- Location
- Utrecht
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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I don't dislike him. His death was simply too important to the story. It was powerful, evocative and central to the narrative and Mathilde's character, and the Quest turned out the better for it. The Stirland Arc was not bad by any means, but I enjoyed everything after it far more, which is why I usually start my rereads at the beginning of the K8P Expedition. I also really like Roswita and her character arc and it's highly doubtful we would have gotten that without Abelhelm's death.HOW COULD YOU BE SO CRUEL!
There's also the whole crush thing, which I will refrain from commenting on overmuch aside from me having opinions on it.
Mathilde before the battle of Drakenhof reads as quite a young person—inexperienced, eager to please, a little bit childish, and very lacking in confidence. Mathlide after Drakenhof and her promotion to magister is older, wiser, and both more capable and more confident, and I find her a more interesting and nuanced character.
She's still the same person, just... more developed into being her own person. I think Abelhelm overshadowed Mathilde in many ways, whilst Belegar very much didn't. Abel was also our boss, whilst Belegar is our friend, and I find that I like that dynamic more.
She's still the same person, just... more developed into being her own person. I think Abelhelm overshadowed Mathilde in many ways, whilst Belegar very much didn't. Abel was also our boss, whilst Belegar is our friend, and I find that I like that dynamic more.
- Location
- USA
Job-wise, Belegar gave Mathilde a much longer leash, even before she got the Loremaster title hung on her. "General troubleshooter" is vague and nebulous, while "spymistress" is a very clear remit, with sharply defined limits on what she can and can't (or, at the very least, shouldn't) do.
Codex
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- She/Her
Abelhelm was also solidly placed in a mentor role, with him giving her advice and treating her like a student with her learning from him. The most memorable scenes that I remember with Abelhelm are the ones where he's teaching or lecturing her on something, like that one time with the organisation proposal, or that one time he told her that she was one of the strongest people in Stirland and that she should act like it. Mathilde even had constant scenes where she would debrief him in private and they would discuss things and how she would go about things.
Belegar on the other hand seemed to be situation where he placed the utmost trust and faith in her and he never saw fit to give her advice. He was her boss, but he didn't act like it most of the time aside from choosing which job she would go for. In fact, most of the memorable scenes between the two of them involve Belegar and Mathilde having conversations with each other or Mathilde giving Belegar advice. The most recent and prominent being the one where she gave him advice over handling his fear of disappointing his children if he had any.
I think a good way to describe it is that Abelhelm changed Mathilde and shaped her journey into becoming who she is now, but with Belegar, Mathilde helped shape who he became and changed him to the person that he now is.
- Location
- the Republic
- Pronouns
- He/They
If Mathilde was a real person and my friend, I would devoutly wish that Abelhelm hadn't died to spare her all that grief and upheaval. It was SO SAD. I was aghast the first time I read through the quest (in a good way).
But as a reader of a story, it was absolutely prime stuff, a perfect 90-degree turn in the narrative, and I wouldn't give it up for anything.
But as a reader of a story, it was absolutely prime stuff, a perfect 90-degree turn in the narrative, and I wouldn't give it up for anything.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Drakenhof is fascinating to reread. It's a fantastic example of how a string of bad rolls can feel like an actual preordained narrative. The doomed charge, trying desperately to hold back the enemy horde, being rescued by the dwarves. Kasmir being unable to heal Abelhelm, then the Light Magister blowing himself up in a horrific miscast, then Kasmir failing to heal again, then Mathilde desperately praying and failing to really do anything. And even then there was a final roll to determine whether Abelhelm would live or die.
Then, Hexensohn died meddling with... something, that we still don't know about. Markus died trying to take the town hall.
It all lent this feel that Sylvania really is cursed, reaching out through the screen and cursing the dice with bad luck too. And that only with cannons and dwarven artifice and a very old dragon, one of the greatest strongholds of that curse was decimated.
Honestly, that's kinda why I don't entirely like Gotrek dying during the KD expedition, and how in the Skull River ambush there was a 1 in 100 chance of instantly dying due to using Substance of Shadow - it's just not terribly narratively satisfying to die due to random chance so suddenly, and 1 in 100 chances are a lot more common than you'd think. If Mathilde had died to that Substance of Shadow and the quest ended right there, I'd think it would have been a real waste.
Then, Hexensohn died meddling with... something, that we still don't know about. Markus died trying to take the town hall.
It all lent this feel that Sylvania really is cursed, reaching out through the screen and cursing the dice with bad luck too. And that only with cannons and dwarven artifice and a very old dragon, one of the greatest strongholds of that curse was decimated.
Honestly, that's kinda why I don't entirely like Gotrek dying during the KD expedition, and how in the Skull River ambush there was a 1 in 100 chance of instantly dying due to using Substance of Shadow - it's just not terribly narratively satisfying to die due to random chance so suddenly, and 1 in 100 chances are a lot more common than you'd think. If Mathilde had died to that Substance of Shadow and the quest ended right there, I'd think it would have been a real waste.
