College is wildly impractical using just the one Asp, but it's a pretty solid rate for creating a Bag of Holding type thing or a secured vault. Or to pull an Algard and have a paperless office.
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I imagine it'll be used for research more than anything. I bet Algrad would pay nicely for a few gallons, though he would have to pay quite a bit since the the price of an AV gallon to the Colleges is equal to the price of an Orb of Sorcery minus the price of Powerstone.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I think adding one to Mathilde's soul is so far off as to not really be something to put on the plus column. Adding endless pockets (Terms and conditions apply) to our next robe redesign seems like it might be more plausible though. Would be pretty on theme for an Ulgu caster as well.
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Assuming that the entrances to pocket dimensions can be moved at all. The safer assumption is that if you tear a rift through the fabric of reality into the Aether, it stays where you put it.
 
picklepikkl said:
Assuming that holds true, that's a conversion rate of one gallon AV to six cubic meters. That standard of D&D dungeon crawls, the ten foot by ten foot by ten foot room, is about 28 cubic meters. So you could spend five gallons AV and get a small room.

This isn't a great conversion rate for living space, and something the scale of the Grey College is wildly impractical using just the one Asp, but it's a pretty solid rate for creating a Bag of Holding type thing or a secured vault. Or to pull an Algard and have a paperless office.
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It also happened entierly unintentionally. So it's pretty likely that it can be done better. It's also possible that the most costly part is creating the initial realm, and it can then be enlarged without further AV (sort of the reverse of morbs).
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Can liminal realms eleven be moved, or are they "fixed" to a certain point in reality?
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Try it and find out?
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I think adding one to Mathilde's soul is so far off as to not really be something to put on the plus column. Adding endless pockets (Terms and conditions apply) to our next robe redesign seems like it might be more plausible though. Would be pretty on theme for an Ulgu caster as well.
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If we're talking chicken empires, my pie-in-the-sky desire is being able to fit one in the Gyrocarriage so that we can have a whole mobile base inside it. Or maybe just storage for books, who knows?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
I'd love that idea but I'd want to know what adverse magical conditions do to it before risking it. I'd hate to have a magical pocket realm suddenly burst when it's full of stuff if it just sort of teleports into you.
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Yeah, hopefully this next turn will let us get a better idea on all that.

Gavin Prince said:
Assuming that the entrances to pocket dimensions can be moved at all. The safer assumption is that if you tear a rift through the fabric of reality into the Aether, it stays where you put it.
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I'm not at all saying it's guaranteed, but I don't don't think it's guaranteed not too either. For example what if the rift is in put on a piece of fabric?

Or, zooming out much further, it clearly does move at least once the scale gets large enough. Or else it would just zoom away after the planet orbits past the location it was made in.

Mopman43 said:
If we're talking chicken empires, my pie-in-the-sky desire is being able to fit one in the Gyrocarriage so that we can have a whole mobile base inside it. Or maybe just storage for books, who knows?
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I was thinking about that as an option as well. Might even be easier as it's a larger item to hook it onto. Wouldn't be quite as useful, but still pretty damn useful. The spectre of future lost loot like at the college of necromancy could finally be laid to rest.
 
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