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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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IronFist said:
But first we need to get more information from the Grey college/Grey Lords about how to keep the demons away.

Otherwise we'd be engaging in an abominable act.
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From things Boney has said, it seems that next turn we will have a new action on our list to do the liminal realm experiment again with a better idea of what is going on and what the risks are -- after all, "demons appear" wasn't an inevitable consequence of the action, it was a result of us rolling a 1 on it. At no point did he say that further research would be an abominable act; I suspect that the "figure out how to avoid surprise demon" research will be part of the AP we spend on it, if we choose to do it.
 
Whilst i'm not certain how much of that is accurate (E.G. If the machines affect a global area, why isn't it also affecting our Snake Box?), I'm pretty sure it's a major step in the right direction.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
No, it's Widowmaker, a cursed blade sacred to Khaine, forged by Vaul in Draugnir's fiery breath.
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Which further cements the idea that the Elven Gods were once dudes who actually existed.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
As I understand it, the creation of Liminal Realms doesn't include demon summoning, we were just unfortunate to get a demon at the same time that attacked us via our Liminal Realm.

Of course, we need to repeat the experiment to prove that.
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picklepikkl said:
From things Boney has said, it seems that next turn we will have a new action on our list to do the liminal realm experiment again with a better idea of what is going on and what the risks are -- after all, "demons appear" wasn't an inevitable consequence of the action, it was a result of us rolling a 1 on it. At no point did he say that further research would be an abominable act; I suspect that the "figure out how to avoid surprise demon research" will be part of the AP we spend on it, if we choose to do it.
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I'm not saying that the act itself is abominable, hence the "extra steps".
But Mathilde knows she's being watched by Tzeentch gribblies, so I wouldn't be surprised if she repeats the experiment and another bird pops up just to fuck with her.

in any case, I hope it works out the way picklepikkl says, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had to put in some extra work to get there.
 
FallenPears said:
Also, I don't suppose 'But Draugnir lay dead, having given all he had to create a terrible blade that had held back the Daemonic legions.' could be related to the Sword of Tlanxla? This seems a lot more likely to be a coincidence to me, do we know what this sword is referring to?
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Draugnir's death is linked to the Widowmaker. I find it unlikely (although not impossible) that it's the same as the Sword of Tlanxla. The mention of the Grey College "usurping" the thing and the myth about Verena (or maybe Hoeth) fighting a Daemon called Ulgu for it makes me think it's soemthing to do with the Wind they wield, rather than being an actual sword.
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
The consequences of raw, unfiltered hubris for one.
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Meet Maximilian Schreiber,
  • renegade wizard who casts from more than one wind and...
  • you would think the next words are Chaos Cultist, but no...
  • reinstated Wizard of the Imperial Colleges of magic, inventor in anti-Chaos talismans
You want to get that fated trait off our sheet this is the scale of insanity you probably have to perform and trying to fingerprint Tzeench sounds about on that level

Still more likely to drive you insane and mutate you. I never said it was a good chance. :V
 
DragonParadox said:
Meet Maximilian Schreiber,
  • renegade wizard who casts from more than one wind and...
  • you would think the next words are Chaos Cultist, but no...
  • reinstated Wizard of the Imperial Colleges of magic, inventor in anti-Chaos talismans
You want to get that fated trait off our sheet this is the scale of insanity you probably have to perform and trying to fingerprint Tzeench sounds about on that level

Still more likely to drive you insane and mutate you. I never said it was a good chance. :V
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I don't think Boney would have Schreiber exist in quest-canon the way he is in G&F.
 
picklepikkl said:
From things Boney has said, it seems that next turn we will have a new action on our list to do the liminal realm experiment again with a better idea of what is going on and what the risks are -- after all, "demons appear" wasn't an inevitable consequence of the action, it was a result of us rolling a 1 on it. At no point did he say that further research would be an abominable act; I suspect that the "figure out how to avoid surprise demon" research will be part of the AP we spend on it, if we choose to do it.
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There may be other options that we can take, such as speaking to the Eonir or to the Gunnars about Gazul Lore to gather extra information.

Given that liminal realms of woodlands are a possible subject for Waystone research, then we've a plausible excuse for asking about how liminal realms are protected from daemons, as that's important to know if we're going to be putting leylines there.

Knowing how to make new safe liminal realms is also very relevant to the general applicability of that approach.

That's assuming the Waystone project hasn't been shit down by then of course.
 
