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Then how would Nordland continue to have income? I'm trying to think of something that [the people with money and power in] Nordland can be strong-armed into agreeing to, and 'we will cut off the fingers of the people sent in at the word of those with power to cut down trees' lacks any sort of carrot/economic replacement for current forestry activities.
 
Then how would Nordland continue to have income? I'm trying to think of something that [the people with money and power in] Nordland can be strong-armed into agreeing to, and 'we will cut off the fingers of the people sent in at the word of those with power to cut down trees' lacks any sort of carrot/economic replacement for current forestry activities.

They would need to refocus. Probably on fishing, farming, boatbuilding, stuff like that.

I admit I had been on the wagon of figuring out something to get Nordland invested, but I've come around to the idea that they're trying to get compensation for property they stole.
 
They would need to refocus. Probably on fishing, farming, boatbuilding, stuff like that.

I admit I had been on the wagon of figuring out something to get Nordland invested, but I've come around to the idea that they're trying to get compensation for property they stole.
Oh, I am 100% in agreement that they are in the wrong and have been for a longgg time.

But my idea isn't about fairness, or justice or right and wrong, it's about getting Nordland to agree to a deal they will stick to, and 'figure it out, you don't deserve help/to be supplied with an alternative' is a lot harder to get the rest of the Empire to force Nordland agree to than if there is something that can take the place of their current forestry industry.

[again, I haven't bothered thinking of anything for the precious metals industry. Slightly more/faster growing trees?]
 
If the Eonir could do that, they would probably be exporting massive quantities of lumber themselves; they certainly wouldn't need to import Imperial charcoal. And this would be just as bad for Nordland's economy in the long term, as people go directly to the Eonir and say "Heyyyy, you guys want to maybe consider doing that for us so we don't have to import from Nordland? We'll pay. A lot."
 
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The problem with that line of reasoning can be summarized thus:

Do we think the Asur somehow did not notice the race of chaos eating sentient rat people with warrens under every city in the Old Wold, including Marianburg?

I do not think that is the case. The idea that they would not know how to turn off stones leading to a nexus that had been tainted is also kind of hard to swallow, so they must have chosen not to do it... for several thousand years. This is not a Vlag situation where the elves would have no way of knowing the stones were put to the use of Chaos, they have significant presence in Tilea. My guess for why the Asur have not turned off Skavenblight if such a thing can be done is that it would unite the underempire in rage and cause a rat apocalypse in Tilea and beyond.
Sounds like Tilea's problem :V

More seriously - that's a very valid point, but the coincidence is startling enough that I'm inclined to keep an eye out, regardless. If the Asur haven't actively checked for diversions, I could see a crafty increase in leeching over time going undetected, or being written off as general attrition elsewhere in the network. Whilst we think Caledor Dragontamer has a decent idea of what the network looks like in his living hell, we don't actually know how much information the Asur in general are getting.
I'll chime in here because I think it's worth pointing out here that Skavenblight/the borderlands wouldn't be the first place to lose connection entirely. Look at the Forest of Shadows and the state it's fallen to after the Brass Keep and others were lost, or how Stirland once fed the nexus in the city of Mordheim. For that matter, how the Asur were powerless to actually stop Kislev from making their own mini-vortex. The Asur being unable to stop a polity like the Skaven subverting the network to their own ends wouldn't unprecedented and not necessarily reliant on military force.

A more worrying prospect occurs to me:

Before, that city became Skavenblight, Tylos was a mixed dwarven-human settlement. Likewise, the Horned Rat is implied to be a pre-Ancestor Dawi God. If the network there were of Dwarven design instead of Elven, the Skaven might have inherited the command codes. Certainly if the Dawi of Tylos trusted their gods with the secrets of the network, it would explain how the Beastmen attained the secrets necessary to make anti-waystones after Kavzar became Cor Dum, and might even be how the ringing of the bell brought the Doom of Kavzar that it did.

I'll submit the prospect to debate that turning the flow off and on again isn't a solution to the problem, because turning the system off while the whole borderlands was feeding it may have been be exactly what the Horned Rat did.
 
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If the Eonir could do that, they would probably be exporting massive quantities of lumber themselves; they certainly wouldn't need to import Imperial charcoal. And this would be just as bad for Nordland's economy in the long term, as people go directly to the Eonir and say "Heyyyy, you guys want to maybe consider doing that for us so we don't have to import from Nordland? We'll pay. A lot."
Two very good points right there. Darn :/
 
This does have me kinda curious. I remember that either the articles or just the grey college had something prohibiting us from interfering in internal politics of the empire. Does anyone remember the particulars of that? Because if we want to get involved in this mess between Nordland and middenland that seems like an important line to be aware of.

