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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
so Dieter moved the capital to Altdorf and control of Nuln reverted to the Elector Count of Wissenland.
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Is Altdorf also a Chartered Free Town, or does it remain a part of Reikland?

I can see a lot of arguments for making it a Chartered Free Town, but I'm sure the Elector Count of Reikland would highly disapprove.
 
kingreaper said:
Is Altdorf also a Chartered Free Town, or does it remain a part of Reikland?

I can see a lot of arguments for making it a Chartered Free Town, but I'm sure the Elector Count of Reikland would highly disapprove.
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Altdorf was the original capital of the Empire but was abandoned in favour of Nuln in the 500s, at which point it was a Chartered Free Town (or early equivalent) ruled by the Prince of Altdorf. But the Imperial Palace was built in the 1000s for a later Emperor by the Cult of Sigmar to curry favour that was later cashed in for the first electoral vote for the Cult of Sigmar, after which point Altdorf is both a Chartered Free Town and a home of various Emperors. In the 1100s the Elector Count of Reikland named the Prince of Altdorf his heir out of economic desperation, after which point Altdorf and Reikland ended up in the same situation as Nuln and Wissenland - separate titles but controlled by the same person. The current Emperor is also the Elector Count of Reikland and Prince of Altdorf, but a lot of power and influence is centered in Altdorf these days and if another dynasty becomes Emperor they're likely to try to argue that Altdorf should remain with the Emperor, instead of with the Elector Count of Reikland.
 
If we are bombarding @Boney with questions about charter towns.

I think a more relevant question is what does mathy know about the charter towns in Norland and Middenland.

Are any of them independent enough to be worth looking at as there own policy, like a Norland town that is big into ship building and so not worth trying to talk to at all, but another might be more of a border farm town and so just want things to normalise.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
If we are bombarding @Boney with questions about charter towns.

I think a more relevant question is what does mathy know about the charter towns in Norland and Middenland.

Are any of them independent enough to be worth looking at as there own policy, like a Norland town that is big into ship building and so not worth trying to talk to at all, but another might be more of a border farm town and so just want things to normalise.
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Nordland's capital Salzenmund is a chartered free town, which puts the Elector Count in a tricky position where he has to pay more attention than he otherwise might to the concerns of the city's nobles and guilds, most of whom had built fortunes around the silver and lumber that they no longer have access to. Middenland has Delberz and Carroburg, but both are too far south to have much influence on matters in Laurelorn.

Alratan said:
Middenheim is also an independent province (from 555IC) in personal Union with Middenland, I believe.
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The Middenheim/Middenland thing is complicated and confusing and often self-contradictory, but yes, in the current era both titles are held by Boris X Todbringer.
 
Nordland's capital Salzenmund is a chartered free town, which puts the Elector Count in a tricky position where he has to pay more attention than he otherwise might to the concerns of the city's nobles and guilds, most of whom had built fortunes around the silver and lumber that they no longer have access to. Middenland has Delberz and Carroburg, but both are too far south to have much influence on matters in Laurelorn.
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I got a lot of push-back on all the good reasons it would be very difficult to establish any trade with Tor Lithanel (or even some of the Forestborn with excess production), but figuring something out and finding a way to route it through Salzenmund would go a long way towards orienting that city to long term peace. The nobles and guilds are never going to let it go unless there's some other revenue source flowing out of Laurelorn that they can profit from.
 
K von Carstein said:
Isn't elvish craft highly desired by imperial nobles? Trade of Elvish luxury goods could do wonders for Nordland's economy.
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The difficult thing (or at least one difficulty) is that right now (as seen through the last update) the path from Salzenmund to Tor Lithanel goes directly through a swamp. And the road that does exist is getting worse, not better.

Now "building a road through a swamp" is not beyond the reach of Imperial or elven technology, but another word for a "road" is "invasion path" so... I don't know, do the big brains in the thread have any ideas? A regular trade relationship with Laurelorn with do a lot to ease human/elven relations, but how can you physically move the goods around without compromising the defenses of Laurelorn?
 
K von Carstein said:
Isn't elvish craft highly desired by imperial nobles? Trade of Elvish luxury goods could do wonders for Nordland's economy.
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Ulthuani craft is highly valued, but I'm not sure we know what Laurelorn produces in surplus.

Or what they'd want. They can use the money they'd receive to hire mercenaries to deploy against the beastmen, but I'm not sure how sustainable that is.
 
Briefvoice said:
The difficult thing (or at least one difficulty) is that right now (as seen through the last update) the path from Salzenmund to Tor Lithanel goes directly through a swamp. And the road that does exist is getting worse, not better.

Now "building a road through a swamp" is not beyond the reach of Imperial or elven technology, but another word for a "road" is "invasion path" so... I don't know, do the big brains in the thread have any ideas? A regular trade relationship with Laurelorn with do a lot to ease human/elven relations, but how can you physically move the goods around without compromising the defenses of Laurelorn?
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Send them up to the coast and then ship them. Much more expensive though.
 