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Alratan said:
There may be other options that we can take, such as speaking to the Eonir or to the Gunnars about Gazul Lore to gather extra information.

Given that liminal realms of woodlands are a possible subject for Waystone research, then we've a plausible excuse for asking about how liminal realms are protected from daemons, as that's important to know if we're going to be putting leylines there.

Knowing how to make new safe liminal realms is also very relevant to the general applicability of that approach.
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I'd also maybe like to experiment with Making a Liminal Realm from Within a Liminal realm.

...Actually - lets save that for another foolish sap after we release the papers. Sounds like it's got a decent shot at getting us telefragged
 
DragonParadox said:
Meet Marty Stu,
  • renegade wizard who casts from more than one wind and...
  • you would think the next words are Chaos Cultist, but no...
  • reinstated Wizard of the Imperial Colleges of magic, inventor in anti-Chaos talismans
You want to get that fated trait off our sheet this is the scale of insanity you probably have to perform and trying to fingerprint Tzeench sounds about on that level

Still more likely to drive you insane and mutate you. I never said it was a good chance. :V
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I fixed that for you.
 
Mopman43 said:
No, I mean I think Schreiber flat-out couldn't exist in DL-canon*, anymore than Genevieve, who Boney has explicitly said doesn't exist in-quest.

*Mostly for the multi-wind casting
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I seem to recall Boney calling out the anti-chaos research as being at the end of a potential very long research chain. One moment while I look for it.

Ah, here it is:

Boney said:
He was booted from the Colleges for his insistence on studying Chaos, then he spent a long time hunting and interrogating Chaos Sorcerers, and then spent five years bankrolled by Borek's second expedition to develop the protections. They're from the end of a very tall and very forbidden tech tree.
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So yeah it looks like something that could exist, probably not the multi-wind casting though
 
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I wonder, for next turn we could work on Branarhune as a WEB-MAT action with Johan and Kadoh. Maybe include Eike as well. Mathilde just got her training blade for the style and well training against an actual person would be better then the idea of a person. Kadoh probably has plenty of advice for Mathilde to make use of.
 
Actually wait.

We have another example of something affecting AV in a way that can't be accounted for with background reality/unreality
Boney said:
First, the most dangerous and least desirable transformation. Pure warpstone gives a range in yards, refined warpstone in inches. Morrsleib with a clear sky can still trigger it while waning, while an overcast night is only dangerous when Morrsleib is full. A trip into the formerly Skaven territories confirms that ambient Dhar can trigger the transformation, but only at levels equivalent to recent Battle Magic use. You spend some time on equations trying to reconcile these numbers, and confirm that if one assumes Morrsleib is 'merely' a source of ambient Dhar, it should not be anywhere near sufficient for the transformation. But then, Morrsleib has never been merely anything, as the fact that its phase can sometimes be visibly different in places mere miles apart can attest.
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Now of course, Morrslieb is Morrslieb, but that's another example of the Vitae being induced through an unknown mechanism.
 
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keykingdom said:
So i have a friend with novel Ai and I convince him to try to make mathilde.

Could anyone give me a detailed description of her that he could use it as prompts?

That would help a lot.
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I was fiddling around earlier and remembered your comment.

I wasn't really shooting for Mathilde, just my new avatar, but using the studio trigger art style prompt + Bloodborne seems to consistently net an art-style that's at least in the right ballpark for warhammer fantasy. I never had much luck actually trying to prompt anything directly warhammer related. Too much 40k cross over, too many factions, too much work to negatively prompt it all.

Did your friend ever end up giving Mathilde a shot? I'm kind of tempted to after my latest (relative) success.
 
FallenPears said:
My best guess if it's not some mystical Aether related reason, maybe all of the 'barrier' acts as the same 'point' when exposed to our reality or liminal realms with the same properties. That is, all of said barrier acts a solid wall and also absorbs energy and light, and emits that energy at the same rate across the surfaces of all of the barrier. All of it, at once. That is, if you shine a light on said barrier, that light is absorbed and evenly distributed to all dimensional barriers across the entire universe, so the average of the light and heat all barriers are exposed to is what any given point on the barrier emits. Hence why it has a colour rather than being an absolute black or mirror, which happens to be this dim grey colour.
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My guess: the liminal realm between the Aethyr and the physical world either is, or is a part of, the metaphysical manifestation of the concept of 'boundary' in the Aethyr. It's grey because grey is a "liminal color", being between black and white. See also Ulgu, the Grey wind of boundaries (among other things).
 
