Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
-checks a new vote tally
-even though there haven't been any new vote posts so there is no chance things have changed
-looks at preferred plan
-one vote higher
-dopamine ensures I will not learn from this fluke
-even though there haven't been any new vote posts so there is no chance things have changed
-looks at preferred plan
-one vote higher
-dopamine ensures I will not learn from this fluke
Sugar, Herbs, and the Songs of Birds?"Sugar, Herbs, and Everything Nice" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My understanding is that the Eonir also can gradually extract precious metals from those tributaries - it seems like the trees may slowly convert magic into gold and silver in addition to them being a key component in the process, although they do seem to also need an initial deposit to work from.
The problem isn't with getting gold and silver from them at all, it's that Nordland is disinclined to the "gradual" part (because they don't have hundreds of years to accumulate it in), and so instead cuts down the trees, extracts the metal, and then digs up the area to get the deposit they were planted on, meaning they can't even be replanted there.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Inflation isn't a concern but deflation might be, not for the Empire but Laurelorn. Right now large amounts of gold and silver are flowing out of Laurelorn to buy spices and Runic luxury goods while the only source of precious metals flowing into Laurelorn is, well, us. The only things mitigating their massive trade deficit are purchases from Mathilde in the form of equipment from House Miriel which was a one off, and occasional hiring of cityborn scribes to transcribe parts of the Library of Mournings which can't possibly be enough to balance the money that's flowing out of their economy.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Laurelorn doesn't use precious metals for currency, though- believe that was brought up when Mathilde visited the Hekarti house.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Good point, if they use a fiat currency system not backed by gold or silver they wouldn't experience deflation, just the prices of gold and silver gradually rising as supply dwindles.
Well, now I'm sad. It's easy to forget what a tragedy Nehekara is when they're running around killing folks that touch their mummy gold.
[x] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Red Riders)
- [x] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Rider in Red)
- [x] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
- [x] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
- [x] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
- [x] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
- [x] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
-- [x] The Gambler
- [x] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
- [x] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
- [x] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
- [x] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
- [x] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
- [x] Eike Study: Petty Magics
- [x] Contains Overwork
- [x] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Rider in Red)
- [x] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
- [x] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
- [x] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
- [x] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
- [x] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
-- [x] The Gambler
- [x] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
- [x] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
- [x] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
- [x] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
- [x] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
- [x] Eike Study: Petty Magics
- [x] Contains Overwork
- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
This makes me feel a lot more relaxed about the matter and tbh I really should have considered this before, thank you for pointing that out.
Fuck Nordland, let them sort themselves out
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Breadnaugt
Even in Death, I'm still Tasty
- Location
- Britland
Mathild is well situated to get Cathayan books if she's willing to wait a few years for orders to come back.
K8P controls one of the few viable East-West routes, and is a place every trade caravan using Death Pass will stop at, in both directions.
Just need to let it be known a buyer is available for Cathayan books to the East bound merchants. If it's worth their time to give cargo space to books on the return journey, they'll come back with books.
Probably be very expensive though. If cost is an issue, maybe wait until K8P drops the arse out of the Cathayan Silk market, making that particular cargo much less worth hauling across two continents.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Unfortunately, we brought this up before the hiatus and Boney was pretty explicit on how it'd be really difficult.
Putting aside that most traders on the Silk Road risk not coming back, for the weight of a book, they could bring a lot more value, so it's not worth the risk for any of them.
We'd need to essentially promise to compensate them for what they'd normally make in spices or silk in exchange for bringing along a small amount of books - and consider that a single point of Library bonus is usually between an armful and a shelf's worth of books (only rarely is it a single really big or important book). I also recall him saying something along the lines of how traders don't typically have book contacts, so we'd essentially be rolling at random. It wouldn't be worth it even if we were rich beyond our wildest dreams of avarice.
I think I proposed at the time to eventually (far off in the future after the Project is done) make an expedition to Cathay, maybe invite Dragomas along if he's not Supreme Patriarch anymore at the time, do some Protecting, maybe map out their network, and bring back a very careful selection of important books. A real Journey to the
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I doubt the beastmen inherited anything, that would imply a kind of intellectual continuity that is anathema to their culture, the Chaos Gods may have learned of it and are now feeding it to the shamans, but the culture of the Bray Herds would not keep knowledge, even arcane knowledge, of and for itself.
Breadnaugt
Even in Death, I'm still Tasty
- Location
- Britland
Oof, that feels like a deal breaker. I knew it would be painfully expensive, needing to at least price match that much cargo space of spices or silk.
But paying out the nose for whatever is most easily accessible, to people with no contacts in the book market, and no way to even find the kind of stuff we'd want...
And we couldn't even read it. Because i doubt there's someone here who speaks cathayan who can teach us.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Okay, I'm having a hard time making any sense of how this reply follows naturally from my post but... you realize that what I said is something the Beastmen are known to do, right?
Like, not some hypothetical, the Herdstones they erect are literally called out in story as "the exact opposite of waystones, which scares the shit out of anyone with any sense." If I recall the Amber wizard's quote correctly.
The argument is not that the beastmen have some cultural continuity from Tylos or that they secretly know the command codes, it is that those herdstones may exist as a result of Cor Dum (who is arguably a, minor, god of Chaos,) having some lingering memories from his time as Kavzar that were then passed down to the beastmen in their magical Lore.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's people in the University of Altdorf that know and can teach Cathayan - that's how we got translations of the Cathayan Geography books.