Briefvoice said:
The difficult thing (or at least one difficulty) is that right now (as seen through the last update) the path from Salzenmund to Tor Lithanel goes directly through a swamp. And the road that does exist is getting worse, not better.

Now "building a road through a swamp" is not beyond the reach of Imperial or elven technology, but another word for a "road" is "invasion path" so... I don't know, do the big brains in the thread have any ideas? A regular trade relationship with Laurelorn with do a lot to ease human/elven relations, but how can you physically move the goods around without compromising the defenses of Laurelorn?
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There's three paths out of Laurelorn. The one south goes through the swamp into Middenland, which is the one Mathilde has been using. The one east goes through the ruins of Kor Immarmor and then the ruins of Oldenlitz before reaching Salzenmund, which is the one Mathilde used to visit Cadaeth at Oldenlitz. And the one northwest goes to the Tower of Se-Athil on an otherwise uninhabited stretch of coastline.

 
There is also the issue that the Eonir probably hate the lumber barons, like really really 'I wish you would die in Khaine's flames' hate them. I do not think they would be fine with enriching those same people with their trade as a bribe.
 
Briefvoice said:
The difficult thing (or at least one difficulty) is that right now (as seen through the last update) the path from Salzenmund to Tor Lithanel goes directly through a swamp. And the road that does exist is getting worse, not better.

Now "building a road through a swamp" is not beyond the reach of Imperial or elven technology, but another word for a "road" is "invasion path" so... I don't know, do the big brains in the thread have any ideas? A regular trade relationship with Laurelorn with do a lot to ease human/elven relations, but how can you physically move the goods around without compromising the defenses of Laurelorn?
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the only thing I can think of with the info that we have, that's not just throwing shit into the wind, is to promote the idea that Nordland is profit orientated, and if you want to influence them, its better to have people in Nordland to argue things before they are an issue instead of staying distant and only finding out their plans when they inact them.

then let elfs come to their own conclusions

and then work with the warden of the storm with sea trade.

the only problem being that we need to convince the elfs to work with the same nobles that have been fucking with them up to now, and visa virsa.
 
Briefvoice said:
The difficult thing (or at least one difficulty) is that right now (as seen through the last update) the path from Salzenmund to Tor Lithanel goes directly through a swamp. And the road that does exist is getting worse, not better.

Now "building a road through a swamp" is not beyond the reach of Imperial or elven technology, but another word for a "road" is "invasion path" so... I don't know, do the big brains in the thread have any ideas? A regular trade relationship with Laurelorn with do a lot to ease human/elven relations, but how can you physically move the goods around without compromising the defenses of Laurelorn?
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A trading post humans aren't allowed past, perhaps?
DragonParadox said:
There is also the issue that the Eonir probably hate the lumber barons, like really really 'I wish you would die in Khaine's flames' hate them. I do not think they would be fine with enriching those same people with their trade as a bribe.
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They despise them, but they were still letting them get rich via slow encroachment, and that was killing them.
 
The make trade with the Eonir based on Elven goods idea also depends on what Elven goods the Empire likes to buy. I'm not imagining they make much jewelry here for example, because they don't seem to want to mine. So while it's a possibility it's one that I think needs to be investigated further.

Deathbybunnies said:
They despise them, but they were still letting them get rich via slow encroachment, and that was killing them.
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Being fair, their other choice there was "start a war" which might well have killed them faster.
 
DragonParadox said:
There is also the issue that the Eonir probably hate the lumber barons, like really really 'I wish you would die in Khaine's flames' hate them. I do not think they would be fine with enriching those same people with their trade as a bribe.
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"Don't worry, in a mere 50 to 60 years or so you won't be enriching anyone who ever took any lumber."

deathofrats0808 said:
The make trade with the Eonir based on Elven goods idea also depends on what Elven goods the Empire likes to buy. I'm not imagining they make much jewelry here for example, because they don't seem to want to mine. So while it's a possibility it's one that I think needs to be investigated further.
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I have a lot of faith in elven craftsmanship. No matter what they make, it'll be equivalent or better to the highest quality human goods. I'm sure there's something. As to what human goods they might want to buy in turn, they're starved for novelty and one thing humans are good at is always coming up with something new. By the time they get bored with the current crop of Empire goods, humans will have come up with some new nonsense.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
They despise them, but they were still letting them get rich via slow encroachment, and that was killing the.
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They do have other options now though. These may well involve exploiting the fact that they now have much better information sources about the internal politics of the Empire and the identity of the lumber barons to simply take them out generation after generation and let natural selection do the rest. The kind of capabilities required to defend against an experienced elven magic using assassin are restricted in the Empire, and probably not available to relatively minor figures that are breaking treaties with a friendly power.

And that's if the Grey College doesn't do it for them.
 
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