HungryHamadryad said:
I was fiddling around earlier and remembered your comment.

I wasn't really shooting for Mathilde, just my new avatar, but using the studio trigger art style prompt + Bloodborne seems to consistently net an art-style that's at least in the right ballpark for warhammer fantasy. I never had much luck actually trying to prompt anything directly warhammer related. Too much 40k cross over, too many factions, too much work to negatively prompt it all.

Did your friend ever end up giving Mathilde a shot? I'm kind of tempted to after my latest (relative) success.
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He has been busy in these last few days.

I should get it(or not)in a couple of days.

Do you know how to get the hat right? he couldn't.
 
Alratan said:
There may be other options that we can take, such as speaking to the Eonir or to the Gunnars about Gazul Lore to gather extra information.
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If there are, then I think there is no way we do it; I would just vote to write the book in that case and let other researchers take it from there. Shaking loose an extra AP to try again is going to be a tall enough order when there are so many things we want to do and so many people who are burnt out on AV and I suspect there's a reasonable chance we don't do it. The bad roll costing us two extra AP? Never gonna happen, let other people buy AV from us and do the research themselves.

Based on other times we've had a "roll badly" lead to being able to pay an extra AP to try again (MMM paper, Rite of Way, and Branarhune; though we haven't actually reached the point of the last, Boney has said some about what it entails) the "do research and gather extra information" has been folded into the retry AP, rather than being an additional preparatory action.
 
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picklepikkl said:
If there are, then I think there is no way we do it; I would just vote to write the book in that case and let other researchers take it from there. Shaking loose an extra AP to try again is going to be a tall enough order when there are so many things we want to do and so many people who are burnt out on AV and I suspect there's a reasonable chance we don't do it. The bad roll costing us two extra AP? Never gonna happen, let other people buy AV from us and do the research themselves.
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There are literally no other researchers who could take this forward.

Getting Gazulite Lore or getting access to Laurelorn's lore on protecting liminal realms is something that Mathilde is literally uniquely capable of and no other human wizard can do. For the first of these, she's literally the only wizard in existence who can.

Lots of other wizards or people can do many of the things Mathilde can. This is not one of them.
 
Alratan said:
There are literally no other researchers who could take this forward.
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Algard may not have any friends in Laurelorn, but he has quite a bit more experience working with liminal realms than Mathilde.

Probably the biggest issue will be him managing to shake AP loose from his schedule.

...Now I have the image of him quitting the job purely to work with AV.
 
keykingdom said:
Do you know how to get the hat right? he couldn't.
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Hats are tricky creatures, and the AI really loves traditional pointed wizard hats. I suspect there's some process at work here similar to carcinization wherein all hats must eventually converge to a point.
More seriously, my best results in that vein have all been prompting bloodborne and other gothic adjacent settings because most of the time when I attempt a more traditional fantasy prompt, I get one of three outcomes;

Pointy wizard hat.

Eldritch abomination.

Exotic dancer with a wand and/or staff.

Witch hunter caps be hard, yo. This is the sample set I baked my avatar from, and bottom right definitely wanted to be flat topped, but decided to crop right there.
The specific style of hat Mathilde wears is called a "capotain" (I think) which has given me mixed results. If your friend were willing to grind away at it for a while, that might be enough to get a satisfactory result.
 
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Mopman43 said:
Algard may not have any friends in Laurelorn, but he has quite a bit more experience working with liminal realms than Mathilde.

Probably the biggest issue will be him managing to shake AP loose from his schedule.

...Now I have the image of him quitting the job purely to work with AV.
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I don't believe he can get the information from Laurelorn, and he certainly can't from Gunnars. He's been trying to research liminal realms for decades and having very limited success. Even if he can shake any AP loose they're probably very, very low efficiency as we're not actually giving him anything to work with that he can use to understand how to protect liminal realms from daemons. Just telling him liminal realms are vulnerable to daemonic attack is giving him a problem with no potential routes to address it.

Mathilde, by contrast, has two strong options, both of which could lead somewhere, and could well synergise to produce something even better that what either can manage alone. Him trying to invent something from nothing is likely to make vastly less progress than standing on the shoulders of giants.

Even better, it may advance the Waystone Project, as hooking into liminal realms is one way of improving the network.
 
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