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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Wait. Wait a second.

> Room of Serenity: An extremely comfortable room that removes all distractions and allows one to concentrate fully on a given task. Allows 1 paper to be written or cowritten per turn for no action expenditure.

Can't we just... invite Egrimm to chill with us next turn to write the Windfall paper? Would something make that impossible or a bad idea?
 
I'm wary of just info-dumping personal anecdotes at Sofia. We're here to learn about her, mostly out of well intentioned but poorly timed curiosity, and that means listening to her, not talking at her.

Rather than trying to justify our presence and appearance, I think we should give her the space and the prompting to describe herself in her own words.

Edit: also I kinda want to do a "differences between a wizard of the empire and a wizard of Karak eight peaks" thing, but I think that goes against my comment above.
 
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So silly idea, if elemental magics turn into wind magic in the presence of a college wizard, that sounds like just walking into their university could cause some real damage.

Imagine a bright wizard wanted to say hi, and suddenly all their enchaments and spells turned to aqshy all at once, probably won't happen, since then it probably would have happened by now, but its kinda funny if it was real.
 
Somic said:
Wait. Wait a second.

> Room of Serenity: An extremely comfortable room that removes all distractions and allows one to concentrate fully on a given task. Allows 1 paper to be written or cowritten per turn for no action expenditure.

Can't we just... invite Egrimm to chill with us next turn to write the Windfall paper? Would something make that impossible or a bad idea?
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That would certainly open up a lot of options. I'd still probably want to take Johann as backup for Ghostbusting because going alone seems very silly and other than Eike "My biggest combat magic is Drop" Hochschild he's the only option that doesn't come with exposure risk. But the other WEBMAT activities are more flexible, if we even go for WEBMAT without a specific need for Egrimm.
 
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mathymancer said:
I think there's a big difference between Qrech and Sofia. Well, there's a lot of differences between them, but an important one is that Sofia doesn't need to work with Mathilde. Mathilde was Qrech's jailor, but Mathilde isn't even Sofia's Master - she's just her Master's girlfriend. It would be good if they get along because Mathilde is an important person in Panoramia's life, but if Sofia really doesn't want to have anything to do with Mathilde she mostly doesn't have to. That's why I think we should emphasize that Sofia can reach out to Mathilde just as any Wizard of K8P can, but we shouldn't go further than that - it's up to her (and up to Panoramia) to decide how much to make use of that connection.
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Whilst the Colleges are perhaps the most 'modern' institutions in the Empire; institutionally they're still less concerned with conflicts of interest and separation of powers than people might be used to.

Mathilde is going to cast a very long shadow over any wizard that stays in Karak Eight Peaks, let alone someone in Sofia's position. Heck, Mathilde can probably cast a decently sized shadow over a gathering of LMs and not just because she's good with Uglu.

A friendly interaction can go a long way towards lowering Sofia's stress levels which will make her less likely to feel the need to get drunk on magic.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm wary of just info-dumping personal anecdotes at Sofia. We're here to learn about her, mostly out of well intentioned but poorly timed curiosity, and that means listening to her, not talking at her.

Rather than trying to justify our presence and appearance, I think we should give her the space and the prompting to describe herself in her own words.
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Are we here purely to learn about Sofia or also to help Panoramia be successful with her first apprentice?
 
I'm still catching up with the thread, so apologies if I'm repeating ideas.
Also, I don't think these are good ideas, but they keep banging around in my head

[] Give her a version of the Miscast Talk we gave Panoramia way back when.
-telling addicts that what they're doing is dangerous to themselves and others doesn't tend to work by itself. They usually already know, so it comes off condescending, and it doesn't address any of the problems that led to the addiction.

[] Ask her if the name Alkaseltzer rings any bells
-:V
 
mathymancer said:
I think there's a big difference between Qrech and Sofia. Well, there's a lot of differences between them, but an important one is that Sofia doesn't need to work with Mathilde. Mathilde was Qrech's jailor, but Mathilde isn't even Sofia's Master - she's just her Master's girlfriend. It would be good if they get along because Mathilde is an important person in Panoramia's life, but if Sofia really doesn't want to have anything to do with Mathilde she mostly doesn't have to. That's why I think we should emphasize that Sofia can reach out to Mathilde just as any Wizard of K8P can, but we shouldn't go further than that - it's up to her (and up to Panoramia) to decide how much to make use of that connection.
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She doesn't need to engage with us personally, no, but if the assumption is that she's staying at K8P, then she's going to be using the Green Tower in Mathilde's home and the Library that Mathilde's built up. All I'm saying is that since her first reaction to us was fear, then a good first step would be addressing that fear directly—namely, that we have no desire to harm her, and that we have every reason to want her to succeed, which is similar to the argument we gave Qrech.
 