But yes, I don't fancy needing to either pay for translations each time we get new Cathayan books, or learn the language just to read books. I'd much rather learn the language as part of having a proper adventure there.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Plus Beastmen are hypocritical, their entire culture is based around being the antithesis of civilization but the very act of having a culture is something that only civilizations have. They have a culture, a language, a society, no matter how much they say they hate civilization it's undeniable that they themselves are also a civilization. It's not much of a stretch to think that they have a system of oral tradition to pass down important information, they may be half beast but they are also half men, with all the baggage that comes with it.
Herdstones are at the centre of a lot of theoretically anathema behaviour. Chieftains carve their names into them. Minotaurs give up marauding to dedicate their lives to guarding them. Corpses are left there instead of eaten, weapons left instead of wielded. They go there to debate strategy and mourn the greatest of their dead.
As for keeping knowledge, they keep the legend of Gorthor alive a thousand years after he died. They build chariots and train animals and fashion banners and instruments. They know things and learn things and build things. They have language, culture, traditions, castes, taboos. They're not just beasts and they're not just vessels for the will of Chaos. They'd be a lot less dangerous if they were.
Yes obviously they do it, but it does not follow that they must have something to do with Cor Dum, it may well be that the Gods of Chaos screamed how they may be perverted into the souls of the Children of Chaos and they have been screaming ever since. Chaos can just know things because they are eldritch abominations older than time, they did know how to break the Gates and screw over the Old Ones after all.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Yet, there are those Beastlords of such potent savagery that their invasions have threatened to bring even the greatest of nations to their very knees. The names of such individuals are roared by the Beastmen with animalistic power when they gather around their herdstones, striking fear into the hearts of Men. The most well-known of these is Gorthor, whose name in the Dark Tongue means "cruel".[2a]
There's a bunch of WoGs on the subject of Nordland economy, here's a few relevant ones:
The short of it is that most of Nordland's economy is fine, but the parts that did suffer from the troubles are some of the most important to the Elector Count - not for practical economical reasons, for but political reasons. I think if things keep going the way they are Nordland will probably survive, but they'll become a less important and wealthy and prestigious province, and that is something they really can't accept. Also officialy losing Laurelorn would make them similar in size to Hochland, that's enough of a reason to go to war all on its own if you ask me.
There's just one house of former boatwrights, House Teleri. Thorek's attempt to sell stone to the Eonir is possibly going to make them start building boats again, and maybe if we cut some trade deals that have to go by sea that'll give them more of an incentive.
Ah, I was thinking of House Quendalmanliye, who are also Mathlann worshipers, but its not mentioned if they are into boat building or not.
So there are two issues that complicate this matter. The first is that Gods sometimes go by different names in different areas. To give a confirmed in-quest example, Halétha is localized to the Forest of Shadows and some territories around it...except not really, because She is worshipped in Kislev as Kalita, who would appear to be an entirely different God to someone who doesn't know any better. As an uncofirmed example, if Shallya is Isha then there's a Goddess that appears to be local to the Old World, but in fact covers a lot more territory. A lot of those seemingly local Gods could in fact be 'global Gods', and in that case what's local isn't really the God itself but rather the way it is worshipped by the local cultures.
The second issue is that I believe it is a mistake to speak of 'Gods' as if they were a single natural type. Multiple categories of Gods may exist, and they might act very different from one another. Ancestor Gods, as you've pointed out, seem to be a distinct category of their own. Humans say Myrmidia was either mortal and then divine, or divine and then mortal and then divine again. The elves say that the Ellinilli escaped to the mortal world and are still there. But those myths also make clear that most Gods aren't in the mortal world. Khsar aka Kavzar aka Morghur appears to be a God that's present in the mortal world, at least according to Borek, but also Khsar seems to have been designed by the Old Ones while the elf Gods were, according to Deathfang, seemingly an accident created by the Old Ones' machines sealing the world from the Realm of Chaos. Those are all beings with different origins and different habitats.
I have a lot more ideas on the nature of Gods, but I won't waste too much of your time and give my simplified hypothesis on the specific issue you're asking:
Some Gods are in the Aethyr, some Gods are in the mortal world (or mostly in the mortal world).
Aethyric Gods, which includes most of the elven pantheon, are mostly or wholly concpetual creatures. They embody certain ideas, and could in principle be worshipped anywhere (though different cultures will probably do so in different ways). Those are the ones you're thinking of in your original model of Gods.
'Mortal Gods' (which are no more mortal than Aethyric Gods) are partly or mostly present in the mortal world. There's an area in the world in which they exist, but they also have some conceptual domains. They're seemingly capable of changing their domains - Morghur did so - but it seems to cost them.
You can't have two different Aethyric Gods with identical domains, because Aethyric Gods are their domains, but you can have a Mortal God and an Aethyric God have similar domains - I believe that's how Kurnous and Taal can both exist. Kurnous is an Aethyric God, and he hangs out in the Heavens of the Cadai, while Taal is a Mortal God that's present somewhere in the Old World, possibly somewhere in the Great Forest or possibly in Athel Loren.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
[X] Plan Codifying and Swords
and approval vote for
[] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
[X] Plan Swordfall and Codifying
[X] Plan Codifying and Swords on a Solid Foundation
and approval vote for
[] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
[X] Plan Swordfall and Codifying
[X] Plan Codifying and Swords on a Solid Foundation
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