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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Artemis1992 said:
La Maisontaal Abbey existed before in canon I think.
And it did keep a relic of Nagash that various parties were interested in.

It was an abbey of the Lady though, protected by Grail Knights, in my memory?
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La Maisontaal Abbey is one of the oldest lore-bits in Warhammer- Kemmler's attack on it was a story battle back in the 80s.
 
I have two questions.

First, what are the Eonir and dwarves trading away to each other? I remember the dwarves are selling marble, but that's it. Is currency being exchanged?

Second, I remember hearing or reading about some canon thing where a dwarf army is on the march and they've got an Imperial wizard attache, and that army gets attacked by Neferata or Morathi or someone else. Does anyone know what incident this is and what the source is?
 
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Andres said:
First, what are the Eonir and dwarves trading away to each other? I remember the dwarves are selling marble, but that's it. Is currency being exchanged?
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There's also trade in Ingots and runed goods being planned. The Eonir are paying in coin, currently from their own deep coffers but in the long run it'll probably be Empire coin from selling Elven luxuries and undercutting Marienburg, but there's potential for trading rare wood and high-quality leather with the Dwarves.
 
Boney said:
I was Discordianists back in the day. I read it early for the funnies and moved on, but then when I was exploring philosophies I kept finding that they kept saying a thousand boring words to dance around something that the Principia nailed in a pithy one-liner. The section on psycho-metaphyics was the cornerstone for my belief in the inherent value of diverse perspectives.
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Just what I needed, another rabbit hole to get lost down!
Thanks for adding to my stack, you heartless monster.
 
Boney said:
but in the long run it'll probably be Empire coin from selling Elven luxuries and undercutting Marienburg
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It'd be nice (to modern sensibilities anyway) if there was a structured way for some of that money to get directly intro the hands of the underemployed artisans of the Eonir underclass (ideally, Cityborn and Forestborn both). Rather than this trade flow further enriching the Major Houses that are sure to dominate.

…We're probably just a couple-three technological revolutions too early to invent Elftsy.com, right?
 
Alliterate said:
It'd be nice (to modern sensibilities anyway) if there was a structured way for some of that money to get directly intro the hands of the underemployed artisans of the Eonir underclass (ideally, Cityborn and Forestborn both). Rather than this trade flow further enriching the Major Houses that are sure to dominate.

…We're probably just a couple-three technological revolutions too early to invent Elftsy.com, right?
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In theory any of them could stop being city dweller and go sell them directly.
And sooner or later there will be human merchants in Laurelorn (however briefly), or at least their representatives and cargo haulers, that they can trade with directly.
They won't get a full price for their goods, no, but there will be some leeway for foreign currency.
 
Rather sooner than you might think, as Mathilde's Trade And Shipping Mogul Hat is already hanging on a hook in the Major House (literal) she occupies. (Temporarily, while she dons her Engineering, Roading and Canals Hat, to improve the trade routes).

That was also my other half thought, that there might, maybe, be Another EIC Opportunity (TM) here, helping those artisans reach their Empire markets, so to speak.
 
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Agreed.
Though i am thinking that lot of the trade would happen nearer to border, instead of at the capital proper, at least early on.
The period might be anywhere from several years to decades, probably not centuries, though not impossible.
 
Yeah, the Forestborn around the edges already have those opportunities to a degree, as we heard when arriving through the swamp the first time. They're just not awake to the value of the trinkets they leave in exchange for the offerings, for now.
 
I'm not talking of the informal things that have been already happening.
More of somekind of trade outpost at or near the shadow bridge elven side where human merchants will be able to trade with elf merchants who have been given leave to stay and not loose city priviledges.
 
I understand and empathize with the impulse, but you're trying to solve a problem that hasn't been invented yet. There's no capitalism because there's no wildly expensive capital goods. The basic unit of industry here is not a massive factory you need to have a top hat and a monocle to afford, it's an artisan with hand tools. The only reason you can't call it cottage industry is because Tor Lithanel is too densely populated for cottages. Insula industry? So there will be big money for the people with the money and influence to be middle men, but it's going to be a slice of the pie, not the entire pie with a few crumbs going to the worker. Anyone with the relevant skillset is going to be able to make life-changing amounts of money if they put in the work, because there's no big expensive bottleneck stopping anyone with the skills and a loaded tool belt from bypassing any middle man that tries to play silly buggers.
 