Somic said:
Wait. Wait a second.

> Room of Serenity: An extremely comfortable room that removes all distractions and allows one to concentrate fully on a given task. Allows 1 paper to be written or cowritten per turn for no action expenditure.

Can't we just... invite Egrimm to chill with us next turn to write the Windfall paper? Would something make that impossible or a bad idea?
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Awesome catch. Boney, does this work for a Serenity action or no? If so, I definitely favor that over starting the AV book.
Gavin Prince said:
That would certainly open up a lot of options. I'd still probably want to take Johann as backup for Ghostbusting because going alone seems very silly and other than Eike "My biggest combat magic is Drop" Hochschild he's the only option that doesn't come with exposure risk. But the other WEBMAT activities are more flexible, if we even go for WEBMAT without a specific need for Egrimm.
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If this works, I still think WEB-MATing would be good. We could investigate one of our other artifacts with the freed action:
Boney said:
Kurgan Shrine to Mannsleib
Kurgan enchanted weapons (approx. 12)
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I'd be down to study the shrine with Egrimm, for instance, that seems like it could be fun. This thread eats up divinity metaphysics like it's candy. Alternately, a couple dozen pages back, Parabola asked Boney about Egrimm's feelings about teaching Eike, and he had this to say:
Parabola said:
I'm not sure if I've asked before, so I'll do so now: would Egrimm be willing to help co-teach Eike on Enchanting in general as a WEB-MAT action?
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Boney said:
It would either go very well or very badly. Mathilde's read on him is that if he sees Eike as worth the effort he'll give it his all, but if he doesn't it'll rankle him.
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So I think that's a riskier action than I'd want to take before exposing the two of them in a different context (like the Windfall paper) and seeing how it goes. I really don't want to undo the progress we've made with Egrimm with regard to being treated like a person and not like a skillmonkey.

As a plan of last resort, if we have a spare WEB-MAT action we could always crank out a book about old coins. The Tylos one would be my preference because of its implications about the origins of the Horned Rat (even leaving out the stuff about ancestral dwarf gods that we have promised not to share).
 
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Wolf is situationally better for this, I think. "Meet my dog. He is friendly." is pretty bulletproof, usually?
Ankermand said:
Imagine a bright wizard wanted to say hi, and suddenly all their enchaments and spells turned to aqshy all at once, probably won't happen, since then it probably would have happened by now, but its kinda funny if it was real.
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Aqshy specifically should be fine for some of them, I think. At least in the first edition, where Elementalists existed, Fire magic and Bright magic were so identical that the Fire College pretty much got transplanted wholesale into the rest of the Wind Colleges and the remainders who called themselves elementalists were a few sore losers hanging out in a brick apartment.

Like, they had literally the same upper end spell list so the book said to just go to the Red Wind section of the spells; they weren't merely metaphorically identical.
 
picklepikkl said:
So I think that's a riskier action than I'd want to take before exposing the two of them in a different context (like the Windfall paper) and seeing how it goes. I really don't want to undo the progress we've made with Egrimm with regard to being treated like a person and not like a skillmonkey.
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Well, if teaching Eike alone is a risk of annoying Egrimm, we could make it a workshop and get Max up to speed on Enchanting at the same time (MAX: Learn Enchanting / EGRIMM: Teach Enchanting / EIKE: Learn Enchanting). Leave it up to Egrimm to decide who he'd rather pay more attention to in the lesson, and take up the slack ourselves with the other.

That way we end the turn with two WEBMAT enchanters for Windherding instead of one, as a bonus to Egrimm and Eike interacting for the first time.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
That would certainly open up a lot of options. I'd still probably want to take Johann as backup for Ghostbusting because going alone seems very silly and other than Eike "My biggest combat magic is Drop" Hochschild he's the only option that doesn't come with exposure risk. But the other WEBMAT activities are more flexible, if we even go for WEBMAT without a specific need for Egrimm.
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Hey now, she knows Magic Dart.