It's a kind of complicated interweaving of the Articles. Article 6 says that Wizards in general can only use magic while 'outside of the theatre of war and in public view' if they are acting in the service of an Employer or 'for demonstrably good reason', and Article 12 goes on to say that Employers cannot be 'enemies of Sigmar's Holy Empire or the people' and that said employment doesn't trump the Articles. That leads you back to Article 1, which lays out that the Empire, its laws and ideals, the Emperor, and a Wizard's superiors are all higher priorities than those Employers. Then you have Articles 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, and 15, which says that a Wizard must drop what they're doing if they're called on to assist an Elector, a diplomatic mission, the military, the Templars, or if they identify any unsanctioned magic users or any 'destructive and anti-Imperial machinations' that use 'any sorcerous or infernal means' and aren't already being taken care of.

In theory, this means that all Wizards are required to stay out of internal politicking except in service of the Emperor. The Grey Wizards don't so much have an extra rule upon them as they have an enforced interpretation to the above rules that says that under normal circumstances any Grey Wizard serving individual political entities within the Empire is against the interest of the Empire as a whole. This is for the same reason as the Vow of Poverty: a Grey Wizard's spells make it very, very easy for a Grey Wizard, or an employer of one, to gain money and power at the expense of others.

Exceptions to this are carved out as needed. It's very easy to make an argument why the Elector Count of Stirland having a Grey Wizard in their employ is in the interest of the Empire as a whole, whereas, say, Nordland trying to hire one around now probably wouldn't be.

Can you keep on working on a spell to reduce it's difficulty? Like, we keep on re-doing ROW untill it get easier to cast? Or is it locked in stone once it's been successful developed? In a more theoretical scenario

There'll be a roll for how difficult the 'ideal' codification is, and then another (or a series thereof) for how close Mathilde gets to it. The latter can be rerolled, but the former will be set in stone - in-universe it already is set in stone, the roll just hasn't been made 'on-screen' yet.

It is BM for the first casting but I am going to need a quate on its behavior over time as well because I think casting it once is enough to keep it going. No time limit is ever mentioned anywhere.
It's definitely Battle Magic, but we don't actually know its duration...there are Battle Magic spells that last a while. If it lasts five minutes, or an hour, or a day is not super clear. And if it lasts a day the use cases are a lot broader than if it lasts five minutes.
This does sounds like a thing to ask boney.
@Boney does rite of way need to be recast at some point or is it just a matter of having magic and keeping on chanting?

There are a lot of Battle Magic spells that last until either dispelled or are ended by the caster without requiring further casting rolls, but prevent the caster from using any other spells while they're active. This would use the same rules, so it can be assumed that any Wizard capable of casting it can keep it going for maybe half an hour without issues, and length beyond that depends on that Wizard's willpower, concentration, ability, and how difficult the codified spell ends up being. It would be theoretically very possible for a Battle Altar to maintain this effect, the Luminark of Hysh and Celestial Hurricanum have 'Locus of Hysh' and 'Portents of Battle' respectively that give constant boons equivalent to low-level Battle Magic to everyone around them on top of their main purpose of pumping out lasers or bad weather.

@Boney If you don´t mind I have a few questions about how this option for the library will work...

This would work merely as a closed bounty system (i.e. 3000 gold crows for The Book of Ashur)? Or as an open bounty system (i.e. looking for The Book of Ashur price is negotiable)?

It will only work for acquiring titles we establish a bounty on? Or the Cult of Ranald could approach us on their own initiative offering us some rare books in exchange for money and/or favors?

How this would work in the Library Purchases section? We will use the action to register the bounties with the actions and will be acquired automatically when they are available, or we would need another action to purchase them?

The way it'd probably work is to have a new option for book acquisitions where you can designate a target as widely or as narrowly as the thread likes.
 
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A stray question for Boney: Has Mira been officially declared the Matriarch of the light college, or is she still just the acting one?
 
Also the eviction proper happened before the K8P campaign, over a decade in the quest timeline. I don't doubt that the economic effects from that are still being felt and that there are large segments of Nordland that haven't managed to repivot in the past decade. But if if things were as economically dire as the more pessimistic takes view it I think it would've blown up looonnnnggg ago.
 
The way it'd probably work is to have a new option for book acquisitions where you can designate a target as widely or as narrowly as the thread likes.
That might be very interesting as an option for adding bonuses to topics we've already maxed out Imperial/Dwarf, by specifying books from regions we'd never otherwise be able to visit. Any Cathayan books, for instance (though, you know, translation issues).
 
