Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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The Empire is encircled by a massive, Chaos controlled, beastman infested forest. If proximity to Chaos was a concern, we should have gone to Bretonnia or Telia. Kislev isn't less safe than the Empire just because it's a few hundred miles closer to the Wastes.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
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- He
It definitely is. Closer to the Wastes means more corruption, demons are easier to summon, the Four can better manifest their influence.
And we're not in the Empire, we're in Laurelorn. An magical forest full of guérilla elves who know it like their pocket, with archmages older than the White Tower who can make a dwarf throng from the Golden Age just disappear. Doing that to an army of modern dwarfs would already be a very impressive feat, but the fact that the Grey Lords could do so when the dwarfs were at the height of their power and skills is breathtaking. That's a much more secure location than Kislev, or even the Empire.
And from an infiltration perspective, elvish Choas cultists are nearly unheard off outside of Nagaroth and a few in Ulthuan, but I've always gotten the impression it wasn't as prevalent as in human lands. And it would be only one out of 4 gods, so Laurelorn is still better than the Empire proper and Kislev in that regard too.
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Codex
Fantasy Addict
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It is a fact that Kislev is less safe than the Empire. That's why, as Boney put it:
It is a crime to not fight in Kislev if you're a man.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
"Get me all the books they have."
"Wait, wait. I'm worried what you just heard was 'Get me a lot of books.' What I said was, get me all the books they have."
- Location
- Sweden
Does this mean divine shrooms might be a possibility? Using the Gambler while trying to make it Ranald soaked sounds like an amazing proof of concept opportunity!
To do this we'd need to convert AV into Ranaldian energy using the Coin and then feed it to the mushrooms, and I think we've locked out any experimentation with AV and divinity.
So what do people think these might be? Vampire smut? Benedicta's personal diary? Prayer books to Morr? There's ten books, and they must have been important or special to be kept in such a good condition.
Benedicta was a dreamwalker, right? Maybe it's a dream journal, or books on omens and prophecies? Which would be appropriate, considering who pointed us in this direction.
Apparitions would probably be the way to go for that, but I have hopes on learning to control our shadow may have benefits along those lines.
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Codex
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Benedicta was a former mercenary and the sole survivor of her company against a Necromancer, who was then plagued by dreams and used fire as her favored weapon, giving her the Radiant title. She went to Sylvania as a result of her prophetic visions, which led to her turning. That's about all that I know about her specifically. The books could be a journal, diary, records of her time as a mercenary, books she liked back when she was mortal etc. The sky's the limit.
Knowing Boney he'd probably roll using a set of options he crafted based on what is known of her.
- Location
- Utrecht
I doubt it.
Morr is the one sending the visions, and he is also quite opposed to the undead. So i doubt he was still sending her visions.
Especially considering she may her end at the hands of another dreamwalker.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think we can safely rule out anything too old- Benedicta wasn't a vampire for very long, I don't think she would have had the authority to get Nehekharan texts or the like.
Worst case scenario I think is that they're primers on Necromancy, I think best case scenario is Morr books.
- Location
- Australia
Argh, I'm a moron. Yes, Crypt Horrors is what I meant.
I want to preface my spaghetti by saying that this isn't meant as a 'well, actually' trumping or trying to get you to change things; I'm genuinely curious as to your thoughts and theories.
All quotes from the Crypt Horror section, Vampire Counts, 8th Ed. Dunno if that's what you're using as well, I know GW uses nigh-identical text across various editions and box text, yet also randomly adds and subtracts details across products, which kind of annoys me both coming and going.
Apologies if - or more likely when - I'm writing stuff you're already well aware of.
Oh for sure, some Vampire Lines/Variants consume flesh, pretty much all ones that lean more to beefcake than magic - wouldn't surprise me if Vargheists did, and Strigoi in some editions are said to eat corpses as well as merely drinking their rotted blood.
It's just that the only Crypt Horror lore I recalled focusing on blood specifically was their creation.
"In order to create a Crypt Horror, a Vampire must open his veins to a Ghoul and allow it to gulp down his precious blood - a pale bastardisation of the Dark Kiss - an act that is reviled by those who count themselves amongst the elite of Sylvanian society.
...