That's good enough to knock out a Knight! :p
 
picklepikkl said:
Awesome catch. Boney, does this work for a Serenity action or no? If so, I definitely favor that over starting the AV book.

If this works, I still think WEB-MATing would be good. We could investigate one of our other artifacts with the freed action:

I'd be down to study the shrine with Egrimm, for instance, that seems like it could be fun. This thread eats up divinity metaphysics like it's candy. Alternately, a couple dozen pages back, Parabola asked Boney about Egrimm's feelings about teaching Eike, and he had this to say:


So I think that's a riskier action than I'd want to take before exposing the two of them in a different context (like the Windfall paper) and seeing how it goes. I really don't want to undo the progress we've made with Egrimm with regard to being treated like a person and not like a skillmonkey.

As a plan of last resort, if we have a spare WEB-MAT action we could always crank out a book about old coins. The Tylos one would be my preference because of its implications about the origins of the Horned Rat (even leaving out the stuff about ancestral dwarf gods that we have promised not to share).
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Maybe I am missing something but if we have an spare WEBMAT action why don't we go for Windherder to get started in the tech tree?
 
chocolote12 said:
Wolf is situationally better for this, I think. "Meet my dog. He is friendly." is pretty bulletproof, usually?
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"Friendly." Sure. Let's look at Wolf from an outside perspective:
Boney said:
Francesco did not budge from the table he was sitting at as the massive beast approached. It wasn't as large as the Giant Wolves of Ulrikadrin, but it was hard to remember that when he was eye to eye with the creature. It eyed him solemnly for a moment, and then turned its head to reveal the letter tucked into its grey collar. Trying to suppress his nerves, Francesco commanded his arm not to shake as he reached over and pulled the missive free. The animal looked at him with unnatural intelligence, nodded once, and then turned and left.
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Familiar or no, let's not introduce a hulking, intimidating-as-all-heck animal into the equation. At least not as a first impression.
 
Gavin Prince said:
Well, if teaching Eike alone is a risk of annoying Egrimm, we could make it a workshop and get Max up to speed on Enchanting at the same time. Leave it up to Egrimm to decide who he'd rather pay more attention to in the lesson, and take up the slack ourselves with the other. That way we end the turn with two WEBMAT enchanters instead of one as a bonus to Egrimm and Eike interacting for the first time.
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I think the ruling is that if we want our WEB-MAT employees to learn a skill, it has to be something that they're going to find useful or they get annoyed? This is Boney's attempt to stop us from taking a dozen classes with our employees to get action economy on stuff we want to do. We have made heavy use of Max's Ritual knowledge, so that's been fine, but I'm not sure I want to lock in "do some Enchanting project with Max sometime in the next couple turns".
Retrueno said:
Maybe I am missing something but if we have an spare WEBMAT action why don't we go for Windherder to get started in the tech tree?
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Because I would really like Eike to be an Enchanter before we next attempting Windherding so she can hopefully start developing the skill herself. Remember, Windherder is a Skill, not a Trait; it's teachable, it's not something inherent to Mathilde.

...actually, here's a thought. Boney has said that ordering of actions in a turn will be done in such a way as to maximize benefits (within limits of reasonableness and being foreseeable, of course), right? So, what if next turn for the Eike Study action we paid 1 CF for her to go to the college and learn Enchanting? That way, assuming she learned successfully, she'd be able to come back and be part of Windherding later in the same turn. Sure, there's a risk that she doesn't learn Enchanting successfully, but if so then maybe she'll still be able to pick up some tips during the Windherding action?
 
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picklepikkl said:
I think the ruling is that if we want our WEB-MAT employees to learn a skill, it has to be something that they're going to find useful or they get annoyed? This is Boney's attempt to stop us from taking a dozen classes with our employees to get action economy on stuff we want to do. We have made heavy use of Max's Ritual knowledge, so that's been fine, but I'm not sure I want to lock in "do some Enchanting project with Max sometime in the next couple turns".
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Locking in Windherding with Max within the next few turns was part of the appeal, honestly. It prompts forward movement on that tech tree, and a "Guard of Steel/Mathilde's Mastered Aetheric Armor" set of robes would be neat for Eike where the 'Indefatigable Saddle' with Egrimm was mostly a throwaway even if it had rolled better.