Boney said:
I understand and empathize with the impulse, but you're trying to solve a problem that hasn't been invented yet. There's no capitalism because there's no wildly expensive capital goods. The basic unit of industry here is not a massive factory you need to have a top hat and a monocle to afford, it's an artisan with hand tools. The only reason you can't call it cottage industry is because Tor Lithanel is too densely populated for cottages. Insula industry? So there will be big money for the people with the money and influence to be middle men, but it's going to be a slice of the pie, not the entire pie with a few crumbs going to the worker. Anyone with the relevant skillset is going to be able to make life-changing amounts of money if they put in the work, because there's no big expensive bottleneck stopping anyone with the skills and a loaded tool belt from bypassing any middle man that tries to play silly buggers.
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The modern mind cannot comprehend world without capitalism.

#Thisgavemedepression
 
Thinking about the subject now, but wouldn't industrialization itself be a much more.... Human-friendly process in WHF? Because I absolutely cannot imagine Elves industrializing given their culture, way I'd life and resistance to change. Ironically, despite their well deserved reputation for stubbornness, I could see dawi doing so since they can innovate, with the only problem that they'd take forever to do so and to innovate.

Oh and of course, skaven too. They actually out-industrialize humans, thinking about it. It's kind of crazy because the setting seems to be on the almost precipice of an industrial age, given existing technologies. All the necessary pieces, up to and including steam engines, are already there.

Or are parts of the empire/karaz ankor already fully industrialized with machine production and production lines and I don't know about it?
 
Ohno said:
Thinking about the subject now, but wouldn't industrialization itself be a much more.... Human-friendly process in WHF? Because I absolutely cannot imagine Elves industrializing given their culture, way I'd life and resistance to change. Ironically, despite their well deserved reputation for stubbornness, I could see dawi doing so since they can innovate, with the only problem that they'd take forever to do so and to innovate.

Oh and of course, skaven too. They actually out-industrialize humans, thinking about it. It's kind of crazy because the setting seems to be on the almost precipice of an industrial age, given existing technologies. All the necessary pieces, up to and including steam engines, are already there.

Or are parts of the empire/karaz ankor already fully industrialized with machine production and production lines and I don't know about it?
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Well, we have steam engines. Nuln has plenty of foundries and such along the river, I imagine they have plenty of machines powered by waterwheels.

We don't have coal, so a steam engine powering a factory is going to be tricky to manage, even if the steam engines are good enough yet, which they might not be.

(On the other hand, a bit of Aqshy and you can skip the coal entirely…)
 
Ohno said:
Or are parts of the empire/karaz ankor already fully industrialized with machine production and production lines and I don't know about it?
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There are buildings called 'factories' where standardized goods are mass produced on assembly lines, but machines aren't reliable or precise enough to be a part of the process so every step of it has to be by hand. That means it doesn't actually have many advantages over artisanry except for a few specific niches, like outfitting state troops.
 
Boney said:
There are buildings called 'factories' where standardized goods are mass produced on assembly lines, but machines aren't reliable or precise enough to be a part of the process so every step of it has to be by hand. That means it doesn't actually have many advantages over artisanry except for a few specific niches, like outfitting state troops.
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God I love Warhammer. There are parts of it that make no sense, but the best parts of it make an advanced amount of sense. The setting appreciates rivers! The Empire's internal borders are grotesque!
 
Andres said:
God I love Warhammer. There are parts of it that make no sense, but the best parts of it make an advanced amount of sense. The setting appreciates rivers! The Empire's internal borders are grotesque!
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Ancient Rome had factories operating on river power.
Nothing new here.
But yes, Warhammer Fantasy can, when it cares to, make lot of sense.
 
The thing I'm interested in is how much of a push/pull factor will be placed on the elven artisans to move to the empire.

Like, will there be enough of a pull (money, personal standard of life etc) to move their families to an empire city over staying.

I don't think the first order of artisans will, they will get the best of both worlds, money from the empire and living in the elf city.

But those that don't get in on the action in time might be tempted.
 
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