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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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ReImagined said:
It was able to sense the reactivation of the Karak Waystones, at least, so it's able to detect some things at that distance. On that note, I hope that Runesmith Crag has made some progress :V
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Bok might be tied into the Karak Waystone network. As far as we know it hasn't left the mountains, which might indicate that it draws power from them or that it was programmed to stay there unless otherwise ordered.
 
Jeopardizer said:
On a completly different note, I know there have been discussions about making a drycha staff and giving it to Eike, but has the possibility of teaching Eike enchanting and staff-turning been raised? There is a nice position to grab at the college for anybody willing to spend a lot of time turning wood/bone and could make for a nice / non-combat oriented career. Plus even if Eike actually hates making staves, she could use knowledge of what goes into it and enchanting in general to turn her share of the EIC in a supplier for that sort of things.
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Yeah, I mentioned the idea a bunch of times:
mathymancer said:
On the subject of staff turning, let the record once more show that the staff is the favoured weapon of the Shallyan fate, and that staff turning is a perfectly respectable job for a Wizard which would prefer to have a desk job rather than go out to the world and stab things in the back. Eike is apprenticed to a seasoned enchanter with a proven track record of making great staffs (literally all staffs Mathilde made were really good) and if she inherits the EIC she will have a steady stream of income that she'll have to put to good use due to the vow of povery. One possible use for a lot of money is buying materials for enchanting and staff turning, such as dragon bones and bottom halves of Dryads.
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If we want to expose Eike to enchantment in general, we have a few upcoming projects that she could tag along on: Windherding, studying the Kurgan weapons, and enchanting the mist road (after will finally codify RoW). Staff turning specifically I don't think we can really expose Eike to, we do have Drycha's lower half lying around but I don't think we have any particular need for a staff anytime soon considering how good our current one is, so if she takes to enchanting I'll leave it to Eike to decide if staff turning in particular is something she's interested in.
 
Lightwhispers said:
-Chance to have her hat stolen in the presence of Tzeentchian sorcery. 🤠


So, I have realized we have different interpretations of what the option for mentioning the Greater Daemon to the College involves.
-You think it is Mathilde saying "I don't trust myself to deal with temptation".
-I think it's Mathilde saying "I have confirmation that a Greater Daemon is targeting me, and so communications and such need enhanced scrutiny to ensure they aren't tampered with". Because I do not agree with your presumption that the College is taking the maximul level of precautions they can take.

@Boney - which of us is closer to what the vote means?
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I mean if he answers that question he'd basically be answering 'which way do you think we should vote?' Somehow I do not think that would happen.
 
At the end of the day, idk if this vote is extremely important -- worst case scenario, we're out of AP hell permanent-like :V
 
Well. Getting caught up with the thread has been an ordeal.

Lots of people saying that the only reason to mention the demon is because we want them to trust us less and, that seems highly dependent on framing? Like, if we just roll in and go, 'hey, wanted to let you know I saw a lord of change, it said some interesting stuff about possible everchosen coming, later.' That is kinda sus, yeah. If we go, 'Hey, an experiment of mine made a tiny liminal realm, apparently greater demons can burrow into those, any advice on preventing a recurrence Algard, guy who I know has spent his entire life studying liminal realms and probably knows the most about the one we are currently in?' I feel like that would give the greater demon context more purpose. I guess a lot of people want to keep liminal stuff secret until we can drop the av book, but I'm not too concerned about it personally.

[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening

[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
 
So a third of a gallon of AV creates a liminal realm about 2 cubic meters in size.

How much AV would be needed to create something the size of the Grey College, and where did Teclis get that from?
 
Lightwhispers said:
-Chance to have her hat stolen in the presence of Tzeentchian sorcery. 🤠


So, I have realized we have different interpretations of what the option for mentioning the Greater Daemon to the College involves.
-You think it is Mathilde saying "I don't trust myself to deal with temptation".
-I think it's Mathilde saying "I have confirmation that a Greater Daemon is targeting me, and so communications and such need enhanced scrutiny to ensure they aren't tampered with". Because I do not agree with your presumption that the College is taking the maximul level of precautions they can take.