Eike could even contribute to the latter half of the enchantment, meaning Mathilde's focus would be entirely on Windherding rather than holding up half the enchanting as well. That seems more likely than anything to get a Windherding proc on Eike's Awe for Mathilde trait. And the robes would be 1/3 her own creation, so she would have earned them rather than be handed them.
 
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ReImagined said:
She doesn't need to engage with us personally, no, but if the assumption is that she's staying at K8P, then she's going to be using the Green Tower in Mathilde's home and the Library that Mathilde's built up. All I'm saying is that since her first reaction to us was fear, then a good first step would be addressing that fear directly—namely, that we have no desire to harm her, and that we have every reason to want her to succeed, which is similar to the argument we gave Qrech.
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Well yes, sure, I thought my write-in does that? Do you think we need to be more explicit? "You aren't being interrogated, I'm your master's girlfriend, let me know if you need any help" gets the point across well enough, doesn't it?
picklepikkl said:
As a plan of last resort, if we have a spare WEB-MAT action we could always crank out a book about old coins. The Tylos one would be my preference because of its implications about the origins of the Horned Rat (even leaving out the stuff about ancestral dwarf gods that we have promised not to share).
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We could also map Tilea and Estalia. Seems more useful than starting on a book coin when we have no shortage of favour, and will soon have Morbillion more.
 
I don't want to remind Sofia that we can kill her even in an attempt to get the subject out of the way, alot of people around her could of killed her in her life, it has been a common theme for her, her immediate reaction to us was fight or flight which she clamped down on showing that she both gets the threat we represent and knows she cannot do anything about it, this was a well practiced reaction showing that threats she cannot do anything about are a common thing for her. We are just the latest in a long line who have that over her and I don't think pointing that out will help her or us in any way.
 
picklepikkl said:
Because I would really like Eike to be an Enchanter before we next attempting Windherding so she can hopefully start developing the skill herself. Remember, Windherder is a Skill, not a Trait; it's teachable, it's not something inherent to Mathilde.

...actually, here's a thought. Boney has said that ordering of actions in a turn will be done in such a way as to maximize benefits (within limits of reasonableness and being foreseeable, of course), right? So, what if next turn for the Eike Study action we paid 1 CF for her to go to the college and learn Enchanting? That way, assuming she learned successfully, she'd be able to come back and be part of Windherding later in the same turn. Sure, there's a risk that she doesn't learn Enchanting successfully, but if so then maybe she'll still be able to pick up some tips during the Windherding action?
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This might just be me, but I'd like Mathilde to personally teach Eike Enchanting. Eike would probably learn better from us than from a teacher she's never met, and also, there's a good chance we could teach her the suite of Enchanting Petty spells.

mathymancer said:
Well yes, sure, I thought my write-in does that? Do you think we need to be more explicit? "You aren't being interrogated, I'm your master's girlfriend, let me know if you need any help" gets the point across well enough, doesn't it?

We could also map Tilea and Estalia. Seems more useful than starting on a book coin when we have no shortage of favour, and will soon have Morbillion more.
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I'd be down with more mapping. And hell, we might be able to bring Egrimm onto the Lustrian books and rubbings too. I recall an offhand mention of him starting to learn the language when we first got to Laurelorn.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Aqshy specifically should be fine for some of them, I think. At least in the first edition, where Elementalists existed, Fire magic and Bright magic were so identical that the Fire College pretty much got transplanted wholesale into the rest of the Wind Colleges and the remainders who called themselves elementalists were a few sore losers hanging out in a brick apartment.
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Maybe, i was just thinking it would start at least several fires, and burn the building down.

But in Nuln the biggest wizard is Elspeth von Draken, and i can imagine all their magic turning to death magic would have dire consequenses for any poor elementalist inside the university.
 
Retrueno said:
Personally I like Windherder because of this. It feels like it can be a very interesting avenue of research. And hey, maybe later on Mathilde can somehow find a way to get around the "as long as other Wizards provide the other Winds" bit.
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IMO the easiest way around it is enchantments. Not just windherded enchantments, but potentially things like getting an enchantment of Fire Ball (lesser version) and using IT as the secondary caster on the approved windherding idea of "fire ball+shadow-knives=explosions that appear from where the knives hit (after passing through non-magical defences/armour)".
 
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