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That might be very interesting as an option for adding bonuses to topics we've already maxed out Imperial/Dwarf, by specifying books from regions we'd never otherwise be able to visit. Any Cathayan books, for instance (though, you know, translation issues).
I don't think the influence of the Cult of Ranald stretches as far as Cathay.
 
We've been looking into what Laurelorn might want to import from the outside world but there's something else we haven't looked into, what Laurelorn might want to export to the outside world. If we can find the Laurelorn equivalent of Runic luxury goods, something of high trade value but no military value and is easy to transport and something only Laurelorn can provide, we might be able to strike a deal with a House where we buy whatever they have to offer and they get gold to spend getting stuff they want from other Houses.
 
Does Nehekhara have trade with the rest of the world, like Araby for example? Because if so, that'd maybe be a way of acquiring Nehekharan books.

Some of them do, sometimes for things they actually need and other times because they remember that it's important to have full granaries without remembering why, but these trades are of raw materials and trade goods. You might be able to get Nehekharan papyrus from Araby but not scrolls, or at least not ones that Nehekhara has willingly exported.
 
Some of them do, sometimes for things they actually need and other times because they remember that it's important to have full granaries without remembering why, but these trades are of raw materials and trade goods. You might be able to get Nehekharan papyrus from Araby but not scrolls, or at least not ones that Nehekhara has willingly exported.
If they want full granaries but don't eat anything, what's going on with the grain that makes them need to refill the granaries more than once?
 
We've been looking into what Laurelorn might want to import from the outside world but there's something else we haven't looked into, what Laurelorn might want to export to the outside world. If we can find the Laurelorn equivalent of Runic luxury goods, something of high trade value but no military value and is easy to transport and something only Laurelorn can provide, we might be able to strike a deal with a House where we buy whatever they have to offer and they get gold to spend getting stuff they want from other Houses.
If we want to be extremely cynical about it: imports are relatively safe politically. If we look for exports, however, there's a very good chance they'll end up coming from the Forestborn. Suddenly, ongoing economic exchange with the Empire is enriching/empowering a disenfranchised political bloc, which incentivises the established powers (who we're relying on to keep the Waystones project aloft) to maybe rethink their vote on this open-borders thing.
 
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We've been looking into what Laurelorn might want to import from the outside world but there's something else we haven't looked into, what Laurelorn might want to export to the outside world. If we can find the Laurelorn equivalent of Runic luxury goods, something of high trade value but no military value and is easy to transport and something only Laurelorn can provide, we might be able to strike a deal with a House where we buy whatever they have to offer and they get gold to spend getting stuff they want from other Houses.

Idle thought, but there's two boatbuilding houses, right? And the Empire is pretty dependent upon its rivers for transport. So we might want to export Eonir crafted boats—especially since there's that new canal linking the Empire to the Karaz Ankor.

We could potentially upgrade the EIC's navy, assuming elven boats are in any way superior to human ones.

Also assuming the boat houses remember how to make a boat, and can do so in a timely manner.
 
The AV book is functionally ready to write right now. The one remaining application (liminal realms) had an exploratory action that showed it to be possible, but not a particularly good use of the limited resource (the conversion rate is appalling, and from Mathy's non-dice-seeing perspective, it comes with demons). We can totally write the book and leave that as a footnote, and it will be complete. But no, another action is due to be spent in a turn or two pursuing a path that we'll never really make use of, just so we can say we ticked all the boxes. And that vote will be a landslide.
The book's actually listed as missing both Liminal Realms and the Orbs of Sorcery for "complete" status. For liminal realms, applying Powerstone creation methods to AV was an immediately obvious step for us and Mathilde, and not giving a guide on "how not to invite a greater Daemon of Tzeentch into your living room" on the subject feels much sketchier than releasing a crummy mushrooms book would have.

Also - and this isn't really in response to you or your comment, but it's related - personally, I think liminal realms are rad? They show up everywhere, from the dwarven afterlife to the Grey College to the souls of forests (and presumably the World Roots) and seem like exactly the sort of topic that would lead to unexpected discoveries down the line.

On a more practical level, I'm not above the allure of a portable pocket dimension to hold stuff. Some people immediately decried the similarities to D&D's Bags of Holding, as though Hammerspaces/Spatial Rings/Inner Worlds/Inventories (LitRPGs, ehhhh...) haven't shown up in almost every high fantasy setting ever because portable storage dimensions are extremely cool and useful. I'm not willing to cede that fantasy trope as being D&D's domain, and neither should anyone else.
 
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