@Boney - which of us is closer to what the vote means?
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Mathilde considers the fact that the College will trust her less as a result of her telling them about the daemon a a certainty, and also that this loss of trust may be impossible to ever recover from. This is to the degree that telling them about the daemon might collapse the Waystone Project.

If your interpretation was the case, why would she believe that? She knows the culture and expectations of her fellow Grey Lord Magisters so it should be our best guide to how they'd interpret and respond to Mathilde telling them this.

Given Mathilde knows telling them about the daemon will make them trust her less, her doing so is her deliberately asking for it to happen with full knowledge of the potential consequences.
 
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Alratan said:
Mathilde considers the fact that the College will trust her less as a result of her telling them about the daemon a a certainty, and also that this loss of trust may be impossible to ever recover from. This is to the degree that telling them about the daemon might collapse the Waystone Project.

If your interpretation was the case, why would she believe that? She knows the culture and expectations of her fellow Grey Lord Magisters so it should be our best guide to how they'd interpret and respond to Mathilde telling them this.
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Because Mathilde still has massive trust issues in some ways and consistently underestimates how much trust her previous actions have won from people.

I'm not saying she's wrong here, but she has a very real history of presuming people will distrust her even when they won't. Probably something to do with her parents nearly having her burned at the stake.
 
Wiggy said:
Well. Getting caught up with the thread has been an ordeal.

Lots of people saying that the only reason to mention the demon is because we want them to trust us less and, that seems highly dependent on framing? Like, if we just roll in and go, 'hey, wanted to let you know I saw a lord of change, it said some interesting stuff about possible everchosen coming, later.' That is kinda sus, yeah. If we go, 'Hey, an experiment of mine made a tiny liminal realm, apparently greater demons can burrow into those, any advice on preventing a recurrence Algard, guy who I know has spent his entire life studying liminal realms and probably knows the most about the one we are currently in?' I feel like that would give the greater demon context more purpose. I guess a lot of people want to keep liminal stuff secret until we can drop the av book, but I'm not too concerned about it personally.

[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening

[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
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I agree, there are good ways to present it and ways that even a bad presentation will be salvaged by a good reaction, but both of those will be rolls. Just look at the Mork stuff only now it's chaos and there is no Gunnars to save us in Aldorf.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
So a third of a gallon of AV creates a liminal realm about 2 cubic meters in size.

How much AV would be needed to create something the size of the Grey College, and where did Teclis get that from?
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It's possible that Teclis used another method to create it. I think people would have noticed if Teclis was running around with several tons worth of the stuff, so he probably used Qaysh. Concerning the origin of such a quantity, I imagine the Asur have a way to reliably produce it. Maybe some kind of naturally occurring portals to the Warp, like the one in Laurelorn?
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Because Mathilde still has massive trust issues in some ways and consistently underestimates how much trust her previous actions have won from people.

I'm not saying she's wrong here, but she has a very real history of presuming people will distrust her even when they won't. Probably something to do with her parents nearly having her burned at the stake.
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I believe Mathilde is still in a vastly better place to know how her peers in the Grey College will react to her telling her this. They also were brought up as magically talented children recruited young into the Grey College from an Empire that hated them and indoctrinated in paranoia and information security from a young age. We should not discount the predictions of the expert on them in favour of our own hopes.

Mathilde also doesn't demonstrate major trust issues, she's remarkably well adjusted considering her history and position. Keeping secrets, including from her nominal superiors and friends is literally part of her job that she was trained for. Doing so is not her having trust issues but demonstrating basic information security skills.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
So a third of a gallon of AV creates a liminal realm about 2 cubic meters in size.

How much AV would be needed to create something the size of the Grey College, and where did Teclis get that from?
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Neolithic farmer: *learns how to build mudbrick walls*: ...
Same farmer, time traveling: *sees Empire State Building* I wonder where the builders got all the dirt and water for this :V

Just because it is a way to make a Liminal realm does not mean it's the only way or the one Teclis used.
 
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There may be a high magic method of creating AV equivalent, or drawing it directly from the aether.
We have found one method of making orbs of sorcery and liminal realms, but i wouldn ot be surprised if there were safer and/or less resource intensive methods to them.
 