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- Location
- Australia
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
request for a small clarification I was never certain on, is this saying:
"Clan Redbeard of Karak Kadrin watched the mountains to [Karak Kadrin's] north, and Clan Grimsteel of Karak Vlag watched [the mountains] to [Karak Vlag's] south."?
- Location
- Aotearoa
That's certainly my interpretation. Meaning Redbeard had to stretch their range further north when Vlag and Grimsteel disappeared.
- Location
- Australia
So I remembered that Transformation of Kadon let you turn into a Great Fire Dragon, which made me wanna go check the books to see if the Amber Order had somehow managed to work with multiple winds, since I remember fire dragons were the Aqshy dragons. Turns out they didn't, it's just a case of bad naming.
From Warhammer 8th edition page 488, we get the stats of Great Fire Dragons:
Which means you've got Great Fire Dragons and you've also got Great Fire Dragons, and they're two very different things. Imperial taxonomists truly have no shame whatsoever.
On an entirely separate note, I found out a neat little thing by happenstance when searching for the info above. Warhammer p477 features Sergov Pfeiffer, a Level 1 Bright Wizard, who's actually in WFRP 4e: Winds of Magic on pages 132-133! In there, he's a journeyman working on a magnum opus spell, Fury of Sigmar. It was a nice surprise to see he was an established character and that he does go on to finish making his spell, since you can cast that spell in the wargame.
Yes. The mountains between Karak Kadrin and Karak Vlag were watched by Redbeard and Grimsteel, which brought them into frequent contact.
Codex
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It's part of Boney's philosophy that he doesn't value a satisfying narrative as much as he does the integrity of the Quest. Gotrek's death was not satisfying at all, but if you think about it, most of Karag Dum was not narratively satisfying. It was a matter of logistics and fighting against the environment rather than actual combat that made the whole thing a struggle. That's because Boney valued making things feel logical and make sense than he did with a satisfying narrative.
The instant death thing with Substance of Shadow was a consequence of the terrifyingly dangerous nature of magic. Magic is not some simple thing that we can just dabble in with no consequences. We were chaincasting a Fiendishly Complex spell in an unknown environment to save hundreds of people individually. Of course there should have been a risk of death, or the integrity of the quest would have taken a hit because apparently chaincasting isn't that dangerous.
A similar thing applies to Gotrek's death. It was a tight turn on the side of a mountain with a gigantic landship. Of course there was a chance that the ground crumbles. It wasn't narratively satisfying, but it wasn't supposed to be either. It's just a consequence of Boney's design philosophy, which I think is pretty solid imo.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Yeah, it makes everything feel more logical and coherent. I also like the fact that Boney rolls for things that make sense. For example, in our duel with Boris we didn't skewer each other despite rolling badly, because there's no chance that 2 elite fighters would fail so badly.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Technically speaking, the chance of instant death was for when Mathilde went through the door- if there was a light on the other end, she'd have had very big problems.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Total Warhammer has been doing this thing for the game 3 map where they slowly reveal more faction start positions.
Not particularly relevant to the thread overall, but today was Greenskins, and there's now a suspiciously Rotgut-shaped hole in the map- Grimgor used to start at Black Crag, but now he's way over past the Dark Lands.
Might come up given that Gorfang is the Warboss that took over after Birdmuncha got iced.
View: https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1544637979897085953?s=20&t=bzkNwJIj6o0kVPWDAK-6Rg
Not particularly relevant to the thread overall, but today was Greenskins, and there's now a suspiciously Rotgut-shaped hole in the map- Grimgor used to start at Black Crag, but now he's way over past the Dark Lands.
Might come up given that Gorfang is the Warboss that took over after Birdmuncha got iced.
View: https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1544637979897085953?s=20&t=bzkNwJIj6o0kVPWDAK-6Rg
- Location
- Utrecht
It looks like you could swim to Ulthuan from Bretonnia.
So much for the great ocean
Codex
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Immortal Empires probably has the capacity to brick your computer if it's lacking. I really don't think it's fair to criticise the squishing.It looks like you could swim to Ulthuan from Bretonnia.
So much for the great ocean
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
If it's a choice between map with stuff on it (land) or map without (ocean), I'll take the former.It looks like you could swim to Ulthuan from Bretonnia.
So much for the great ocean
Droman
𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍
I'd actually love it if Warhammer had Sealanes and an army sent over one would take like, a specific number of turns depending on where it's going.
Codex
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They do in Immortal Empires. It's an advertised feature, with each Sea Lane having a name. The AI can't use it, and it takes a static two turns to traverse any Sea Lane with the exception of Naval expert factions who take one turn, so it's not exactly ideal, but it's functional.
Droman
𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍
I'd do more than 2 turns, I think. Like, 5 turns to get from Ulthuan, Naggarond and Lustria to Cathay, Old World and Southlands. Naval Experts can get over in three turns. I'd pair that with Empire Total War style barriers to travel between specific map sections.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Malice to Boiling route uses the Underworld Sea
Edit: Would it be cool if they added a portal from the Southern Chaos Wastes to the North Wastes, but only Chaos factions can use them?
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