Once a Crypt Ghoul has drunk the blood of a Vampire, its eyes turn red and it goes into a killing frenzy. It pulls down weaker members of its own pack, dragging its screeching prey into an open grave or a shattered tomb in order to consume its gruesome feast undisturbed. Finishing its cannibalistic orgy with a smacking of lips, the swollen Ghoul will crawl back to its waiting master, hoping for another draught of vampiric blood. By the coming of the next full moon, the new Crypt Horror will have grown to several times its initial size and ferocity."
So that's a fair reason to call them Vampires, yet it is also specifically called out as a pale echo, particularly once the aspects below are considered.
Still weird, no matter the end result, that it would take multiple - if an unknown number of - drinks to create, when the Dark Kiss requires only one.
I believe they're fluffed as alive, still;
"Crypt Ghouls are counted amongst the lowliest of all Vampiric servants; after all, they lack even the common decency to be properly dead.
...
Crypt Horrors provide a tangible benefit to their Strigoi masters. True Undead can be warded away from grave-haunts by sacred sigils and priests of Morr, and Crypt Ghouls are too cowardly to mount a full-scale assault on such a place. Hence, Strigoi Ghoul Kings will create Crypt Horrors whenever they need to smash through such defences. Crypt Horrors are neither living nor truly dead, and as the call of Morr's realm pulls at what remains of their souls, they vent their rage upon the crypt-gardens of the god of death."
"Though the Crypt Horror's freakish metabolism will soon drive the creature's body to consume itself, in the meantime, the fiend's constitution is such that it can reknit even the most horrific wound with an effort of will."
Still sounds like they're on a timer, to me, but it's debatable for sure.
Man, I wish GW was more coherent and consistent, I'd love to know what differentiates Varghulfs and Vargheists other than the method to get to that point, does Vargheists being controllable mean weaker Vampires can be as well, what effect diet has as you move along the Strigoi-Varghulf-Vargheist-Horror range...
White Wolf was better in a huge amount of ways, even if it still had its unexplained weird shit and own brand contractual grimderp.
- Location
- Sweden
That makes me sad to hear.
I love seeing Mathilde make something whacky new nobody thought possible.
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Codex
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That was never really the goal for GW. That kind of worldbuilding might be fun to us, but they weren't selling Silmarillion level detail books. They wanted to sell models, and all that mattered was that Varghulfs and Vargheists looked different and they were sold as different models.
If you want there to be a clearer difference, the two creatures are separated in Age of Sigmar. Varghulf Courtiers are Heros in Flesh-Eater Courts (Ghoul Army) armies and Vargheists are an elite unit in Soulblight Gravelords (Vampire Army).
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Willingness of the change maybe?
Vargheists are starved to the point of insanity, Varghulfs give into their bestial nature and gorge themselves on everything. I imagine the two ways to insanity have different flavours of results.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
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- He/They
It suggests that perhaps Vampirism really does only work properly on humans - Ghouls being close enough for the effects of the elixir to still do something but struggling to match what it does to true humans.
Then again, the problem could also be that Ghouls are less ensouled than regular humans, having more animalistic minds, and therefore vampirism (with its direct connection to the power of the soul) struggles for entirely non-biological reasons.
The quote you provided says that they're not alive, I've bolded the relevant bit.
It might be as simple as needing more blood to brute force a transformation because ghouls are no longer baseline humans, having already undergone a Dhar-induced transformation.
I'd missed that part, but the phrase 'neither living nor truly dead' screams Vampire or Vampire-adjacent to me. If any other bloodline created them there'd be a lot more ambiguity in that it'd be very easy to argue that they might be some Frankensteinian Rat Ogre equivalent, but that they're created by the Strigoi out of nothing but blood and cannibalism means that it seems like the only reason they're not categorized as a Vampire is that the other Vampires clutch their pearls about it.
Fell Bats are similar, as their 6th Edition lore has them explicitly not having the Alive special rule, feeding on blood, and speculated to have been created by bats drinking Vampiric blood.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Iirc the main difference is wings?
- Location
- The internet
Its also possible thst what differentiates a "true" vampire from just a bloodsucker is the ability to be revived hundreds of years later with a ritual. If they are a person who dies when they are killed, they don't qualify.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Has anyone tried with crypt horrors?
Codex
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Crypt Horrors are an 8th Edition unit. The setting died shortly therafter. There wasn't much time to do anything with them before the transition to AoS, where they serve a different role.