Alratan said:
I believe Mathilde is still in a vastly better place to know how her peers in the Grey College will react to her telling her this. They also were brought up as magically talented children recruited young into the Grey College from an Empire that hated them and indoctrinated in paranoia and information security from a young age. We should not discount the predictions of the expert on them in favour of our own hopes.
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It's also based on everything we've ever seen on how the Grey College actually treats daemon and Chaos related stuff.

Alratan said:
Mathilde also doesn't demonstrate major trust issues, she's remarkably well adjusted considering her history and position. Keeping secrets, including from her nominal superiors and friends is literally part of her job that she was trained for. Doing so is not her having trust issues but demonstrating basic information security skills.
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Mathilde is indeed surprisingly well adjusted and has trust issues only in very specific areas. Specifically this one: The idea that people trust her is intuitively weird for Mathilde and she never quite believes it. She's fine at trusting others, but the idea that they trust her? That she has a mental blind spot about. She's probably mostly overcome that blind spot with Pan and a few others, but it's still very much in evidence when she deals with most people.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
It's also based on everything we've ever seen on how the Grey College actually treats daemon and Chaos related stuff.



Mathilde is indeed surprisingly well adjusted and has trust issues only in very specific areas. Specifically this one: The idea that people trust her is intuitively weird for Mathilde and she never quite believes it. She's fine at trusting others, but the idea that they trust her? That she has a mental blind spot about. She's probably mostly overcome that blind spot with Pan and a few others, but it's still very much in evidence when she deals with most people.
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Yes, we've seen their concerns about Chaos. Algard literally told us that the Grey College was worried about Tzeentch playing the long game to subvert it, and that one of the things he was specifically wary of was an over-competent subordinate. Mathilde is now giving him an extra reason to be worried she's that exact kind of problem. He also made it clear that subversion didn't have to be deliberate or conscious, so the fact that Mathilde is volunteering this information provides no reassurance.

Mathilde knows she is trusted and acts on that all the time. That's why she makes executive decisions based on her own judgement. It's why she was comfortable taking command of the final battles for Karak Eight Peaks. She's grown very comfortable being in a position of trust and exercising the authority that comes with it.

That's probably part of why she can be so comfortable keeping so many secrets, because she knows she's trusted to make those judgements about what needs to be kept secret and when.
 
Agent X20 said:
The thought occurs that we have discovered important safe storage information about AV
-note to Thorek and future users of AV never ever use a third of a gallon or more at once
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Factoring in warnings regarding these results specifically would be like specifying in the safe storage instructions of an explosive that you shouldn't put it in a Finnish hydraulic press. Yes, that's true, you shouldn't, but it's not the sort of thing one explicitly spells out. The chances of someone doing that under normal circumstances are zero, and the chances of someone doing that if you explicitly forbid it are slightly greater than zero.

Lightwhispers said:
So, I have realized we have different interpretations of what the option for mentioning the Greater Daemon to the College involves.
-You think it is Mathilde saying "I don't trust myself to deal with temptation".
-I think it's Mathilde saying "I have confirmation that a Greater Daemon is targeting me, and so communications and such need enhanced scrutiny to ensure they aren't tampered with". Because I do not agree with your presumption that the College is taking the maximul level of precautions they can take.

@Boney - which of us is closer to what the vote means?
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Neither. Reporting that Mathilde has been in contact with a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch means reporting that she has been in contact with a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch. There are no standard responses or automatic implications in that message because that sort of thing is an enormous vulnerability to Tzeentchian shenanigans, the matter is brought to the attention of those higher in the heirarchy so they can decide whether and what to do about it.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Mathilde is indeed surprisingly well adjusted and has trust issues only in very specific areas. Specifically this one: The idea that people trust her is intuitively weird for Mathilde and she never quite believes it. She's fine at trusting others, but the idea that they trust her? That she has a mental blind spot about. She's probably mostly overcome that blind spot with Pan and a few others, but it's still very much in evidence when she deals with most people.
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So just to be clear, you think it is all over reacting and there is no possibility of the Grey College taking this badly? The reason I am asking this is that the very argument you make about Mathilde's insecurity means that if she does trust them and they take it badly it will be all the more devastating, it will be proof that 'no they do not trust you even when you show them trust'
 
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Everytime the thread mentions the EverMammoth, I get reminded of the (Father of?) Mammoths that appeared in RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR, and now I think the two are the same.
 
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